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Old 03-14-2014, 03:37 PM   #951
Dratsum
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Wow - I'm doing SM this year for the first time - I started by reading the first few pages at the beginning of this thread, then jumped to the end. After four years, still talking about Fender Braces.
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Old 03-18-2014, 10:43 AM   #952
*Ulimited*
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http://www.licmotorsports.com/produc...i_lic-08207412

SM Legal?

I feel like the rule book contradicts itself one paragraph to the next, uless im just reading this wrong?

E. Suspension components are unrestricted as long as they use the
original attachment points. For the purposes of this rule, "suspension"
is defined as any item that is designed to move when a wheel
is deflected vertically. This includes shocks/struts, control arms,
steering knuckles, uprights, etc., but not tie rods, steering racks, and
subframes. In addition, shock absorber/strut upper mounts are to be
considered suspension components.

F. Steering modifications are permitted as follows:
1. Steering components, including the steering rack and/or box, tie
rods
, idler arms, power assist devices, and related components
may be replaced, added, moved, or removed. The steering column
within the passenger compartment is specifically excluded
from this allowance. This does not permit removal or modification
of column-mounted accessories. Wheel-mounted electrical
switches such as those for the horn, radio, cruise control, or shifter
may be relocated and/or replaced, or eliminated.
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Old 03-18-2014, 10:53 AM   #953
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Yes, legal.
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Old 03-18-2014, 10:57 AM   #954
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Nice! Now I just have to figure out a rear roll center solution which doesn't involve an aftermarket subframe. Originally TSSFAB had told me he could make me a custom rear knuckle with the pivot point on the outside but now he is saying he doesnt have the time unless I get together a bunch of people who want them..

Any Other Street Mod guys looking for a rear rollcenter fix?
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Old 03-18-2014, 11:32 AM   #955
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *Ulimited* View Post
Nice! Now I just have to figure out a rear roll center solution which doesn't involve an aftermarket subframe. Originally TSSFAB had told me he could make me a custom rear knuckle with the pivot point on the outside but now he is saying he doesnt have the time unless I get together a bunch of people who want them..

Any Other Street Mod guys looking for a rear rollcenter fix?
I made my own version of what's above (which is legal like Leafy said) for a lot less as well by the way. Looking at their design, they basically copied the 6-gun extenders, and then spaced the tie rod end 1.5" down to match with a welded in support. You can still find the extenders for a few hundred and then buy your own materials to make the tie rod stuff.

Regarding the rear, you can modify the knuckle a few ways, but I'm not convinced yet that you want to. Using the bad geometry of lowering it to induce rotation in low speed situations while relying on aero to keep things in check in high speed situations seems to work well. There are some bar settings in there as well to get it right too. I have sketched a few designs out to see what would work, and I think it'd be relatively easy with a few hours of cutting and welding.

Last edited by subydude; 03-18-2014 at 11:37 AM.
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Old 03-18-2014, 12:38 PM   #956
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I used to run the GT spec roll center kit up front which is pretty much the same thing as the six gun. I had issue with the ball joints actually leveraging themselves out of the knuckle. They ended up egging out the material on the upright and no matter how hard I'd tighten them they would wiggle out again. I had to replace the front knuckles because of this. I like how LICs piece use a stock ball joint and gains the height with a fixed piece they weld in.

Interesting theory on the rear though I never thought of it that way. I'd love to see what you come up with.
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Old 03-18-2014, 12:49 PM   #957
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Quote:
Originally Posted by *Ulimited* View Post
I used to run the GT spec roll center kit up front which is pretty much the same thing as the six gun. I had issue with the ball joints actually leveraging themselves out of the knuckle. They ended up egging out the material on the upright and no matter how hard I'd tighten them they would wiggle out again. I had to replace the front knuckles because of this. I like how LICs piece use a stock ball joint and gains the height with a fixed piece they weld in.

Interesting theory on the rear though I never thought of it that way. I’d love to see what you come up with.
The 6-gun pieces are an insert that goes into the knuckle, and then a stock ball joint that goes into that. The only difference I can see is LIC welds the insert into the knuckle vs using the stock pinch bolt style of the 6-gun. Otherwise, both LIC and 6-gun do it "right" by moving the actual pivot point of the ball joint vs just extending the lever arm while leaving the pivot point in the knuckle.

I can't give out all the secrets The best I can say is the solution lies in using diffs, arms, bars, and aero together. And this is still a "so far" comment. There may come a point where I figure out that I need more rear grip, in which case I'd build in better geometry.
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Old 03-19-2014, 07:25 PM   #958
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I have the whiteline kit...which is exactly like the ones you guys are talking about. Havn't had any issues with it so far, ball joints seem to be holding up well without any wierdness.

Only thing i don't like about the whiteline kit is that it's not a a lot of correction. My car isn't lowered that much, so it works.
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Old 04-28-2014, 07:03 PM   #959
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I didn't see anything in the rules mentioning dates on harnesses. Are you allowed to run an expired harness?
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Old 04-28-2014, 07:10 PM   #960
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Yes, and expired seats.
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Old 04-28-2014, 07:50 PM   #961
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Thanks. I thought so, but better to check just in case.
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Old 04-29-2014, 10:12 AM   #962
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I'm pretty sure the only thing they check dates on for Solo is your helmet.
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Old 05-26-2014, 11:19 AM   #963
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So a bit of an update from me... I've finally had a chance to run my GR STi over the last week, sticking with street tires for local events.

Torque is great with stock turbo, but it'll need to breath a bit more once I get on some bigger concrete. As expected, I'm dealing with some wheel hop and power on understeer in the tighter corners (yeah, I know I need a real diff). I'm starting with square 315/30-18s and 900/900 lbs spring setup with oem front bar and 22mm rear on soft. By my calcs I wanted to start with 35% front sway roll stiffness and 40% rear. Slaloms are good, but would like to find a bit more front grip (relative to rear). I wanted initially to be at 40-45% rear bar roll stiffness, but I may also test a couple different extreme setups, including a high camber / high spring rate setup in the rear, just to see how it reacts. I also have the roll center right at ground level by my calcs, but I may try to lower it some more and see if I can handle the weird below ground feeling. Ultimately if it's faster, that's the "best" setup.

While playing with different setup options, I need to save some pennies to get a rear diff, add a front splitter and lighter front hood to drop another ~40 lbs.

Last edited by senna1a; 05-26-2014 at 11:26 AM.
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Old 06-05-2014, 08:02 PM   #964
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hey guys Im new to Autocross and Ive raced twice in SM cause thats where they put me. Im running a 2011 wrx with stage 2, IC, BPV, EBCS along with sways and endlinks. Im on the stock wheels with ****ty all seasons and Im looking for a setup for summer that will also be good in autocross.

Im looking between the enkei rpf1 in 17x8 vs 17x9 and Im wondering if I would lose performance going with the 17x9 and what offset I should go with in the 17x9 so I dont get any rub. I like the look of the 17x9 better because of the way the tire dish seems flatter and more set in but Im not willing to sacrifice a lot of performance for what I think is a bit better of a look. I was thinking of doing 245/40 tires on the 17x8 and 255/40 on the 17x9. I talked to a guy that told me that between the extreme performance summer tires he thought the RE11 was the best when it comes to daily driving even tho u sacrifice some performance. Since its my daily driver I dont wanna go with tires that will be awesome for autocross but be super annoying to daily drive. Suggestions?
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Old 06-05-2014, 09:53 PM   #965
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EAghost3 View Post
hey guys Im new to Autocross and Ive raced twice in SM cause thats where they put me. Im running a 2011 wrx with stage 2, IC, BPV, EBCS along with sways and endlinks. Im on the stock wheels with ****ty all seasons and Im looking for a setup for summer that will also be good in autocross.

Im looking between the enkei rpf1 in 17x8 vs 17x9 and Im wondering if I would lose performance going with the 17x9 and what offset I should go with in the 17x9 so I dont get any rub. I like the look of the 17x9 better because of the way the tire dish seems flatter and more set in but Im not willing to sacrifice a lot of performance for what I think is a bit better of a look. I was thinking of doing 245/40 tires on the 17x8 and 255/40 on the 17x9. I talked to a guy that told me that between the extreme performance summer tires he thought the RE11 was the best when it comes to daily driving even tho u sacrifice some performance. Since its my daily driver I dont wanna go with tires that will be awesome for autocross but be super annoying to daily drive. Suggestions?
Keep your stock/current wheels and leave your all seasons on them, then get a set of wheels and tires to race on and switch out between the sets for races.

Run as much tire as the rules and your fenders allow (sm allows slicks but that is a whole other level of commitment).
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Old 06-05-2014, 10:17 PM   #966
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ok so 17x9 or 17x8? Looking to run street tires, I hate my all seasons so much I will probably goto summer/autox tires and winters later. Cant decide on 17x9 vs 17x8
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Old 06-05-2014, 10:34 PM   #967
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17x9 and I am partial to the Dunlop z2, but they are getting tough to find since they have been discontinued in preparation for the new star spec version. Hankook rs3 are the next best street tire and you should be able to fit 265-40-17 without fender rolling.
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Old 06-05-2014, 11:26 PM   #968
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wider is better. For street tires I'd be considering 18x11s and 275 or larger RS3s if you're not afraid of your sawsall.
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Old 06-06-2014, 08:17 AM   #969
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EAghost3 View Post
hey guys Im new to Autocross and Ive raced twice in SM cause thats where they put me. Im running a 2011 wrx with stage 2, IC, BPV, EBCS along with sways and endlinks. Im on the stock wheels with ****ty all seasons and Im looking for a setup for summer that will also be good in autocross.

Im looking between the enkei rpf1 in 17x8 vs 17x9 and Im wondering if I would lose performance going with the 17x9 and what offset I should go with in the 17x9 so I dont get any rub. I like the look of the 17x9 better because of the way the tire dish seems flatter and more set in but Im not willing to sacrifice a lot of performance for what I think is a bit better of a look. I was thinking of doing 245/40 tires on the 17x8 and 255/40 on the 17x9. I talked to a guy that told me that between the extreme performance summer tires he thought the RE11 was the best when it comes to daily driving even tho u sacrifice some performance. Since its my daily driver I dont wanna go with tires that will be awesome for autocross but be super annoying to daily drive. Suggestions?
17x9 RPF1's with 255 Dunlop ZII's or RS3 V2's if you don't want to f with your fenders. Seriously. That's the answer. The RE11 are great tires but they're the most expensive of the bunch and not at the top of the list for autocross. The BFG Rivals are excellent tires that can be driven daily in the Summer, BUT they're TERRIBLE in the wet even at full tread. The Rivals on my car right now are in their 2nd season of being abused (DD, autox, track) and I really should retire them from DD, as I think they're getting to the point of being unsafe. I have a set of ZII's in the basement ready to go on.
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Old 06-06-2014, 03:13 PM   #970
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Josh R. View Post
17x9 RPF1's with 255 Dunlop ZII's or RS3 V2's if you don't want to f with your fenders. Seriously. That's the answer. The RE11 are great tires but they're the most expensive of the bunch and not at the top of the list for autocross. The BFG Rivals are excellent tires that can be driven daily in the Summer, BUT they're TERRIBLE in the wet even at full tread. The Rivals on my car right now are in their 2nd season of being abused (DD, autox, track) and I really should retire them from DD, as I think they're getting to the point of being unsafe. I have a set of ZII's in the basement ready to go on.
Thank you! What about offsets? Place I would be buying from seems to have 17x9 in both 35 and 45 offset. Im wondering how the difference would affect performance
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Old 06-06-2014, 04:09 PM   #971
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+45 offset. Any lower offset and I think you'll have issues. I have 275's on 9" +45 RPF1's and it required rolling and a little pulling on the rear. I test fit 255's and they seemed to be fine.
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Old 06-06-2014, 10:25 PM   #972
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Quote:
Originally Posted by subydude View Post
Regarding the rear, you can modify the knuckle a few ways, but I'm not convinced yet that you want to. Using the bad geometry of lowering it to induce rotation in low speed situations while relying on aero to keep things in check in high speed situations seems to work well. There are some bar settings in there as well to get it right too. I have sketched a few designs out to see what would work, and I think it'd be relatively easy with a few hours of cutting and welding.
Trust me- you want to fix the rear roll center issue. In XP subframe changes are legal, so I did it the right way, but even in SM with modifying the knuckle it would make a big improvement.

The overall balance of the car was greatly improved and I was not torquing the chassis nearly as much in hard corners. That is essentially what is happening when the front and rear roll centers are widely different. You are down to using the chassis as a torsion spring. Not a good way to get optimal handling.
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Old 06-08-2014, 09:18 PM   #973
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedyHAM View Post
Trust me- you want to fix the rear roll center issue. In XP subframe changes are legal, so I did it the right way, but even in SM with modifying the knuckle it would make a big improvement.

The overall balance of the car was greatly improved and I was not torquing the chassis nearly as much in hard corners. That is essentially what is happening when the front and rear roll centers are widely different. You are down to using the chassis as a torsion spring. Not a good way to get optimal handling.
This is true. I know typically on the formula cars we aim for 1.5" higher roll center in the rear, I have no idea what to do on a door slammer because I've never been at the point where I needed to change roll centers, because miata.
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Old 06-09-2014, 03:18 PM   #974
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Interesting. So I'd be fixing the rear roll center, but then adding toe out to keep my rotation that I get now. Not super hard to do, just time consuming. I'll have to make sure to get the rear attachment points at least 1.5 lower than it is now to get it even close.
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Old 07-10-2014, 11:15 AM   #975
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Hey guys. I wanted to regenerate some discussion on GC v GD chassis for an SM build. And the rulebook interpretations for a few issues.

I have a pretty decent SM build on my GD right now. The thing is- it's a low mileage chassis (so it has a great residual value still), and I am not really attached to the body style like I was when I bought it. Plus, it's slowly transitioned into this almost full SM build. So I'm wasting the value of the OEM car itself.

So I've been considering swapping most all my parts (that will fit) over to a cheap GC shell, and selling the GD.

Here are my questions:

Where does ECU/full wire harness fall in relation to chapter 16 (SM) of the rulebook ? Part of "drivetrain-unlimited"? Can I use an entire GD harness and ECU with my swapped drivetrain on the GC so that I don't have to sell my v3 AP?

Gauge Cluster: Am I not allowed to touch it?

If I end up doing this swap, I'll leave my rebuilt '04 6MT in the GD and hunt for something new for the GC. Any suggestions for the "ideal" tranny? Looking for high speed 2nd and weight savings mostly. Also would pick up a rear diff...

Does an item like the mapDCCD turn any transmission into a dccd capable one, or does it only piggyback on trans that already have dccd? Please forgive my lack of trans knowledge here.

My CF driveshaft- will it work in the GC or is the trans to diff length way different?

What about engine and trans crossmembers- are they identical and already on the GC or will I need to source another set from a GD and swap em?

My plan for my AST4100 was to just get GC vorshlag top hats to replace my GD ones...

And keep all my parts from my 5x114.3 swap. (Knuckles, rotors, wheels, tires, etc). Would need to grab new axles of course based on my trans choice.

Ok. That's me talking out loud. Hoping some GC guys chime in on this. I can read and research swap info on my own, so sorry if I went too overboard with swap questions. More concerned here with rulebook on electrical systems and wiring, and how you guys went about it!

Last edited by visibiliti; 07-10-2014 at 10:16 PM.
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