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09-26-2001, 06:28 PM | #1 |
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Hey guys, I am thinking about an Oil Cooler
Any ideas about which one to use? I was thinking about something from like Summit racing or somthing. I don't like the idea of the STi water-oil cooler. I want the air-oil cooler. And I was thinking about something substantial like a 6 pass or something. Any ideas about a name brand to get? I was just wondering if anyone had any expierence with them.
I also know that there really is no huge need for one, but with the autox'ing that I am doing, and the amount of driving I am doing, I am thinking it may help my engine life. (shrug) who knows. Well any help would be great thanx Steve 99 White RS
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09-26-2001, 07:16 PM | #2 |
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Well, if oyu get the STi one, you'll know for sure that it works and fits properly! I know Paul just had one installed, so he'll probably chime in once he sees this.
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09-26-2001, 07:36 PM | #3 |
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I like my STI Oil Cooler, but I wonld not pay the Subaru Price. I bought mine for next to nothing, and it was only missing one $50 part (Paid $425 for an ACT Clutch and Oil Cooler, both new open boxed).
Any of those Summit or www.jegs.com Oil Coolers would work, just make sure you add extra oil. Paul G. |
09-26-2001, 08:55 PM | #4 |
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I've been researching oil coolers for a long time as part of my efforts to make the Mustang track-ready, just never got around to actually completing a setup. And, coincidentally, this just came up on the open track mailing list I subscribe to, so I've been thinking about it again.
A couple notes before I get to brand names and my actual suggestions: - First, if you want to do this right, it will be pretty damn expensive. You should use real braided stainless steel -AN lines, with real swivel seal threaded connectors of some sort. I'm not sure where the STi setup takes the oil from and where it returns to - you may be able to use the same locations. If not, you'll need a rather expensive sandwich plate between the block and oil filter. Etc, etc.... - Although for your purposes a multi-pass fin-and-tube type oil cooler will work and will probably be cheaper, what you should really look for is a stacked plate design. They are significantly more efficient than the old fin-and-tube type. - If you're set on using an oil-to-air cooler, you'll need a thermostatically controlled bypass. The STi oil-to-water cooler is nice in that it will maintain oil temperature relative to coolant temperature regardless of what the ambient air temperature is. An oil-to-air type cooler is going to try to maintain oil temp relative to ambient air temp - when ambient is only 20degF, that means your oil temp stays too low - unless you have a thermostatically controlled bypass in the system to keep the cooler out of the loop when you don't need it. OK, brands to look for, starting with the cheapest. PermaCool makes really inexpensive stuff. I'm sure it would work fine, but if we're going to do this, let's do it right, right? PermaCool is probably what Summit carries (although I haven't checked that). Another step up is Tru Cool - they make relatively inexpensive stacked plate oil coolers. At the high end are Setrab (a Swedish company), Mocal, Fluidyne, Aeroquip, and Earl's. They all make coolers, and Aeroquip and Earl's are also very well known for their braided hoses, hose fittings, etc - you'll find tons of their stuff in Summit or Jegs. My suggestion? Try to find stuff at the junkyard. Apparently 2nd gen RX-7s came with a factory oil-to-air cooler with a thermostat. Not sure how it was set up, but it's worth looking into. First gen M3s and all the air-cooled 911s (I think) also had thermostatically controlled oil-to-air setups. Probably starting to get more expensive to try to scavenge from the German makes, but again it might be worth looking into. I acquired two 8x11x1.5" stacked plate oil coolers from a couple of mid-to-late 80s Ford police cruisers. I also picked up the lines and a sandwich adapter (which will work on my 302-soon-to-be-351), all for $30 or something like that. I would bet that one of these coolers would be plenty for a 2.5L Subie motor. The cooler has AN10 fittings on it (as far as I can tell), so I can buy real lines to plumb it with rather than using rubber lines and hose clamps. That's all for now, but I have more info saved on my hard drive if anyone has any questions. I haven't referred to that yet, just going by memory thus far. Pat Olsen '97 Legacy 2.5GT sedan |
09-26-2001, 09:41 PM | #5 |
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Just so you know, this is how the STI Oil cooler works:
And a real pics: Pictures curtosy of AZScobby website. Paul G. |
09-26-2001, 09:55 PM | #6 |
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Pat thats awesome info, I am not sure what your talking about when you say the "stack" type of cooler. I have seen the multi pass fin type all over the place. But I don't think I have ever seen the stack type before.
And also from what I kinda gathered, you are kinda leaning towards the water-oil cooler, cause its less likely to run too cold. The only thing that I was thinking of, is that won't it run too warm. I am not sure how much cooler the exiting water from the radiator would be compared to the engine oil. Thats the only reason why I had said that I don't want the water-oil cooler. If I am way off here, then please tell me. Thanx for the great info, I will absolutly look into the used coolers for sure, that may be the way to go. Also thanx Paul for posting the images for the STi cooler. I haven't seen them before. Looks like a great unit, but its damn expensive from Subaru, thats another reason why I had kinda wanted to stay clear of it. But maybe if I can find one cheaper like you did. Also one more question, what about the new WRX, do they have oil coolers stock? Maybe I could use them, if they came with one. Thanx for all the info Steve 99 White RS |
09-26-2001, 10:49 PM | #7 |
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Steve, I am not sure about the WRX (With a turbo, I would not be surprised if it did), but the STI OIL COOLER is a factory installed part on the Forester's (maybe only the automatics, but I am not sure). You could make a call to F&S in Ct and see if they have any instock. Just make sure you get the new Thermostat housing, all the hoses, and the extra long threaded rod to extend the oil filter down (that's the part I was missing) that is in the top picture without a number or arrow (Directly over the word "NEED".
Paul G. |
09-26-2001, 10:56 PM | #8 |
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Paul,
Have you noticed any leaks from the filter? |
09-26-2001, 11:47 PM | #9 |
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Steve - The stacked plate type are pretty hard to describe. If you look here http://www.bakerprecision.com/trucool.htm you can see a blown up view of a portion of a Tru Cool stacked plate oil cooler. Basically, the oil comes in through a header at one end of the cooler, and travels through a whole bunch of kinda flat plates to get to the outlet header. The interior of the plates have some sort of fins to generate turbulent oil flow, and the exterior of the plates are designed to maximize air flow, so you can see there's lots of surface area for heat transfer. That's why the stacked plate type are more efficient than a similarly sized fin-and-tube type cooler.
I actually intend to use an oil-to-air cooler, I just wanted to be sure you understood the need for a thermostat. A track-only car wouldn't need to worry about that, but a street car needs to have that thermostatically controlled bypass or winter weather would result in your oil pump trying to pump paste rather than fluid. I'm almost positive the WRX has an oil cooler stock. I'll try to remember to check my sister's car tomorrow. Some links to check out: www.earlsperformance.com/html/ , www.fluidyne.com , http://www.batinc.net/mocal.htm . Perma-cool's website appears to be dead, it won't come up. Pat |
09-27-2001, 05:54 AM | #10 |
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Pete, I have not really checked under the car, but I know for a fact I don't have any puddles. I have not tried to get the filter off yet though either.
Paul G. |
09-27-2001, 08:48 AM | #11 |
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The reason I ask is since I installed my oil pressure gauge (it uses an adapter that is similar to an oil cooler and sits between the filter and engine block) there are srips of oil on the filter itself. So, it isn't a very big leak at all...not enough to leave a puddle. I was wondering if you got the same thing? So, you may want to take a look under there.
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09-27-2001, 10:22 AM | #12 |
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IMHO there's really no need for an oil cooler on these cars; even with the turbo and a 100 degree day, after 25 minutes on the track, my temps never got much above 215f. As a comparison, my M Coupe runs 215f during daily driving. I'd guess you are better off saving your money and putting it towards something more necessary. Just my 2c.
Ryan |
09-27-2001, 12:06 PM | #13 |
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But Ryan,
You drive like a big fat girl. Paul G. |
09-27-2001, 12:50 PM | #14 |
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Yeah, I do drive like m750's momma...
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09-27-2001, 04:20 PM | #15 |
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Pat, I figured that the stacked coolers were something like actual water-radiators. Its the same design as the coolant radiators, just smaller. I may go with something like that then. Plus I like that design much better than the silly tube style. I never thought they would do that much good anyway.
I know our cars don't "Need" them, but I am thinking that it can't hurt, if it will make my car last 50,000 miles longer, than its worth it to me. But thats just because I plan on racing it until she dies. And hopefully its a long time before that happens. I am thinking that if I can stop the wearing from using parts that cost some money, its worth it in the long run. Maybe I am wasting my money, who knows. But I think its worth trying to make my engine last as long as I possibly can. I am using the synthetic oils, and using only the good gas, and I am trying to see if I can break my own record of 207,000 miles on my last car. And I want to be racing it at 200,000 miles, so if every little bit helps, than it can't hurt to try. Steve 99 White RS |
09-28-2001, 10:57 AM | #16 |
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MOCAL
I am installing a 13 row MOCAL oil cooler under the hood scoop. The system also has a thermostat which open up at ~180. All braided lines.
SEN |
09-28-2001, 04:12 PM | #17 |
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You know thats exactly what I had in mind, to run the cooler under the scoop, like an intercooler . I will do some research, but so far it seems like the way to go is the stacked cooler, with braided lines and fittings, and a thermostat. Thanx for the info guys, I will start to look around for something.
Steve 99 White RS |
09-28-2001, 09:24 PM | #18 |
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B&M Supercoolers can be used for engine oil coolers, and they are of the stacked plate design. I have one for my tranny fluid. THey have a race version that has AN fittings. I believe they sell a bypass valve so that oil will not get cooled below a certain temperature.
Check out www.bmracing.com for more info. What you'd probably want to get is: 70259 Thermostatic control valve 70266* SuperCooler 28,000 GVW 11"x8"x1-1/2" I think summit racing or carparts.com sell B&M parts. |
09-28-2001, 09:32 PM | #19 |
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Yes I saw that company in Summit also. That is an option that I may go with also. I think it all depends on who has the best stuff for the least expensive. (read as... going to spend lots on money, but will want to save a few bucks if possible) I am not going to go out and by a cheap ol' piece of garbage just to save money. I am going to look for a good cooler for a moderat price. Just wanted to clear that up.
Thanx for the idea mhj, it all helps. Steve 99 White RS |
09-29-2001, 05:19 PM | #20 |
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Changed the oil on my sister's car today and confirmed that the WRX does have a factory oil cooler. It's an oil-to-water cooler, similar to the STi/Forester setup.
If you're going to use a tranny cooler as an engine oil cooler, ensure it has large enough passages. Tranny coolers tend to be smaller than engine oil coolers. Pat |
05-24-2020, 12:17 AM | #21 |
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anyone have a hose part number for the coolant bypass?
is there anything OEM or perhaps any other hose that can be cut for the right bends? it's a little more than just a 90, which is why I'm asking. |
05-24-2020, 09:25 PM | #22 |
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WOW what a bump!
that's super easy to find on any of the subaru dealer's part diagrams. Select your car, then go under Engine and Cooling/OIL COOLER (ENGINE) |
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