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Old 06-18-2020, 04:40 AM   #2451
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I've read something about fan controllers have a smooth start operation making them not ideal for fuel pump application
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Old 06-18-2020, 07:08 AM   #2452
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevieturbo View Post
I'm only seeing 2 pins at each connector ? Is there a better photo ?

Although I should have the Volvo wiring diagrams installed on my laptop, but I think it only covers up to 2015 or so.
The larger connector on one side has a tiny pin above the two largest pins.

There is a seller on eBay, maybe in China, who sells the three pigtails IN a set for this controller.
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Old 06-18-2020, 08:37 AM   #2453
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper View Post
I've read something about fan controllers have a smooth start operation making them not ideal for fuel pump application
True many are designed that way but there may be versions where the start up speed is controlled by the ecu. That's what I'm trying to find out. The one I got was dirt cheap, too bad I can't dissect it.
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Old 06-18-2020, 11:47 AM   #2454
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Barge View Post
PN 7W83-9D372-AA I believe it is actually used in several different vehicles.
That PN brings up tons of hits with them at $40-45 on ebay. Of course then finding plug and pins for it is another thing. Where did you source yours, donor from the car?

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I would
but I am half way across the globe and air communication is down, if you have part numbers for those that might help me source them locally
Well you know a guy
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Old 06-18-2020, 12:39 PM   #2455
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Well you know a guy
yeah, lets smuggle the connector in the oil pan!
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Old 06-18-2020, 03:24 PM   #2456
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yeah, lets smuggle the connector in the oil pan!
Or ship to some random hotel in Miami
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Old 06-18-2020, 05:22 PM   #2457
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Or ship to some random hotel in Miami





shhhh you!
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Old 06-18-2020, 08:39 PM   #2458
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For anyone needing the female connector for the jaguar/landrover/volvo controller, Corsa-technic.com has them. It's a Yazaki brand connector and the Yazaki part number is 7283-5577-10 and you can choose the wire size for the terminals.

That's the connector that was discussed in the post discussing the controllers, and it appears to be the same design.

They are a good company, have bought many connectors and other wiring supplies from them.

Last edited by 2slofouru; 06-18-2020 at 08:52 PM.
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Old 06-19-2020, 06:10 AM   #2459
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Originally Posted by 2slofouru View Post
Yeah, yours looks just like my land rover controller, but without the tabs on bottom. Probably the same unit and they just swap the steel bottom cover depending on vehicle. The rest looks the same. I'm going to check that link and see what's up. Probably need to find a pwm signal generator, something relatively simple I can use to test random controllers. Edit: Ok, checked that link and the testing seems limited to finding the correct signal needed to drive it without turning it off and the guy stating it looks high quality inside. The terminals are smaller than the ones on the fan controller I have, but that's not a huge deal if they have beefy solder joints and the female connector pins have good contact. I wish they would have tried killing it to see how much current it could continously handle while also measuring its temperature and the output voltage. If only I had a set up to do it myself, argh.

I also got this in the mail, obviously not made for fuel pumps, but the spades are large and likely carries a good bit of current. Popped the metal cover off and damn it's completely encapsulated in black epoxy.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Fan-Control...72.m2749.l2649



Foiled! Guess I could still try giving it a pwm signal and find a way to keep a constant high current load on it and see how warm it gets. Really simple pinout with large ground and positive and tiny pwm input on the larger terminal, and ground and positive on the other two. Apparently it drives two fans, unsure if it drives them both equally or at stepped speeds and separately. I also wonder how quickly it ramps and drops, haven't found any tests of it yet. It's a newer volvo radiator fan speed controller. Mine was $15 shipped, obviously cheapo, but the oem version has to be pretty stout considering the terminal size and heatsink.
I looked up the wiring diagrams etc for my own Volvo V70 D5 last night, which has a fan controller that I presume is the same.
The ecu does output a PWM signal at 100Hz to the controller, so should be easy for any ecu to do.
Can't comment on it's response or current abilities etc though.

http://solidstaterelaystore.com/pe0675.aspx

Only just looked at the data for that SSR there too....so strange it's suggesting 12kHz for it ?

When a Crydom DC Series is only 1kHz max, and that's for lower current versions. The Chinese stuff even lower again.
Even the little Hella plug in relay SSR is 1kHz max.

What on earth are they doing different to allow 12x that ?
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Old 06-21-2020, 10:17 AM   #2460
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2slofouru View Post
For anyone needing the female connector for the jaguar/landrover/volvo controller, Corsa-technic.com has them. It's a Yazaki brand connector and the Yazaki part number is 7283-5577-10 and you can choose the wire size for the terminals.

That's the connector that was discussed in the post discussing the controllers, and it appears to be the same design.

They are a good company, have bought many connectors and other wiring supplies from them.
Yep, they carry them because they ordered a big batch to supply me mine.
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Old 06-21-2020, 11:16 AM   #2461
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Yep, they carry them because they ordered a big batch to supply me mine.

If that's the case, why didn't you share the part number here when someone was asking? All it took me was a few seconds checking Corsa to realize they were suppliers. I'm sure Corsa would like to unload them if you're the only buyer.

I posted it to help others because it seems they were trying to find it yet no one was replying...when there is an easy source.

Last edited by 2slofouru; 06-21-2020 at 11:21 AM.
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Old 06-22-2020, 10:28 AM   #2462
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2slofouru View Post
If that's the case, why didn't you share the part number here when someone was asking? All it took me was a few seconds checking Corsa to realize they were suppliers. I'm sure Corsa would like to unload them if you're the only buyer.

I posted it to help others because it seems they were trying to find it yet no one was replying...when there is an easy source.
Maybe because I did a bunch of leg work to figure out the connector part number and get them imported and I offered to supply them?

Do you bash iWire for not supplying manufacturer PN's for all their connectors?

Feel free to buy from Corsa though... they're great people and I love working with them.
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Old 06-22-2020, 07:59 PM   #2463
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Maybe install one of these https://www.ebay.com/itm/PWM-To-Volt...G/402297095956 at the knob/voltage input of a generic high current motor controller like this https://www.ebay.com/itm/DC-12V-24V-...r/323548812617 . The device converts a pwm signal to an analog 0-5vdc, which is what the motor controller expects.

I already have a 60a version and may grab one of those converters to see if it works, but am not sure I could calibrate the converter properly. Seems like a fairly simple solution for someone wanting a controller that can handle more than 15-18 amps of fuel pump, then again the converter could be glitchy and cause issues.




Quote:
Originally Posted by stevieturbo View Post
This thread covers where a guy firstly made his own, then later used the Range Rover or something ones later.

https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/...&f=66&t=916550

A lot of those chinese controllers with the knob....clearly use a variable resistance at the knob for control.
I guess potentially you could link it to something like MAP or TPS voltage, depending on exactly how the pot was fed and voltage range it uses.
But if aftermarket ecu..should be easy to knock up whatever output it needs, if you tested it to see what it is actually using.

But I've had a controller like it sitting on my desk here for years, and likewise I never got around to testing it. Although the one I had was supposed to take a PWM input. But as there were no instructions with it, never did figure it out. And the SSR route was so easy.

The actual control frequency thing is odd. Yes more knowledgeable people than me say very high frequency is good, and above the audible range otherwise you can hear a buzzing noise ( which you can with mine...but no chance with the engine running of course ).
Strangely when I was testing my methanol pump via the little Hella SSR. I tested it at various frequencies whilst logging output pressure and recording flow. And it actually seemed to hate higher frequencies ( max 1khz, limit of that SSR )
I ended up leaving it down at 50Hz which is what the Snow controller used and pump performance seemed to give the most consistent results across the range of control duties I asked.

Afte doing all that testing, I did try my fuel pumps at various frequencies and recorded what FP was doing ( yes, FPR should still regulate, but pressure did actually change slightly with different frequencies )
Only just rechecked my ecu Cal...and I'm actually running it down at 200Hz, not the 650 I had previously mentioned.
This was from that testing, it seemed to yield a slightly higher pressure ( changes were very slight I recall )
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Old 06-23-2020, 12:34 PM   #2464
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I think when I looked into the Chinese controllers ages ago, I did find the sort of thing you refer to....but also sure their response times to changes were in seconds. Lots of seconds....not milliseconds etc.

Really, it's great wanting to use a "proper" controller etc....but the SSR just plain works.
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Old 06-23-2020, 09:42 PM   #2465
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevieturbo View Post
I think when I looked into the Chinese controllers ages ago, I did find the sort of thing you refer to....but also sure their response times to changes were in seconds. Lots of seconds....not milliseconds etc.

Really, it's great wanting to use a "proper" controller etc....but the SSR just plain works.
I've been on the pistonheads forums, mustang forums, haltech forums, gtr forums, etc. I've seen your posts on a couple of them. People have been retrofitting oem controllers for several years apparently. Unfortunately they don't have a lot of current capability and I'd only use one for maybe a track vehicle, where I could trailer it home if needed. I could have gotten two lower current pumps, like many do, but I wanted no excuse for lack of fueling. For a daily driven car that also makes a lot of power, I'd worry about breaking down out of state and having to pay a huge tow bill for example. It's also a bit more risky when it's a daily and a sudden loss of fuel could grenade the engine. There are several safeguards the ecu can engage if the ratio of power output to fuel supply isn't within spec, but I worry my skills setting those up may miss something crucial.

The generic fleabay/China controller I have reacts instantly...as in milliseconds. There is no soft start reaction, it responds as quickly as the knob is turned. The digital to analog converter may take longer than the actual motor controller, but that's doubtful, as there would be no need for a soft start function. I don't have a converter (yet). The only way to find out if the D/A converter is compatible would be to try it. I'm not trying to be the first to do it, or claim I'm the first. Obviously if it's something I've considered, there is a major chance someone's already done it. Of course maybe they want to keep it as an advantage, but for something like this it's pointless.

Looks like I need to find a signal generator for the specific function of figuring out a few controllers.

Gasoline fuel pumps will all become brushless eventually anyway. Then when cars all become electric, we won't even be concerned with fuel pumps.

Luckily that will be quite a while, so at least we can enjoy or dinoburners for the foreseeable future.

Last edited by 2slofouru; 06-23-2020 at 09:53 PM.
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Old 07-01-2020, 11:29 AM   #2466
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Decided to go with the jag controller
got a pair to have a spare, and the harness, came out to $100 for everything



what is the max amp current they can handle?
wondering if I can use it to drive my Spal fans
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Old 07-01-2020, 08:26 PM   #2467
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper View Post
Decided to go with the jag controller
got a pair to have a spare, and the harness, came out to $100 for everything



what is the max amp current they can handle?
wondering if I can use it to drive my Spal fans
https://www.nzefi.com/product/fuel-p...ed-controller/

Supposedly the NZEFI ones are just rebadged oems. Somewhere on this page it states 18a max for the NZEFI "version" so that's probably a safe bet. Barge has been running his a while, he probably mentioned it in this thread as well.

Last edited by 2slofouru; 07-01-2020 at 09:58 PM.
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Old 07-03-2020, 09:05 PM   #2468
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevieturbo View Post
I looked up the wiring diagrams etc for my own Volvo V70 D5 last night, which has a fan controller that I presume is the same.
The ecu does output a PWM signal at 100Hz to the controller, so should be easy for any ecu to do.
Can't comment on it's response or current abilities etc though.

http://solidstaterelaystore.com/pe0675.aspx

Only just looked at the data for that SSR there too....so strange it's suggesting 12kHz for it ?

When a Crydom DC Series is only 1kHz max, and that's for lower current versions. The Chinese stuff even lower again.
Even the little Hella plug in relay SSR is 1kHz max.

What on earth are they doing different to allow 12x that ?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hyper View Post
I've read something about fan controllers have a smooth start operation making them not ideal for fuel pump application
I have a 60 amp power supply and tested both controllers at 12.5v input.


I connected a volvo fan controller and it seems to be full at 5-10% duty and tapers off to zero as duty cycle passes 90%. This was with a 95-160hz input signal. At max speed with two cheap ebay fans and an oem three wire fan and it is drawing just over 23 amps at 12.3v output and barely warm to the touch. This one would be a good alternative to the oem fan relay setup. Spool up to full speed takes almost two seconds so yeah not good for fuel pump control.

I also tried the jaguar controller and at 14% duty it maxed at about 22 amps with voltage maxed out at 10.7. To turn it off you just drop below 14% or gradually taper down to 76%. This was with a 280-300hz input signal. The temperature felt about the same as the volvo fan controller, but just used my hand and no actual thermometer. I'm not sure why it wouldn't go over 10.7v, unless it's designed to limit current output, or it could be something I'm doing wrong with the pwm controller.

Just tested the ebay knob adjusted controller and at full clip it is handling 25.8 amps at 11v. ?? Not sure why the current is that much higher. Maybe the switching frequency of the controller has something to do with it. The mosfets don't seem to be warm at all.

It's possible all three controllers with output higher voltage with a running vehicle making 13+ volts. My power supply is designed to hold at 12.5, so 11v controller output isn't a huge drop.

The pwm controller may not be configured correctly, just got it a few days ago and haven't tried it on anything else.

Still awaiting the pwm converter to test the cheapo ebay speed controller via pwm.

Last edited by 2slofouru; 07-03-2020 at 10:22 PM.
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Old 07-04-2020, 05:35 AM   #2469
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One thing I didnt measure when I was testing my methanol pump qt various frequencies via the SSR was current

But at higher frequencies the pump just didnt seem to be able to move any water at lower duties.

So I'd say frequency used will definitely play a role in how much current is drawn, although do not know what the interaction will be.
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Old 07-05-2020, 01:01 PM   #2470
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevieturbo View Post
One thing I didnt measure when I was testing my methanol pump qt various frequencies via the SSR was current

But at higher frequencies the pump just didnt seem to be able to move any water at lower duties.

So I'd say frequency used will definitely play a role in how much current is drawn, although do not know what the interaction will be.
The oem type controllers expect a fixed frequency input but apparently will work if you're close (at least with the ones I tried). Their circuit is designed to convert that lower frequency input to a pwm output signal at a very high fixed frequency.

The SSR is designed to pulse at the frequency you input, so if you input a 1khz signal, it will output a 1khz signal. It is basically a mosfet or hexfet transistor with a circuit to protect it and a heat sink. For some reason they design them to switch at a max of 1khz but obviously mosfets are very fast devices, strange someone doesn't design a circuit to use them for what we need.
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Old 07-05-2020, 01:07 PM   #2471
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2slofouru View Post
The oem type controllers expect a fixed frequency input but apparently will work if you're close (at least with the ones I tried). Their circuit is designed to convert that lower frequency input to a pwm output signal at a very high fixed frequency.

The SSR is designed to pulse at the frequency you input, so if you input a 1khz signal, it will output a 1khz signal. It is basically a mosfet or hexfet transistor with a circuit to protect it and a heat sink. For some reason they design them to switch at a max of 1khz but obviously mosfets are very fast devices, strange someone doesn't design a circuit to use them for what we need.
As said, in the wiring diagram data for my Volvo, it states the signal to the controller is at 100Hz. Maybe if you deviate from this, it affects the operation of the controller ?
But it would be a PWM signal into the controller at 100Hz...and then it will output whatever it does.

But the likes of the Crydom DC series I use is designed for DC loads, it does work for what we need and are available in up to 100A rating.

Although as I mentioned a few posts back, the SSR someone else linked, in their literature they state 20Khz max, although I do find that hard to believe when no other SSR even comes close to that.

I guess only buying one and testing would show if it really does.
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Old 07-05-2020, 03:49 PM   #2472
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stevieturbo View Post
As said, in the wiring diagram data for my Volvo, it states the signal to the controller is at 100Hz. Maybe if you deviate from this, it affects the operation of the controller ?
But it would be a PWM signal into the controller at 100Hz...and then it will output whatever it does.

But the likes of the Crydom DC series I use is designed for DC loads, it does work for what we need and are available in up to 100A rating.

Although as I mentioned a few posts back, the SSR someone else linked, in their literature they state 20Khz max, although I do find that hard to believe when no other SSR even comes close to that.

I guess only buying one and testing would show if it really does.
I'm the one who linked the SSR that claimed very high switching speed. Not sure if that's a typo or a spec that isn't related to its output speed. So long as the SSR is getting you the full voltage when needed and not making too much noise or decreasing full pump life, there's obviously nothing wrong with using them. I am curious as to how the one I linked performs, but am not going to buy one for the fun of it, and it's doubtful my testing or measurements would be sufficient. Already have so many things lying around that will never be used, just bought on a whim out of curiosity. I'm not even sure the pwm generator I'm using is set up correctly for what I did already.
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Old 07-05-2020, 04:52 PM   #2473
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Buying **** is easy....using it is a different matter lol.

And I buy far far far too much **** !
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Old 11-01-2020, 03:40 AM   #2474
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Question on line split to the fuel rails in the engine bay, I have seen different Y-adapters, one is 8AN in / x2 AN6 out, or 8AN in / x2 AN8 out

as I am upgrading to AN8 feed, should I do it right up to the fuel lines?
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Old 11-01-2020, 06:34 AM   #2475
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Unless you're making a huge amount of power a -6 to each rail will be plenty, and certainly the smaller diameter hoses..and in teflon can make routing around the engine bay easier.
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