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06-04-2020, 12:17 AM | #426 | |
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06-04-2020, 12:30 AM | #427 |
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^^^ LMAO, damn you must be really old? haha jk!
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06-04-2020, 01:30 PM | #428 | |
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yo wuuusaa "^^^ LMAO, damn you must be really old? haha jk!" Thank you for pointing that out, I'm LMAO as well!! (30 yrs ago I was modding Tonka trucks and Hotwheels tracks!) |
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06-04-2020, 02:20 PM | #429 | |
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True I havent really followed the FA20 relative to all out builds....but if UELH like the tomei have supported so many high horsepower all out builds (600+) since I have been following them for the STI series engines..which is a larger engine...then that header will flow enough and support those same horsepower levels on a SMALLER Subaru boxer engine(especially one with other power building advantages ever the EJ...direct injection..higher compression, etc....) , such that the header will never be a restriction..whether its a performance UELH or a performance ELH. at those horsepower levels. Its that simple. |
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06-04-2020, 02:56 PM | #430 | |
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Cheers |
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06-04-2020, 08:24 PM | #431 | |
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06-04-2020, 08:53 PM | #432 |
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Again.. Advertising Fluff.. WIDER??? WTF... give actual numbers" Do you have any CFD data to prove flow characteristics?? Perring and KillerB units are WIDER and even less restrictive (KB even more so without all those damned connections and welds all over the place, and they showed us some nice CFD data to boot) They also offer ceramic coating and ewgs.. I just don't see how this product is competitive in the least. It even uses inferior materials compared to KB?? why why why must you try to convince anyone these are "better"??? Nope they aren't any better, they only make ****ty sounding noises.. like sticking a can on my bmx fork to make it rattle to sound like I had a motorcycle engine in it.. when I was like 6 yrs old thinking that was cool!!
Sorry I'm not a fan of the rumble as I come from Big Block Mopar and Chevy background that have a nice smooth deep sound (which I do miss) when it ever sounded like an old EJ on UELH I knew I must be misfiring and loosing power! |
06-04-2020, 09:14 PM | #433 | |
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... The UELH was announced back at the end of March and Tomei hasn't produced any data on them - probably because these aren't meant for performance but for sound. There is a 180 degree bend in them - I feel like that is a restriction in itself. They probably had to make the diameter of the runners wider so that it could maintain performance when compared to the stock header. Calling back to the example I posted, that build was FBO minus FF and made 300 on 91 with the stock header and 298 with the UELH. Going with any other aftermarket ELH (Perrin, Killer B, etc) you are going to see a performance increase and set up your build for the potential for even more power. Take a look through the 50+ pages of builds in the dyno thread. Most owners aren't looking to make 400+ whp. Out of the pages I glanced through, most are around the high 200's - low to mid 300's - right around Stage 2 on 91 - 93 and the mid to upper 300's with ethanol. Most leaving the stock header. Anyone looking to hit 400+ is usually upgrading their turbo and header. The bottom line is, no matter if these headers can support power, it is highly unlikely that someone who is looking to make power is going to use this header. Tomei didn't advertise these with any kind of dyno charts, any kind of performance gain estimates, only with "boxer rumble," 'WIDE," and "VERY WIDE!" They aren't advertising this as a performance part. I think that people in this thread are getting annoyed or "butt hurt" as you call it because you are trying to make it out to be more than it is. If people want their WRX to have the rumble, I don't care, let them do it. But no one can say for sure how it will affect the FA20's reliability and longevity or if it actually can support higher powered builds. |
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06-05-2020, 09:25 AM | #434 | |||
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Its straining and annoying to read nonfactual comments about this header design. They are relatively less efficient at scavenging exhaust compared to ELH. But that's it. a 2 horsepower difference is nullified and irrelevant and actually supports those that want to have a more aggressive exhaust sound with objectively zero performance loss...while keeping the potential for build ups of much more horsepower that the header will support. Last edited by NighthawkSTI; 06-05-2020 at 10:14 AM. |
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06-05-2020, 11:33 AM | #435 |
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*Relatively less efficient at scavenging exhaust compared to the stock ELH. There hasn't been any comparisons done with an aftermarket ELH. Sure maybe this header can support a 400+ whp build, but who's to say that same build with an ELH wouldn't perform better?
This UELH is a replacement for the stock header, not an upgrade. |
06-05-2020, 11:37 AM | #436 | |
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for gods sake its annoying as hell reading post after post of guys ranting about a 180 degree bend. Who the hell cares, it's mandrel bent tubing, makes no f-ing difference if it's a full 180. The only thing these affect is the damn twin scroll, that's it. Delete all the posts of the guys who are deathly afraid of lugging and there won't be any complaints left, and the 2000 rpm peak torque is all you will lose. |
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06-05-2020, 12:43 PM | #437 | ||
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No matter how you try to slice it, the unequal rumble is costing you power. How much the unequal can make is irrelevant here, knowing that you could have had still more power without spending any more money or working any harder. And the only reason here for leaving the equal length header's advantage on the table is because the rumble means more to you than the power. Quote:
Norm Last edited by Norm Peterson; 06-05-2020 at 12:50 PM. |
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06-05-2020, 01:16 PM | #438 |
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Tomei should make an UELH for a 2020 Porsche 911 Turbo S. Curious how it will sound.
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06-05-2020, 01:53 PM | #439 |
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06-05-2020, 06:34 PM | #440 | ||
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The performance UELH will support way way more power over stock. Its all relative. You 2.0 FA guys should be thanking your luck stars(see what I did there LOL), that manufacturers are expanding the parts available for these engines and giving people what they want...instead of Bit***g about it |
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06-06-2020, 11:50 AM | #441 |
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I can’t believe this has been going on this long....
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06-06-2020, 05:36 PM | #442 |
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Just for a taste or reality, here's a pic that's commonly found in a text book in regards to tube angle and flow dynamics. The short of it is the longer the bend angle the more turbulence and worse flow capacity, PERIOD.
Some of you should be ashamed of the misinformation you're spreading in a public forum where people are seeking knowledge. |
06-06-2020, 05:53 PM | #443 |
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Thanks Killer B for providing some actual facts and proof. I am one of those people just trying to learn and better understand header design.
Would you also be able to comment with any thoughts of the affects of using an unequal length header with a twin scroll turbo? Not talking specifically about the Tomei header here, just in general. Is it as simple as everyone seems to think? You just get slower boost response and that's it? Thanks |
06-06-2020, 06:14 PM | #444 |
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06-06-2020, 08:51 PM | #445 |
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I swore off this site years ago, but this is just too absurd for me to keep my promise.
I've driven plenty of EJ25s. They have a unique sound, which I liked. But the notion of introducing that trombone-like bend, and throwing out all of Subaru's development efforts, and paying for the privilege, all to make a new WRX sound like an EJ25 is absurd. Anyone even considering that needs to go take a walk, skip some stones across a duck-filled pond, and reconsider his entire philosophy of life. The latest version of the WRX is great. The "seat-of-the-pants" feel of all that usable torque is unreal. It honestly reminds me of an LS1. It hits you that hard in the back, that easily. And I'd never take advice from anyone who'd let his exhaust tips get as dirty as those seen in that video. Come on, man. That's not a guy with a good head on his shoulders. |
06-06-2020, 09:32 PM | #446 |
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06-06-2020, 11:27 PM | #447 | |
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this is what a 2 HP difference does to the internet LMAO |
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06-06-2020, 11:32 PM | #448 | |
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If you can translate the 180 degree bends on a FA(because that graphic while informative leaves out the design variables of everything before and after the 180 deg bend specific to the FA engine design) that for example is using a performance UELH and making 400 horsepower...how much power those bends are taking away...I'd love to see that illustrated....it would bring everything full circle here. I dont see that header limiting the FA to 340 horsepower as I argued against here when it was thrown out there or that it changes the way the twin scroll operates relatively speaking....the exhaust pulses are still entering a twin scroll housing...albiet with relatively less efficient scavenging over the ELH. Thank you for your input in advance. Last edited by NighthawkSTI; 06-06-2020 at 11:57 PM. |
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06-07-2020, 10:31 AM | #449 | |
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"Aggressive" is such a worn-out term these days that it has really lost any meaning it might have had, never mind that it does not describe the character of a sound very well to begin with. It's the word that people these days reach for before even trying to describe anything that's a bit out of the ordinary. Basically, if you can't hear the similarity between a flat-four VW and a flat-four unequal-length EJ or FA, you're either in denial or musically deaf. I suppose I could have used the term 'syncopated' to describe the boxer rumble, but subjectively that's too complimentary of a term to use for a sound that's not particularly pleasing to the ear. And it might be a term that only a few people here would be familiar with, anyway. So rattle-y is it for now (it's certainly more descriptive than "aggressive"). Norm |
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06-07-2020, 02:00 PM | #450 | |
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Check out an LS1 dyno graph vs. an FA20F dyno graph. Under 4,000rpm, it's pretty damned close. Of course, you've made it clear that you only consider the peak horsepower number, so screw that, right? I mean, who ever ran an engine at under 4,000rpm? And that dude's exhaust tips were disgusting. A bunch of crap spewed out when he started up, and even the guy standing by the back of the car looked disgusting. That car is running too rich or something. Whole video is just made of jackassery. |
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