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Old 07-06-2020, 04:40 PM   #301
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No fast enough to out run Ham's line. So no, it's a total Rookie move and you don't see those from the "adult" drivers, only kids. It was not a clean pass. Albon didn't have enough speed or distance to clear it without interference.
I'm not following this logic at all. You can apply the same "reasoning" to literally any pass not counting a DRS-enabled blow-by before they even reach the braking zone.

When a driver comes up the inside under braking, they're typically not able to "out run" the leading driver's line. They get along side, and force the leading driver to alter their line, and not turn down to the apex as they would on their traditional line.

This is exactly the same situation, outside vs. inside. The driver being passed nearly always has to alter their line and yield. That certainly doesn't make something a clean pass vs. an unclean pass.

Yes, I understand the outside pass requires a more attentive driver being passed (as he has to resist getting back on the throttle so quickly so he can tighten his radius), but that's hardly asking too much.

What I do find interesting is that, typically, the outside driver will yield and go off-track to avoid the contact. Albon didn't. I don't think he had to, but perhaps that's where he was being a "rookie". Driver's don't tend to yield to other cars around the outside like that, so if you do attempt the pass, be prepared to forced off track, unless you're willing to wreck. He didn't yield and he wrecked.

Perhaps next time he'll just be forced off track by Lewis, just as everyone else has been at one time or another, like a good little boy.
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Old 07-06-2020, 04:53 PM   #302
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Old 07-06-2020, 06:34 PM   #303
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Perez's penalty was really poorly communicated. But I will never have a problem with a penalty for something that's a) entirely about personnel safety, and b) completely objective.

Hamilton's penalty was a little harsh, but justified IMO. If Albon hadn't spun into last place and instead just been knocked back a position to make a second run at Hamilton, that's probably just a racing incident. But the reality was, Hamilton was legitimately passed on the outside. Albon was well past "along side" and was clearly in Hamilton's view. It was Hamilton's job to lift and alter his line to leave a car width. Those are the regulations, and that's also the generally accepted way it works among the drivers. Hamilton caused that contact by not avoiding the car ahead. And it might be true that he simply didn't have the traction available to avoid understeer, but that doesn't make it less his fault. It's not Albon's job to avoid a car that's undesteering out of control, though I bet he wished he had run wide to avoid Hamilton, but that leaves him open to "leaving the racing surface to gain an advantage".

I think Albon said it best: "I thought as long as I give him all the space I can give him, it's up to him if he wants to crash or not." Also, I think Hamilton is right to disagree but move on is also the right opinion for him. It *was* a subjective penalty, and it could have gone either way, and yesterday it just didn't go Hamilton's way.
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Old 07-06-2020, 09:18 PM   #304
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Sperry,

I watched that pass over and over, literally frame by frame. The only angle ESPN gave us was from inside the corner. I would like to see it from the opposite angle. It 100% appeared to me that Hamilton gave Albon more than a car width. In the ESPN angle, you can see a tire track that is well outside of Albon's line. When they touched I think that Albon had at least half a car width between him and the kerbs.

Albon's quote "I was already past Hamilton, I was looking at Bottas". Yeah, exactly, Albon kept turning in as opposed to running wider and wasn't trying to complete his pass on HAM.

IMHO this was a racing incident.
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Old 07-07-2020, 05:41 AM   #305
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I can see why you'd think that but, Lewis was the car behind and, there was contact affecting another car. It was a close call though I would be ok with no penalty on.

I'm OK with Shumi being the only one to get that cardinal rule. He didn't deserve it and it should be ended.

The problem is with enforcement. It's hard to equalize these things. There needs to be more framework.
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Old 07-07-2020, 10:51 AM   #306
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Twitter


Two-time world champion Fernando Alonso is set to return to F1 with Renault in 2021, with a deal expected to be announced on Wednesday!
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Old 07-07-2020, 11:58 AM   #307
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Wonder how much he's going to make.
This may not sit well over at Renault.
Didn't they have a massive layoff?
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Old 07-07-2020, 01:20 PM   #308
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but not the "best" people...
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Old 07-07-2020, 06:02 PM   #309
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To me, it was clear HAM was trying to run wide to prevent the outside pass.

Take a look at BOT's line through the corner, it's about half a car's width inside of what HAM took. He took the curbs much more aggressively, while HAM was trying to block ALB's move.

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Old 07-07-2020, 09:59 PM   #310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoapBox View Post
I'm not following this logic at all. You can apply the same "reasoning" to literally any pass not counting a DRS-enabled blow-by before they even reach the braking zone.

When a driver comes up the inside under braking, they're typically not able to "out run" the leading driver's line. They get along side, and force the leading driver to alter their line, and not turn down to the apex as they would on their traditional line.

This is exactly the same situation, outside vs. inside. The driver being passed nearly always has to alter their line and yield. That certainly doesn't make something a clean pass vs. an unclean pass.

Yes, I understand the outside pass requires a more attentive driver being passed (as he has to resist getting back on the throttle so quickly so he can tighten his radius), but that's hardly asking too much.

What I do find interesting is that, typically, the outside driver will yield and go off-track to avoid the contact. Albon didn't. I don't think he had to, but perhaps that's where he was being a "rookie". Driver's don't tend to yield to other cars around the outside like that, so if you do attempt the pass, be prepared to forced off track, unless you're willing to wreck. He didn't yield and he wrecked.

Perhaps next time he'll just be forced off track by Lewis, just as everyone else has been at one time or another, like a good little boy.
Even the pro agrees that Ham should not have been punished and it was Albon (because he was coming in on the outside) and at worse it was a racing incident


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Old 07-08-2020, 11:22 AM   #311
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I can post YouTube videos too.
Albon was ahead at the apex, and even further ahead at the exit.
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Old 07-08-2020, 06:06 PM   #312
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I didn’t watch those videos. It seems really simple: when they made contact, Albon was well ahead of Hamilton and in his vision. The pass was made. Hamilton, now as the following car has a responsibility not to crash into the car ahead. If he simply couldn’t, due to understeer or whatever, that’s unfortunate but it doesn’t make it less his fault. Remember, “fault” doesn’t explicitly mean “intent”. But you can easily make an argument that Hamilton did intend to run Albon out over the curbs in order to slow down his run onto the next straight, since that’s something Hamilton’s done plenty of times before... it’s savvy racecraft really... Albon just didn’t capitulate.

Now, whether or not +5 seconds is the correct penalty is a different conversation. But there doesn’t seem to be much of a valid argument that Albon hit the car behind him after passing on the outside of the corner.

Regarding the penalty, +5 seconds is the smallest penalty they’ve got. I think if Albon doesn’t get spun to last place, there’s no penalty at all. But since he did, the stewards gave Hamilton the minimum penalty. Seems hard to argue that logic IMO, but I can understand that the loss of a podium might seem too harsh for a little (assumedly) unintentional contact.
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Old 07-09-2020, 12:08 AM   #313
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As much as I like the idea of a smaller penalty. Lewis has plenty of time to try and keep the podium buffer. I can see why people may think it was harsh but I don't. His driving sure cost Albon more than five seconds.

Driving clean should be worth something. The first lap was soo clean and that makes for a better show in the long run.

As much as I may agree looking into a smaller minimum penalty may be good. Seems Lewis just isn't getting surprised enough. He seems to not be as comfy as Valteri in the car yet. This just looked far too much like a Schumacher move and that needs to be policed. For the good of the sport.
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Old 07-09-2020, 06:21 PM   #314
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I say Hungary and things will be unexciting again. But at least it is there.
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Old 07-09-2020, 06:23 PM   #315
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Yeah baby!
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Old 07-09-2020, 06:24 PM   #316
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Agreed! Hope this trend continues but probably unlikely.
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Old 07-10-2020, 07:46 AM   #317
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Sochi & Mugello have been added to the 2020 calendar.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/m...endar/4829726/
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Old 07-10-2020, 10:38 AM   #318
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Looks like Vettel is SOL for a drive next year.
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Old 07-10-2020, 11:50 AM   #319
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Vettel better off sitting out next year than staying at Ferrari.
That car looks like a dumpster fire right now.

Other than Leclerc the Ferrari power cars are piddling around at the back in practice.
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Old 07-10-2020, 05:59 PM   #320
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He's not going to take a year off and come back in a championship contending team/car (see; Alonso). Those days are behind him so he either needs to accept a Kimi-esque role at a midfield team or hang it up.
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Old 07-10-2020, 11:27 PM   #321
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Not even Racing point wants him.
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Old 07-11-2020, 02:36 AM   #322
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Well, can they exist without the drivers they have?

I don't think Seb wants to drive for free but it would be an interesting way to rid the grid of checkbook in a seat. Even though the whole team kinda works that way.

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Old 07-11-2020, 03:12 PM   #323
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Hopefully, we aren't seeing a boring parade tomorrow. With anyone but HAM in front, there is always some level of excitement of him trying to get the lead.
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Old 07-11-2020, 04:04 PM   #324
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The Grid:

1 Hamilton Mercedes 1:19.273 122.074 mph
2 Verstappen Red Bull 1:20.489 1.216
3 Sainz McLaren 1:20.671 1.398
4 Bottas Mercedes 1:20.701 1.428
5 Ocon Renault 1:20.922 1.649
6 Norris McLaren 1:20.925 1.652
7 Albon Red Bull 1:21.011 1.738
8 Gasly AlphaTauri 1:21.028 1.755
9 Ricciardo Renault 1:21.192 1.919
10 Vettel Ferrari 1:21.651 2.378
12 Russell Williams 1:19.636
13 Stroll Racing Point 1:19.645
11 Leclerc Ferrari 1:19.628
14 Kvyat AlphaTauri 1:19.717
15 Magnussen Haas 1:20.211
16 Raikkonen Alfa Romeo 1:21.372
17 Perez Racing Point 1:21.607
18 Latifi Williams 1:21.759
19 Giovinazzi Alfa Romeo 1:21.831
20 Grosjean Haas No Time

Don't think it going to be easy for Lewis.
Red Bull does well on this track. Providing Max's car doesn't take a dump on him again.
Lets see if Ferrari's update does anything. It didn't do crap in the rain.
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Old 07-12-2020, 12:25 AM   #325
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Depends on the conditions tomorrow (today?) and who set up for what
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