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Old 07-14-2018, 06:51 PM   #1
albersondh
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Default Lifter bucket grinder?

I need to remove some material from one piece lifter buckets to set lash. My lash changed about .001 after lapping and Im on the tight side now.

I want to use a mill and cutter, end mill, grinding bit, whatever, to take off some material. I can see some guys use dremil bits on a drill press but Im hoping to find something a bit more reliable in tems of straight/square. Im thinking a thicker shank (Dremil is 1/8) and maybe a fine stone? Ideas for a bit to get this done and leave a decent finish?
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Old 07-14-2018, 07:22 PM   #2
Charlie-III
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Surface grinder with a magnetic base/table, very small cuts. Maybe run a green wheel (normally used for carbide).

Everything else is.....well.....ghetto....
Granted, other methods can work, you REALLY want a smooth flat finish. Otherwise, you can wipe out a cam lobe, then, you start all over.......for many valves......

I am not a machinist, I'm a decent "metal hacker". I have a few years working on my own and in shops.
I know when to "MacGuyver" and when to do it right.
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Old 07-14-2018, 09:51 PM   #3
n2oiroc
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charlie-III View Post
Surface grinder with a magnetic base/table, very small cuts. Maybe run a green wheel (normally used for carbide).

Everything else is.....well.....ghetto....
Granted, other methods can work, you REALLY want a smooth flat finish. Otherwise, you can wipe out a cam lobe, then, you start all over.......for many valves......

I am not a machinist, I'm a decent "metal hacker". I have a few years working on my own and in shops.
I know when to "MacGuyver" and when to do it right.
id think you would grind the underside where it touches the valve stem.
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Old 07-15-2018, 12:24 AM   #4
albersondh
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Originally Posted by n2oiroc View Post
id think you would grind the underside where it touches the valve stem.
Yes. I wouldn't touch the surface that laps to the cam. Pretty sure it is not flat to promote lifter spin. Im referring to removing material from the nub that contacts the valve stem.
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Old 07-15-2018, 01:29 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albersondh View Post
Yes. I wouldn't touch the surface that laps to the cam. Pretty sure it is not flat to promote lifter spin. Im referring to removing material from the nub that contacts the valve stem.
Is there another bucket you can swap it with and still have both within spec?
You can always just order the correct size... they're only $15-$20.
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Old 07-15-2018, 08:34 AM   #6
albersondh
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Originally Posted by Subie_ View Post
Is there another bucket you can swap it with and still have both within spec?
You can always just order the correct size... they're only $15-$20.

I want the capability without having to tip valves or buy new.
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Old 07-15-2018, 04:50 PM   #7
Elbert Bass
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I have seen folks grind the valve stem tip, but never the bucket - that is some hard material there...
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Old 07-15-2018, 07:56 PM   #8
Charlie-III
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n2oiroc View Post
id think you would grind the underside where it touches the valve stem.
Quote:
Originally Posted by albersondh View Post
Yes. I wouldn't touch the surface that laps to the cam. Pretty sure it is not flat to promote lifter spin. Im referring to removing material from the nub that contacts the valve stem.
Yes. Issue sorta is.....

Suitable stone (green for carbide is best), keeping surface flat, etc. limited room to work.
If you hack at it, likely less than flat surface which will change gaps with little wear.
Also, grinding heats the material, thus harder to measure, reset, then grind more.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Subie_ View Post
Is there another bucket you can swap it with and still have both within spec?
You can always just order the correct size... they're only $15-$20.
Depends on the system, some are about $17ea, some are closer to $60. Look them up on Subaru.partsonline.com or similar.

Checking gaps on a bench is one thing, checking when the head is torqued to a block may be another.

Doing something on a weekend when no new parts are around is one thing, doing something that lasts for 50K+ miles is another.

Not saying you can't hand grind within a bucket to get a gap, just really hard to do right.
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Old 08-08-2018, 09:46 PM   #9
CarbideCarGuy
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I thought about this myself and I think the best way is order a new bucket.
The second best way is to keep lapping it.
And the quickest way to take off a bunch of material is on a lathe with a really rigid setup and a carbide tip. Indicate it straight withing a few tenths and take a pass a few tenths shy of where you need to be.
I would only use this method if you're taking material off the inside of the bucket. That being said, i don't know if there's any geometry inside of the bucket on the boss tip. you could run an indicator on the boss to find out if its concave, convex or flat.
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Old 08-10-2018, 05:59 PM   #10
rtv900
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CarbideCarGuy View Post
And the quickest way to take off a bunch of material is on a lathe with a really rigid setup and a carbide tip. Indicate it straight withing a few tenths and take a pass a few tenths shy of where you need to be.
.
indicate it within a few tenths and then take a pass a FEW TENTHS shy of where you want to finish?

I'm guessing you've never done anything like that on a lathe.
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Old 04-30-2020, 03:52 PM   #11
HoosierBuddy
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FWIW...I did exactly what the OP was looking to do last night using a dremel and a flat-faced mounted grinding point and easily held my tolerances to less than 0.001".

I have a mounting adapter that allows me to remove the threaded nose piece on the head of my dremel and screw this mounting adapter on in it's place. The mounting adapter allows me to mount the dremel to the tool post on my metal lathe (an old South Bend Heavy 10).

So, I wrapped my buckets in tape to protect the OD, then used a 3 jaw chuck with a stop piece behind to hold the bucket in the lathe's chuck and (more importantly) keep any pressure against the nub while grinding from being able to push the bucket away from the grinder and into the chuck.

After carefully checking my valve clearance, I removed the buckets one at a time, chucked them up, brought the flat face of the mounted grinding stone up to the "nub face", turned on the lathe to spin the bucket at about 200 RPM and turned on the dremel to turn the grinder at about 10,000 RPM...then used the compound wheel to advance the grinder into the nub. The centers of the nub (as spun by the lathe) and grinding point were offset so I wouldn't have a spot where the surface speed of the grinding point was zero against the nub.

By careful work I was able to grind 5 buckets to exactly the desired feeler gauge once reinstalled in the head.(less than +.000/-.001 from nominal). The least I removed from any bucket was .002. The most was .009. I spent about an hour and a half in total on the project, including about 20 minutes setting up the lathe.

It took 3 to 5 cuts, checks, and recuts per bucket to bring them to nominal. A good depth mic was important here to check and recheck to see how much material has been removed.

The nub surfaces are smoother and shinier on the ones I worked then the ones that checked in spec before I started. I took the time to do a very thorough cleaning of each bucket before reinstalling it in the cylinder head...that grinding dust would NOT be good for an engine.

I figured it was worth a shot to resize my old buckets. Worst case I'd ruin one (cut too much or mar the OD) and be buying a replacement...but so far I'm 5 for 5 on mine. One head down, one to go.

Phil

Last edited by HoosierBuddy; 04-30-2020 at 04:15 PM.
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