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Old 08-04-2021, 07:37 PM   #76
mcarb002
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The thing yíall donít understand is that according to Pre, only 80 year olds drive sedans. Hence why itís very baffling that you guys are over 80 with kids. Maybe adopted?
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Old 08-04-2021, 07:55 PM   #77
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The thing yíall donít understand is that according to Pre, only 80 year olds drive sedans. Hence why itís very baffling that you guys are over 80 with kids. Maybe adopted?
My kids would love to ride in the back of a Blackwing. 4 seats is definitely a plus for us.

They love my Si.
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Old 08-04-2021, 08:09 PM   #78
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My kids would love to ride in the back of a Blackwing. 4 seats is definitely a plus for us.

They love my Si.
Let me guess, so you can take trips to Starbucks and IKEA on such a ginormous boat. Ughhh you Americans have such bad taste hahahaha
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Old 08-04-2021, 08:53 PM   #79
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I like the direction this thread is headed in.
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Old 08-04-2021, 08:55 PM   #80
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I like the direction this thread is headed in.
Now we just need you to somehow tie the Caddy to Tom ďGranolaĒ Doll.
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Old 08-04-2021, 11:41 PM   #81
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Hey Pre, it's a dumb idea to wrap the back of the seat in Alcantara and not put it on the actual seating surface.

You've got this crazy view of people with kids, it's clear you don't have any, don't want any, and don't have any real experience with them, and that's fine, you made that choice.

It's a sedan, four doors, the cabin is so small that you can't fit an average sized adult (5'-10") behind an average sized adult in it.

It's a sedan, four doors, people are going to put kids back there; heck people stuff kids in the back of anything with four seats (Mustangs, Challengers, Camaros etc.) I just don't put kids in the back of a coupe on a daily basis, so when a sedan with some performance leanings comes out, I take interest; I'd rather a wagon, but that isn't going to happen under 6-figures apparently.

My IS350 works as a family hauler, the only drawback is lack of cargo space because it's a sedan, but it does daily duties just fine; it has heated & ventilated leatherette/"NuLuxe" seating surfaces and seat backs, my 7YOs feet hit the seat backs while he is in his booster seat, it wipes clean easily. Beyond that, when I have rear passengers, if they hit it on the way in our out of the car with their shoes, it wipes clean. It's a durable material that still feels and looks nice.

Are you telling me the IS350 F-Sport that I bought isn't a family car because it has some level of handling/acceleration ability? So every four door BMW, Audi, Porsche, Cadillac, Lexus etc. with any inklings toward performance are performance cars only and shouldn't have children in the back of them, ever? They aren't just reasonably quick and good handling daily drivers that kids can be put in the back of? is the RS6 Avant a performance car only, relegated to track duty? or is it an upscale performance family hauler for the guy/gal who doesn't want another CUV/SUV?

Isn't your whole thing that "performance cars shouldn't have doors for rear passengers"? I mean that was the stink you made about the Yaris GR-4 "it should only be a 3dr hatch" because RALLYCAR or whatever your justification was.

Maybe you need to stop looking for sedans to be all out performance cars for you, maybe you should stick to the myriad of performance coupes on the market; I can guarantee you that the majority of sedan buyers have kids, regardless of performance level.

Hey Pre, just to reiterate, just for you, it's a dumb idea to wrap the back of the seat in Alcantara and not put it on the actual seating surface.
If you don't understand that, or just willingly refuse to understand that, then there is probably a carbon fiber toilet with an Alcantara wrapped seat in your future.
No all Iím telling you, at all, is that this car, a blackwing, the Alcantara seat backs, if thatís your cheese and wine, you were never going to buy it anyway so there is no point in even getting upset about it. In the grand scheme of things itís just a non-starter. If it was an Accord, Camry, I mean a lot of sedans sure, but a Blackwing? I get it now from your other posts as well. Whatever it is, it needs to be designed with children in mind. The whole world and all the things do. Got it.
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Old 08-04-2021, 11:52 PM   #82
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No all Iím telling you, at all, is that this car, a blackwing, the Alcantara seat backs, if thatís your cheese and wine, you were never going to buy it anyway so there is no point in even getting upset about it. In the grand scheme of things itís just a non-starter. If it was an Accord, Camry, I mean a lot of sedans sure, but a Blackwing? I get it now from your other posts as well. Whatever it is, it needs to be designed with children in mind. The whole world and all the things do. Got it.
I mean, my grandfather owned a CTS-V before he passed away. He carted around my kids a few times...

Seats will be filled by kids, adults, dogs, etc. They're designed around an adult because you can't design a seat around a kid - you put them in car seats and boosters until they're adult sized. Do you somehow think that the captains chairs in mini-vans are designed for kids? If it's seat fabric you are concerned about, I think the perforated leather in the back of our outback is absolutely terrible for a dog/kid/family friendly vehicle. Those sorts of choices don't preclude a car being used by a child.
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Old 08-05-2021, 12:26 AM   #83
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Now we just need you to somehow tie the Caddy to Tom ďGranolaĒ Doll.
Tom Doll thinks Buick is too edgy.
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Old 08-05-2021, 08:00 AM   #84
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No all Iím telling you, at all, is that this car, a blackwing, the Alcantara seat backs, if thatís your cheese and wine, you were never going to buy it anyway so there is no point in even getting upset about it. In the grand scheme of things itís just a non-starter. If it was an Accord, Camry, I mean a lot of sedans sure, but a Blackwing? I get it now from your other posts as well. Whatever it is, it needs to be designed with children in mind. The whole world and all the things do. Got it.
All I'm saying, and really read the words, Alcantara, on the seat backs, and not the seating surfaces is a dumb idea. Does it kill the car for me? no, is it a dumb idea? hell yes it's a dumb idea.
Alcantara on the seating surfaces? great idea, that's what the material is designed for, but GM did not do that, they put it only on the seat backs.

I have kids, I consider them in every decision I make, it's almost as if, wait for it, they are my kids, and I have to consider them in every decision I make.

I did not say every vehicle ever made has to be made for children, I did say that if it's a four door, rear passengers, which in my case includes children, as well as adults, have to be considered, because if it's a four door, likely, there will be rear passengers, otherwise, why have a four door at all? Cadillac (and others) have done the ho-hum sedan version, and a high performance coupe version, but Cadillac didn't, they went the four door route for the high performance version, ergo, rear passengers. These high performance sedans aren't targeting Cadillacs historic demo either, they are going after younger buyers; Cadillac literally stated as much with the prior attempts (CTS-V & ATS-V for example). This car is literally in the same class as the car I currently own, why wouldn't I consider it?

Flat out Pre, do you think that it was a good idea to put Alcantara on the back of the seats and not on the seating surface? Or do you agree that it was a dumb idea? Or, will you keep dodging the question because you're so damn full of yourself and you can't admit you were wrong and are only arguing for the sake of arguing?
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Old 08-05-2021, 09:11 AM   #85
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Don't get me wrong, I love Alcantara, it's super grippy, my issue is that in this case The Alcantara is only on the seat backs in an extremely cramped back seat - so any back passenger (I'm 5'-10) is going to ruin that extremely misplaced material when their knees rub against it (or feet in the case of my kids).

I repeat - Alcantara is not on:
The front seating surface (for grip - where it should be)
The steering wheel (for grip, I don't want an Alcantara wrapped wheel though)
The dash (glare reduction)
or even the shift boot (bling?)

Alcantara is on:
The backs of the front seats in an extremely cramped passenger area.

Were the entire seat covered in Alcantara I'd give it a pass, but some interior designer or whatever at GM decided yeah I'm going to put this useful grippy material in the absolute most useless place conceivable in the interior; they may as well have put it on the hood, at least it would cut down on glare.

EDIT:


I didn't know the configurator was up, same - I like ventilated seats now that I have them, but not the massive package you have to get in order to get them in the caddy; I mean I'm sure I'd like massaging seats, but with my issue with curb weight, I'll pass on them here, as well as the aforementioned issue I take with the location of the Alcantara on the damn seatbacks but not where your body goes.
Had to look back in the thread to see what you guys are talking about.

Yeah I agree, any kids under like 10 are gonna be constantly putting their dirty shoes on the back of the seat. Look at the back of the front seats of anyone with kids. That should be leather. Back seats should not be unbolstered leather or the passengers will be sliding all over the place.

But as I said this car wasn't designed for kids or even backseat passengers, they didn't care - it's only a sedan cause that's what they had to work with.
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Old 08-05-2021, 12:02 PM   #86
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This thread is so dang fun... it has been dull a while, I dedicate my second cup of coffee to all of you fine people.
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Old 08-05-2021, 07:19 PM   #87
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All I'm saying, and really read the words, Alcantara, on the seat backs, and not the seating surfaces is a dumb idea. Does it kill the car for me? no, is it a dumb idea? hell yes it's a dumb idea.
Alcantara on the seating surfaces? great idea, that's what the material is designed for, but GM did not do that, they put it only on the seat backs.

I have kids, I consider them in every decision I make, it's almost as if, wait for it, they are my kids, and I have to consider them in every decision I make.

I did not say every vehicle ever made has to be made for children, I did say that if it's a four door, rear passengers, which in my case includes children, as well as adults, have to be considered, because if it's a four door, likely, there will be rear passengers, otherwise, why have a four door at all? Cadillac (and others) have done the ho-hum sedan version, and a high performance coupe version, but Cadillac didn't, they went the four door route for the high performance version, ergo, rear passengers. These high performance sedans aren't targeting Cadillacs historic demo either, they are going after younger buyers; Cadillac literally stated as much with the prior attempts (CTS-V & ATS-V for example). This car is literally in the same class as the car I currently own, why wouldn't I consider it?

Flat out Pre, do you think that it was a good idea to put Alcantara on the back of the seats and not on the seating surface? Or do you agree that it was a dumb idea? Or, will you keep dodging the question because you're so damn full of yourself and you can't admit you were wrong and are only arguing for the sake of arguing?
Listen man. I respect you, your family, your children.

Let me rephrase this another way Ok? Vale announced his retirement this morning at Spielberg, and Iím gutted beyond belief. My last hero I will ever have is hanging them up and itís a sad day. Not like when my only family member died last year of covid or when my best friend died, just a very sad day.

So in the interest in extending the hand, and not being my blunt usual self. I hear ya dude. But I will also say, if you have the kind of money where you can afford a 60-80k performance sedanÖÖ.then you have the money to buy it (once say ADM isnít thing, or whatever) and run it by the local upholstery shop and get rid of that Alcantara. You know how much work it is to have it swapped out to fabric, leather, whatever you want? Not much, and itís not that expensive.

And my point, was in the grand scheme of things, the seat backs are a deal breaker? If you say so. Kids, no kids, putting a filthy dog back there, some Alcantara seat backs, whether you like them, hate them, think itís awesome, or completely stupid, is just nothing in the grand scheme of things, it really isnít. Manuals are drying up like the Sahara desert. If you want a sedan, want performance, want a 6MT, the seats shouldnít stop you. We just donít have an abundance of things like this. And I think some people just need to relent to owning say a vehicle designed to shuttle kids around, AND a performance car of some kind. For what the Blackwing cost, mid equipped or max, you could have a very nice Van and a performance car like say the new BRZ for what it costs. Or a STi and a more kid friendly vehicle.

and fwiw. I actually have friends And many of them have children. Iíve baby sat (not infants, thatís a no go), shuttled them around, etc, countless times. Date nights, vacay gap until the grandparents can get there, etc. You know what my no questions demand is? I use their vehicle. They arenít allowed in mine. I know full well what goes on. Kicking the chair, spilling S. I mean dude there is a reason I never wanted them. Kudos to all you dads. God bless.
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Old 08-05-2021, 08:02 PM   #88
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Listen man. I respect you, your family, your children.

Let me rephrase this another way Ok? Vale announced his retirement this morning at Spielberg, and Iím gutted beyond belief. My last hero I will ever have is hanging them up and itís a sad day. Not like when my only family member died last year of covid or when my best friend died, just a very sad day.

So in the interest in extending the hand, and not being my blunt usual self. I hear ya dude. But I will also say, if you have the kind of money where you can afford a 60-80k performance sedanÖÖ.then you have the money to buy it (once say ADM isnít thing, or whatever) and run it by the local upholstery shop and get rid of that Alcantara. You know how much work it is to have it swapped out to fabric, leather, whatever you want? Not much, and itís not that expensive.

And my point, was in the grand scheme of things, the seat backs are a deal breaker? If you say so. Kids, no kids, putting a filthy dog back there, some Alcantara seat backs, whether you like them, hate them, think itís awesome, or completely stupid, is just nothing in the grand scheme of things, it really isnít. Manuals are drying up like the Sahara desert. If you want a sedan, want performance, want a 6MT, the seats shouldnít stop you. We just donít have an abundance of things like this. And I think some people just need to relent to owning say a vehicle designed to shuttle kids around, AND a performance car of some kind. For what the Blackwing cost, mid equipped or max, you could have a very nice Van and a performance car like say the new BRZ for what it costs. Or a STi and a more kid friendly vehicle.

and fwiw. I actually have friends And many of them have children. Iíve baby sat (not infants, thatís a no go), shuttled them around, etc, countless times. Date nights, vacay gap until the grandparents can get there, etc. You know what my no questions demand is? I use their vehicle. They arenít allowed in mine. I know full well what goes on. Kicking the chair, spilling S. I mean dude there is a reason I never wanted them. Kudos to all you dads. God bless.
RWD, check
400+ HP, check
6mT, check
Alcantara seat back, thatís it, Iím buying a minivan!

Donít need to feel sympathy for us dads though, it has its own rewards, like when your kid tries gokarting for the first time and loves it.

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Old 08-06-2021, 08:52 AM   #89
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All I'm saying, and really read the words, Alcantara, on the seat backs, and not the seating surfaces is a dumb idea. Does it kill the car for me? no, is it a dumb idea? hell yes it's a dumb idea

Flat out Pre, do you think that it was a good idea to put Alcantara on the back of the seats and not on the seating surface? Or do you agree that it was a dumb idea? Or, will you keep dodging the question because you're so damn full of yourself and you can't admit you were wrong and are only arguing for the sake of arguing?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Pre View Post
Listen man. I respect you, your family, your children.

Let me rephrase this another way Ok? Vale announced his retirement this morning at Spielberg, and Iím gutted beyond belief. My last hero I will ever have is hanging them up and itís a sad day. Not like when my only family member died last year of covid or when my best friend died, just a very sad day.

So in the interest in extending the hand, and not being my blunt usual self. I hear ya dude. But I will also say, if you have the kind of money where you can afford a 60-80k performance sedanÖÖ.then you have the money to buy it (once say ADM isnít thing, or whatever) and run it by the local upholstery shop and get rid of that Alcantara. You know how much work it is to have it swapped out to fabric, leather, whatever you want? Not much, and itís not that expensive.

And my point, was in the grand scheme of things, the seat backs are a deal breaker? If you say so. Kids, no kids, putting a filthy dog back there, some Alcantara seat backs, whether you like them, hate them, think itís awesome, or completely stupid, is just nothing in the grand scheme of things, it really isnít. Manuals are drying up like the Sahara desert. If you want a sedan, want performance, want a 6MT, the seats shouldnít stop you. We just donít have an abundance of things like this. And I think some people just need to relent to owning say a vehicle designed to shuttle kids around, AND a performance car of some kind. For what the Blackwing cost, mid equipped or max, you could have a very nice Van and a performance car like say the new BRZ for what it costs. Or a STi and a more kid friendly vehicle.

and fwiw. I actually have friends And many of them have children. Iíve baby sat (not infants, thatís a no go), shuttled them around, etc, countless times. Date nights, vacay gap until the grandparents can get there, etc. You know what my no questions demand is? I use their vehicle. They arenít allowed in mine. I know full well what goes on. Kicking the chair, spilling S. I mean dude there is a reason I never wanted them. Kudos to all you dads. God bless.
Quote me without reading what I've written, platitude, ramble on to deflect, and not respond to a direct question, obligatory platitude to close it all out; are you running for office?
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Old 08-06-2021, 10:30 AM   #90
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Quote me without reading what I've written, platitude, ramble on to deflect, and not respond to a direct question, obligatory platitude to close it all out; are you running for office?

No I'm too busy petitioning all mfr's of performance saloons to install Alcantara seatbacks to make your head f'in explode.
I need to contact Toyota and Subaru also and tell them to nix the upcoming 86/BRZ also. It's not a kid friendly vehicle.

You after reading Alcantara seatbacks on a 60k-80k performance saloon:



Me, after reading Alcantara seatbacks:



I read all your posts. I still don't think it's that big of a deal at all, and think you are blowing a gasket, and total overkill. It's such a problem for you, simple, don't buy the car.
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Old 08-11-2021, 02:56 PM   #91
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Old 08-11-2021, 02:56 PM   #92
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