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Old 02-13-2017, 10:16 AM   #1
maperformance
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Default Maperformance 4-1 Equal Length Headers... *These Results Are Worth Viewing*

So as you all know, we released a header a couple months back... The main feedback we got was "how much power does it make compared to ________" , or something along the lines of "looks awesome, but how do I know it will make power ?". I am pleased to announce that question and then some have been answered.

Our friends over at Street Car factory in Arizona got a couple of these headers and did some testing the results... well the results F*****G rock.

The first test car we did testing on was a 2008 WRX Hatchback (next test will be on a big turbo car) the mod list is as follows:

2008 WRX Hatchback
Built Stage 2 SCF Short Block
Stock Heads
04 STi 6 speed
Speed Density
TurboXS FMIC
Stock Inlet Sized, internal Wastegate FP Green
Cobb v3
MAP 4-1 Header
Agency Power Up Pipe
ID1000s
DW300 Fuel Pump










Here's a side by side comparison with the MAP ELH vs AP ELH (one of the best on the market). We gained about 70whp throughout the powerband and 500rpm in spool time with the MAP ELH vs the Agency Power ELH and a new peak gain of 34whp. This header nets more power than almost any other ELH on the market and has a much more responsive power-band. I'm at a loss for words, I didn't expect that significant of a gain. The mods on the car are simple and this header really makes it come alive!!!


first graph with the agency power header:



second run with the headers swapped out to our MAP Ej Series EL Header.




The results speak for themselves here folks!


For those who don't know about our header here are some features:

  1. 100% Made In The USA
  2. 4-1 design for increased efficiency
  3. Crafted from 304 Rathgibson stainless steel
  4. Utilizes a merge collector center cone to improve flow
  5. 1/2 inch thick up-pipe flange to prevent warping
  6. Flat sanded flanges to ensure a leak free design
  7. Four 1.750 inch runners merge to a 2.250 up tube
  8. WARRANTIED FOR LIFE!!!!!!!!!!!!


Pick up a set now by shooting us a pm or giving me a call direct 651-348-8811 ext 108

Current early adopter pricing on this header is $900, retail is $999.99, they are built in house and almost always are stocked but if they aren't don't worry our world class welders can crank these out in about a week to a week and a half!




Pick your set up now in time for the upcoming race season!
-Leo
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Old 02-13-2017, 03:36 PM   #2
blurred
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Can you show a pic of the inside of the merge collector?
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Old 03-12-2017, 02:49 PM   #3
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Can you show a pic of the inside of the merge collector?
This.
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Old 02-13-2017, 04:18 PM   #4
Frank 17 STI
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I want it tested against Killer B Headers. Convince me to make the switch.
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Old 02-14-2017, 09:15 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Frank 17 STI View Post
I want it tested against Killer B Headers. Convince me to make the switch.
This before I whip out the credit card
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Old 02-13-2017, 04:19 PM   #6
Trustkevin13
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how does this even compare to killer b then?
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Old 02-13-2017, 09:09 PM   #7
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no tuning at all? just header swap in regards to comparison? same day? same temp?
If so, outstanding results.
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Old 02-13-2017, 10:22 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by Boxer112 View Post
no tuning at all? just header swap in regards to comparison? same day? same temp?
If so, outstanding results.
in for the same info. amazing gains if its a straight swapped header. would love to see the boost plots as well.
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Old 02-14-2017, 05:34 AM   #9
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So I'm interested in why this header would gain "more power than any other EL header out there" when it is basically a copy of what is already available. Both this design and the Perrin redesign have copied the Killer Bee primaries and have a less efficient collector. I don't buy that this will make more power. Since no one does true independent, back-to-back testing with the exact same car on the same dyno on the same day with the same tuner with competing products, I guess you're free to claim what you like, but by looking at the product it obviously doesn't offer any magical advantages.
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Old 02-14-2017, 07:51 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by A-man07 View Post
So I'm interested in why this header would gain "more power than any other EL header out there" when it is basically a copy of what is already available. Both this design and the Perrin redesign have copied the Killer Bee primaries and have a less efficient collector. I don't buy that this will make more power. Since no one does true independent, back-to-back testing with the exact same car on the same dyno on the same day with the same tuner with competing products, I guess you're free to claim what you like, but by looking at the product it obviously doesn't offer any magical advantages.
Totally agree man. I mean look at KB headers on a similarly sized turbo over Stock manifolds. I posted this in their other thread in the built motor section.

Quote:
Call me skeptical but KillerB headers would be a stretch to make this much power over another equal length.

Also change the smoothing to 5 on the other graph and watch your numbers drop.

Here is a comparo between stock header and killer b headers on a ATP 3076 (similar sized turbo) car. Yes different dynos but you can still take a look at the gains between the 2.
Here is a 20g stock header vs KB.
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Old 02-14-2017, 06:03 AM   #11
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I have the perrin E4 series newer headers. I don't see why these would make much more power but they do look like a nice option
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Old 02-14-2017, 09:50 AM   #12
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Agency Power is one of the best headers on the market?! LOL! Probably one of the worst EL headers available.

Can you explain the process between the AP testing and MAP testing? It looks like the engine being dropped in already has the MAP header on it, did you swap the AP back on for testing after or was the AP graph on the old engine (what I'm assuming).
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Old 02-14-2017, 12:07 PM   #13
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Can you post the graphs in MPH overlayed instead of RPM? Looking at the graphs I am willing to bet that the non MAP header test is done in 3rd gear vs the MAP header in 4th gear which will easily gain 500 RPM of spool up. The next thing I will mention is how bad the spool up is to begin with. A FP Green on E will hit peak TQ around 4-4500rpm, not 5500rpm... I can post up the graph like I did on the FB post.


Either way the testing is very skewed.


Jr
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Old 02-14-2017, 12:14 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior2JZ View Post
Can you post the graphs in MPH overlayed instead of RPM? Looking at the graphs I am willing to bet that the non MAP header test is done in 3rd gear vs the MAP header in 4th gear which will easily gain 500 RPM of spool up. The next thing I will mention is how bad the spool up is to begin with. A FP Green on E will hit peak TQ around 4-4500rpm, not 5500rpm... I can post up the graph like I did on the FB post.


Either way the testing is very skewed.


Jr
Thank god you said something. I felt like I was taking crazy pills.
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Old 02-14-2017, 01:14 PM   #15
maperformance
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I would be happy to send you a free manifold for you to test, so you can create any kind of made up results you want. Good or bad...Let me know!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior2JZ View Post
Can you post the graphs in MPH overlayed instead of RPM? Looking at the graphs I am willing to bet that the non MAP header test is done in 3rd gear vs the MAP header in 4th gear which will easily gain 500 RPM of spool up. The next thing I will mention is how bad the spool up is to begin with. A FP Green on E will hit peak TQ around 4-4500rpm, not 5500rpm... I can post up the graph like I did on the FB post.


Either way the testing is very skewed.


Jr
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Old 02-14-2017, 01:20 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by maperformance View Post
I would be happy to send you a free manifold for you to test, so you can create any kind of made up results you want. Good or bad...Let me know!

IF** You sent one to Prime for testing, and the results where mediocre the underlined portion of your reply tells me how it would work out anyway.
I'll ask D if he wants to take you up on the testing though.

Nothing wrong with coming to market with a "new" product, its the way you advertise/test it and post up BS that is the issue. I'm all for betterment of the platform, but lets try and be truthful about it.

Jr
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Old 02-14-2017, 01:23 PM   #17
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I would be happy to send one to Prime at no cost. I know you are not fond of us, and that's fine. But the point of this isn't to provide "skew" numbers at all. We would be happy to get third party testing in able to provide positive criticism to our products so we can improve them. Nothing more, nothing less.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior2JZ View Post
IF** You sent one to Prime for testing, and the results where mediocre the underlined portion of your reply tells me how it would work out anyway.
I'll ask D if he wants to take you up on the testing though.

Nothing wrong with coming to market with a "new" product, its the way you advertise/test it and post up BS that is the issue. I'm all for betterment of the platform, but lets try and be truthful about it.

Jr
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Old 02-14-2017, 01:51 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maperformance View Post
I would be happy to send one to Prime at no cost. I know you are not fond of us, and that's fine. But the point of this isn't to provide "skew" numbers at all. We would be happy to get third party testing in able to provide positive criticism to our products so we can improve them. Nothing more, nothing less.
Send them out

ATT: Jrtuned
33 Curie Ave
Wallington NJ 07057
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Old 02-14-2017, 12:18 PM   #19
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The spool difference is probably what jr said gear wise. The late tq is probably just the tuner being safe or not knowing what's going on.

I could see it making power and tq over a cheap header but it's highly unlikely over a great header that it's picking up any power or tq. If it was a super small primary setup I could see it spool better but make less power.
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Old 02-14-2017, 12:28 PM   #20
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Originally Posted by stretchedk7 View Post
The spool difference is probably what jr said gear wise. The late tq is probably just the tuner being safe or not knowing what's going on.

I could see it making power and tq over a cheap header but it's highly unlikely over a great header that it's picking up any power or tq. If it was a super small primary setup I could see it spool better but make less power.

Even then, picking up that much power over any equal length is nuts when KB Header doesn't pick up that much over an OEM UEL. Also as I said, if they put smoothing to 5 on their graph for the MAP Header it would drop the peak numbers.
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Old 02-14-2017, 01:10 PM   #21
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Originally Posted by Delphi View Post
Even then, picking up that much power over any equal length is nuts when KB Header doesn't pick up that much over an OEM UEL. Also as I said, if they put smoothing to 5 on their graph for the MAP Header it would drop the peak numbers.
Yeah quite a few variables that could skew results! And yeah thats true about the huge gains
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Old 02-14-2017, 01:15 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stretchedk7 View Post
The spool difference is probably what jr said gear wise. The late tq is probably just the tuner being safe or not knowing what's going on.

I could see it making power and tq over a cheap header but it's highly unlikely over a great header that it's picking up any power or tq. If it was a super small primary setup I could see it spool better but make less power.
What would be safe about making it spool 1000-1500rpm later then it should when it has a built motor and 6spd on E? Also you can ramp in boost, that is not ramping in looking at the curve, it literally just spools like **** with and without the header.
Ill go with not knowing OR the car has a problem.
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Old 02-14-2017, 01:18 PM   #23
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You were offered a free header for testing...So you can decide weather or not to find out the truth...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior2JZ View Post
What would be safe about making it spool 1000-1500rpm later then it should when it has a built motor and 6spd on E? Also you can ramp in boost, that is not ramping in looking at the curve, it literally just spools like **** with and without the header.
Ill go with not knowing OR the car has a problem.
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Old 02-14-2017, 03:35 PM   #24
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Default Maperformance 4-1 Equal Length Headers... *These Results Are Worth Viewing*

Quote:
Originally Posted by Junior2JZ View Post
What would be safe about making it spool 1000-1500rpm later then it should when it has a built motor and 6spd on E? Also you can ramp in boost, that is not ramping in looking at the curve, it literally just spools like **** with and without the header.

Ill go with not knowing OR the car has a problem.


Yeah good point about e and built engine. Really no reason at all not to let it eat timing wise and bring in all the boosts asap.


Sweeet about back to back testing!! Numbers don't lie.
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Old 02-14-2017, 12:42 PM   #25
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Sounds like myth busted to me.
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