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Old 12-27-2009, 12:00 PM   #1
4x4GGG
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Default Official Kayak & Canoe Thread

In the market. Didn't know there were sooo many choices out there to make.

We first wanted a tandem, assuming either my niece or friends or what ever. Found out that if you get a 2 man, you need 2 men. Solo operation of a tandem is quite difficult.

Sit in vs sit on. Although the first salesman we talked to was pretty comfortable with sit in, the rest we met thru the day seemed to push the Sit On versions. I agreed with them. I don't think I would want to be paddling from with in a bath tub.

Longer vs Shorter. From what I gather the longer ones can travel faster and tend to track straighter, while the shorter ones can turn on a dime and maneuver anywhere.

So OT... anything I missed or need to know before cashing in my Christmas present?

For the record, I'm leaning towards:

Ocean Kayak, The Frenzy.

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Old 12-27-2009, 12:06 PM   #2
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You need to answer more questions.

1) What kind of water do you want to paddle on? (ocean, lakes, rivers)
2) What is your budget
3) Do you want to be able to increase your skills in kayaking, or just dink around?
4) Do you want to do more floating, or do you want to be actually going places?
5) What are you going to be doing from the kayak (fishing, cruising, surfing, etc)
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Old 12-27-2009, 12:21 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by just smurfy View Post
You need to answer more questions.

1) What kind of water do you want to paddle on? (ocean, lakes, rivers)
2) What is your budget
3) Do you want to be able to increase your skills in kayaking, or just dink around?
4) Do you want to do more floating, or do you want to be actually going places?
5) What are you going to be doing from the kayak (fishing, cruising, surfing, etc)
We will help after the questions are answered!
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Old 11-30-2015, 03:52 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by just smurfy View Post
You need to answer more questions.

1) What kind of water do you want to paddle on? (ocean, lakes, rivers)
2) What is your budget
3) Do you want to be able to increase your skills in kayaking, or just dink around?
4) Do you want to do more floating, or do you want to be actually going places?
5) What are you going to be doing from the kayak (fishing, cruising, surfing, etc)
Bump!

Buying a kayak for my gf for Christmas. She has a little experience kayaking on local rivers and Hog Island Channel off Charleston (a pretty rough day).

Going by the questions on page 1 (quoted above):

1. We'll primarily be paddling the St. Johns River in Jacksonville (very calm waters). Occasionally we'll be going up on some of the rivers/channels north of here (also very calm).
2. I've seen boats anywhere from $250 up over $1000. I'm not afraid to spend a little coin to get something good, but she by no need needs a professional vessel. $500ish good enough?
3. She would want something she could grow into, but definitely not something that would scare a n00b.
4. This would be mainly for exercise and sight-seeing. Definitely want to be able to go longer distances.
5. Cruising.

Other info: she's tall (5'10") and pretty skinny. She wants one of those tye-dyed models if it fits all of the other criteria.
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Old 11-30-2015, 03:59 PM   #5
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Bump!

Buying a kayak for my gf for Christmas. She has a little experience kayaking on local rivers and Hog Island Channel off Charleston (a pretty rough day).

Going by the questions on page 1 (quoted above):

1. We'll primarily be paddling the St. Johns River in Jacksonville (very calm waters). Occasionally we'll be going up on some of the rivers/channels north of here (also very calm).
2. I've seen boats anywhere from $250 up over $1000. I'm not afraid to spend a little coin to get something good, but she by no need needs a professional vessel. $500ish good enough?
3. She would want something she could grow into, but definitely not something that would scare a n00b.
4. This would be mainly for exercise and sight-seeing. Definitely want to be able to go longer distances.
5. Cruising.

Other info: she's tall (5'10") and pretty skinny. She wants one of those tye-dyed models if it fits all of the other criteria.
Short and fat = Easy to use, hard to flip, gets boring after about 10 minutes.

Long and narrow = A little harder to get used to, but faster and easier to paddle long distances.


I would buy a used boat on craigslist, you can get a lot of kayak for $500 during the winter. Something in the 14'-16' range.
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Old 11-30-2015, 04:10 PM   #6
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Short and fat = Easy to use, hard to flip, gets boring after about 10 minutes.

Long and narrow = A little harder to get used to, but faster and easier to paddle long distances.


I would buy a used boat on craigslist, you can get a lot of kayak for $500 during the winter. Something in the 14'-16' range.
In or on?

Also, not too keen on buying a used present, although I'll look into.

Any brands to consider above others? Any good stores to shop at (besides REI)?
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Old 12-27-2009, 12:57 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by 4x4GGG View Post
I don't think I would want to be paddling from with in a bath tub.
A "sit-in" kayak is not like a bathtub at all. Have you actually test-paddled any boats? You really need to do that to make a good decision.
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Old 12-27-2009, 01:09 PM   #8
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For me it will be all bay paddling. Very mild chop.

Up to ~$700.*

For the most part I'll be using it for fun, exploring, exercising. I live right on the Assawoman bay, and I intend to roll thru all the little dock areas and check out houses, etc. Maybe into the bay to play on some sandbars...

Cruising for me, mostly.

*This is a house present from my mother to my brother and I who live together. She offered up to about $800 for a tandem for the 2 of us to alternate using. We found out tandems were out of the question. I found one in the mid $300's (8 foot, top, pretty basic) that seemed to fit my needs and thought of the idea of picking out 2 singles.

I know my wants are completely different for my brother and I. He's gonna want to do some fishing from his, maybe taking it over to the ocean side and do some surfing, deep bay ****... who knows.
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Old 12-27-2009, 02:43 PM   #9
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For me it will be all bay paddling. Very mild chop.

Up to ~$700.*

For the most part I'll be using it for fun, exploring, exercising. I live right on the Assawoman bay, and I intend to roll thru all the little dock areas and check out houses, etc. Maybe into the bay to play on some sandbars...

Cruising for me, mostly.

*This is a house present from my mother to my brother and I who live together. She offered up to about $800 for a tandem for the 2 of us to alternate using. We found out tandems were out of the question. I found one in the mid $300's (8 foot, top, pretty basic) that seemed to fit my needs and thought of the idea of picking out 2 singles.

I know my wants are completely different for my brother and I. He's gonna want to do some fishing from his, maybe taking it over to the ocean side and do some surfing, deep bay ****... who knows.
Nevermind.

Last edited by just smurfy; 12-27-2009 at 03:18 PM.
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Old 12-27-2009, 03:06 PM   #10
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And a lifejacket, of course.
Thanks Mom!
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Old 12-27-2009, 03:18 PM   #11
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Thanks Mom!
. This smart ass response is what I get for spending my time on yoar thread? I was merely reminding you of everything your budget needs to cover. Next time I'll know better. I seriously hope you go for a long swim in the ocean without a vest and water fills your lungs.
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Old 12-27-2009, 03:25 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by just smurfy View Post
. This smart ass response is what I get for spending my time on yoar thread? I was merely reminding you of everything your budget needs to cover. Next time I'll know better. I seriously hope you go for a long swim in the ocean without a vest and water fills your lungs.

Um... I was working on it?
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Old 12-27-2009, 03:07 PM   #13
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^^^ thanks for teh info

I am pretty much set on a "sit-on" model, at first I wanted a sit in but have changed my mind. I would like to use it 10-11 months of the year and a sit on kinda concerns me with the cold water, even though there are scupper plugs you can get I'd imagine you'd still get wet.

There are three I am torn between and other then length and location of storage I don't see much difference;







Besides farting around the back bays I plan to access a few fishing holes that are close by with it. I guess rod holders are an accessory item that can be installed in any of these.


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And a lifejacket, of course.
ok mom
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Old 12-27-2009, 03:24 PM   #14
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I am pretty much set on a "sit-on" model, at first I wanted a sit in but have changed my mind. I would like to use it 10-11 months of the year and a sit on kinda concerns me with the cold water, even though there are scupper plugs you can get I'd imagine you'd still get wet.
Your logic is backwards. With a sit-on model you are guaranteed to get wet. I would not want to use one with cold weather. With a sit-in model you wear a "skirt" that seals to a cockpit and keeps water out of the boat. Your lower body stays dry. For bad weather you wear a dry top or semi-dry top. example:

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Old 12-27-2009, 03:27 PM   #15
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Your logic is backwards. With a sit-on model you are guaranteed to get wet. I would not want to use one with cold weather. With a sit-in model you wear a "skirt" that seals to a cockpit and keeps water out of the boat. Your lower body stays dry. For bad weather you wear a dry top or semi-dry top. example:


I hope to spend the same amount of time on mine, but fully prepared with foul weather gear. My biggest fear is water in the kayak. I'd much rather deal with splash on/roll off than sitting in cold water. I won't lie... that whole in the boat with a skirt getting flipped thing scares the hell out of me.
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Old 12-27-2009, 03:24 PM   #16
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Since your budget is <$700, you're definately looking at roto-moulded plastic, the most common and cheapest kayak construction material.

Upsides to sit-on-tops:

1) Sit-on-tops are good as a fishing platform for bays and the ocean, since you don't need any skills to be able to get back on it if you were to fall off or tip over. Since sit-on-tops can't fill with water, you don't have to worry about that either.

2) Sit-on-tops are good for people who are uncomfortable with having their feet inside and semi-restrained, and they're also good for those who don't have good paddling/kayak skills.

3) They're very stable platforms for fishing, photography, or as a SCUBA base.

4) They're inexpensive.

Downsides:

1) Short sit-on-tops can't go fast, so you're going to be at the mercy of heavy currents. Don't take the kayak where the currents are going to take you where you don't want to go.

2) Sit-on-tops basically make you sit in the water all day vs traditional kayaks where you can be completely sealed from the elements. If the water is going to be cold, you need to either wear fully waterproof pants/dry suit or....be miserable. They also don't have large waterproof holds for keeping your gear dry.

3) They tend to be heavy and wide, so they take more effort to go a distance.

4) The seats are often not as comfortable as the newer traditional kayaks.

5) You can't carry as much gear with one (like for overnight trips, etc).



Basically, if you just want a platform for dinking around a bay with little to no current - and not travel very far, without having to learn much in the way of skills, and you've got gear to keep you dry (or are in warm water) - then a sit-on-top is the way to go. If I were you, I'd rent a few before settling on one. Be sure to buy a QUALITY paddle - a lightweight one with the appropriately-sized blades or else your arms/body/shoulders will tire quickly.
We're both n00bs as far as kayaks go, but living on the water looks like it'll be a lot of fun and a good work out for us both.

I can't say I'm too worried about hauling anything that won't fit in a zip lock bag under my leg, such as a camera and cell phone. No way would I plan on doing over night stuff, but good looking out.

Like I said, mostly I plan on doing some exploring sticking close to land.

What, as far as paddles, should we be looking for as a proper fit? Length? Paddle size? Ect? How do we know whats right?
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Old 12-27-2009, 01:57 PM   #17
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I think he'd have fun in the white X's, and I'll be looking to hit the red lines. We live in the red circle.

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Old 12-27-2009, 02:01 PM   #18
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paging WhiteH20....
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Old 12-27-2009, 02:16 PM   #19
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Quote:
I know my wants are completely different for my brother and I. He's gonna want to do some fishing from his, maybe taking it over to the ocean side and do some surfing, deep bay ****... who knows.
Definitely get 2 different singles, then. You can still go out together of course
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Old 12-27-2009, 02:32 PM   #20
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Definitely get 2 different singles, then. You can still go out together of course
Yeah... I don't see that happeneing. It's nice that he works days I work nights. even if we just get 1 nice kayak instead of 2, we'll both have time to spend on it. I'm so stoked!
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Old 12-27-2009, 03:13 PM   #21
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Storage in front of you = easier to access while you're on the water, without getting IN the water. I'd go Maui, though it looks like there may be less leg room, and IIRC you are pretty tall boys...
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Old 12-27-2009, 03:15 PM   #22
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We're both about 6'.
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Old 12-27-2009, 03:36 PM   #23
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I have a lot of time in/on both sit on top and sit inside kayaks. For what you are wanting, I would go sit inside no questions. Sit on top kayaks are better when you don't mind being more wet, you want to be able to get out and back in in the water (diving and swimming), and you will be in warm water all the time. My flatwater racing boats are sit on top (surfski) and they are a lot colder during the winter, and it is difficult to paddle even in flat water without getting wet.

I have paddled the Frenzy that you have listed in the first post, and I thought it was a very slow pig. Stable as a barge, but you don't need something stable enough to fly fish out of while standing up.

If I were in your situation, I would try to find something that is about 14' long and 23" wide. Get a comfortable life jacket, spraydeck, and a good paddle. You don't have to spring for a carbon paddle, but the lighter paddles make kayaking a lot more fun. The best advise that I can give you is to go find a store that will let you try a lot of different kinds of kayaks, and try as many as you can. Even try the long fast expensive ones just to see what is all out there and what is available. Once you paddle at least 5 boats, then you will have a better idea of what fits you and what feels best for you. Also try to find a group of kayakers to tag along with to get some good ideas from. I always try to go paddling with different groups to get a broad range of knowledge from different groups. Also, if one of them has a boat that looks like fun, ask if you can take it for a quick paddle. Most paddlers love to swap boats around to get a feel for what is out there.

For the budget you are looking to stay with, I would certainly try to find a used boat. All the boats that are in the $700ish range suck ass. They will be very heavy, slow, and not a lot of fun to paddle. This is a sad thing about kayaking that I have seen lately, is that people think kayaking looks like fun, but they don't want to spend a lot of money to get into it. They go out and get an inexpensive boat that isn't fun to paddle, and they think kayaking isn't fun because they don't have good gear. The good news is that places like Craigslist have lots of fairly nice used kayaks for good prices.

Something like:
http://annapolis.craigslist.org/boa/1508255211.html

Last edited by WhiteH2O; 12-27-2009 at 03:50 PM.
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Old 12-27-2009, 03:43 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by just smurfy View Post
. This smart ass response is what I get for spending my time on yoar thread? I was merely reminding you of everything your budget needs to cover. Next time I'll know better. I seriously hope you go for a long swim in the ocean without a vest and water fills your lungs.
LOL, of course a life jacket is in order but the whole time our MOM would remind us not to forget the life jacket.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Wevrick View Post
Your logic is backwards. With a sit-on model you are guaranteed to get wet. I would not want to use one with cold weather. With a sit-in model you wear a "skirt" that seals to a cockpit and keeps water out of the boat. Your lower body stays dry. For bad weather you wear a dry top or semi-dry top. example:
Yeah, that's what I meant. I like the idea of a sit on but the cold water makes me want to lean towards the sit in with a skirt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteH2O View Post
I have a lot of time in/on both sit on top and sit inside kayaks. For what you are wanting, I would go sit inside no questions. Sit on top kayaks are better when you don't mind being more wet, you want to be able to get out and back in in the water (diving and swimming), and you will be in warm water all the time. My flatwater racing boats are sit on top (surfski) and they are a lot colder during the winter, and it is difficult to paddle even in flat water without getting wet.

I have paddled the Frenzy that you have listed in the first post, and I thought it was a very slow pig. Stable as a barge, but you don't need something stable enough to fly fish out of while standing up.

If I were in your situation, I would try to find something that is about 14' long and 23" wide. Get a comfortable life jacket, spraydeck, and a good paddle. You don't have to spring for a carbon paddle, but the lighter paddles make kayaking a lot more fun.

I will look around to see if I can come up with a good example of what I would recommend.
huh......... back to being undecided

The salespeople we talked to ALL suggested the sit on because they are easier to manuever whereas the sit-in version you must work on finding you balance and the hassle of getting water in it.

Thanks for the info
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Old 12-27-2009, 03:51 PM   #25
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huh......... back to being undecided

The salespeople we talked to ALL suggested the sit on because they are easier to manuever whereas the sit-in version you must work on finding you balance and the hassle of getting water in it.

Thanks for the info
The first guy we talked to spoke as you did. He was all about the sit in style. I kinda tuned him out as I saw more potential for hoping in and out and being maneuverable. From then on the next 3 places we visited all said sit on top.

Now you have me thinking too...
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