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Old 07-15-2020, 09:57 PM   #1
Unabomber
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OMGHi2U PPG 5MT rebuild, new clutch, new LSD, oh my!

So after 14 years and 230,000 miles I had my transmission rebuilt. I took my car to Yates Auto (https://www.facebook.com/pages/categ...2591611232712/) in Gaithersburg, MD. Andrew Yates is the reason we have PPG as an option in America and I'm proud to have (likely) the oldest PPG gearbox in the nation.

This weekend Andrew removed the trans, rebuilt it, installed the trans....all in one day. Amazing! He had me order a full synchro set and bring it with me which ran ~$300. The only issue was the 5th/reverse selector which was cracked...I had no clue and it could have been cracked for a day or 10 years. Everything looked cherry but we swapped out all the synchros for funsies.

He also installed a PPG front torsen differential because racecar. Also going in was a new driveshaft, Kartboy transmission mount bushings, and a Group N transmission mount. So I finally have zero OEM bushings left in my car and 100% of them have been swapped out.

Previously installed was a South Bend KSB03-SS-TZ Stage 3 Endurance clutch prior to my last tune. Amazing clutch as its a legit savage unit yet has the pedal feel of a brand new Toyota econbox. Only slight roughness is in reverse for some reason...every other gear is butter smooth and easy.

New differential is a hoot. Best way to put it is if you are in a corner with the wheel turned...if you let go of the wheel...it will autocenter in .25 seconds and you will die in a fire as you'll go straight off the road. This is further complicated by the quicker ratio 16+ steering rack I installed a few years back. Steering with my knee is no longer an option.

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Old 07-21-2020, 11:41 AM   #2
kos
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Looks good! Nice to see someone that knows how to drive their stuff
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Old 08-18-2020, 04:02 PM   #3
corvaru
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Looks clean, thanks for the pics
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Old 08-18-2020, 04:13 PM   #4
murrdogg24
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trans pron haha
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Old 08-28-2020, 03:01 PM   #5
makikogi
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would you recommend an upgraded 5 speed trans or a sti 6 speed swap? I called yates auto about a week ago and they're on vaca all this week. I'm hoping to hear from them early next week...
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Old 09-08-2020, 06:42 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makikogi View Post
would you recommend an upgraded 5 speed trans or a sti 6 speed swap? I called yates auto about a week ago and they're on vaca all this week. I'm hoping to hear from them early next week...
Likely yes, but entirely depends on you and what you are using your care for and your power. I'm never going to have chest thumping horsepower as my car is a daily. I had no need/want for the 6 speed drama...doing Brembo swaps, wheel swaps, using the right driveshaft, hubs and axles. Plus no one mentions that 99% of 6 speed swaps are using a used transmission. With PPG gears, you get 0 mile gears and its a far simpler swap: drop trans, remove old, install new, put trans back in.

Now if you have 500+ HP, you do some flavor of legit racing with your car, or other factor, there needs to be a bigger discussion.
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Old 09-10-2020, 12:50 AM   #7
makikogi
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I was able to speak with someone from Yates Auto and I'm scheduled to come in next week and talk through some of my goals so I make the right choice. I'm really grateful they do business that way. I'm currently on a built motor, twin scroll 365whp and 357lb/ft so I'm at my limits of my gear box. I'm grinding into 3rd every time I push the car, and now 4th gear is hard to get into. I also get this weird thing where my clutch goes limp for about a minute and goes back to normal when I ease off and drive normal.

I think a 5 speed upgrade is the right choice, according to PPG they're supposed to be good up to 450hp, I don't know if that's whp or not, but either way should be fine. My car is tuned and modded to be a fun DD. I've done a few auto-x but that's really not the main goal of the car. I want a fun, safe reliable DD that I could autox from time to time just to have fun.

Thanks unabomber, I always appreciate your data based objective recommendations
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Old 09-10-2020, 01:43 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Unabomber View Post
Now if you have 500+ HP, you do some flavor of legit racing with your car, or other factor, there needs to be a bigger discussion.
So let's have that discussion! I've been sitting quietly on the sidelines with a presumed blown center diff in the JDM 5-speed that came in my EJ20G-swapped '87 Subaru RX. I'll be putting down at least 300 whp once the car is back on the road and while I'm not abusive to my cars, I don't plan to baby this car, it will see plenty of autoX and open track time.

Cost wise, a built 5-speed is about the same as a 6-speed. The 5-speed will weigh less and as Unabomber mentioned, will have "0-miles" once built. 6-speeds will generally have a front LSD, which would add cost to a 5-speed build.

I doubt I'll ever see 500 hp, but 350+ is a mark we may reach. Not a dedicated race car either, but the intent is to keep track miles on this car, and off the DDs.
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Old 09-11-2020, 03:26 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by car_freak85 View Post
So let's have that discussion! I've been sitting quietly on the sidelines with a presumed blown center diff in the JDM 5-speed that came in my EJ20G-swapped '87 Subaru RX. I'll be putting down at least 300 whp once the car is back on the road and while I'm not abusive to my cars, I don't plan to baby this car, it will see plenty of autoX and open track time.

Cost wise, a built 5-speed is about the same as a 6-speed. The 5-speed will weigh less and as Unabomber mentioned, will have "0-miles" once built. 6-speeds will generally have a front LSD, which would add cost to a 5-speed build.

I doubt I'll ever see 500 hp, but 350+ is a mark we may reach. Not a dedicated race car either, but the intent is to keep track miles on this car, and off the DDs.
First off- Ron- congrats on the refreshed trans and good to hear it's holding up well. My PPG trans has also held up well with 335 whp for years with front and rear clutch diffs and slick tires on asphalt. Hope you like the new front diff- I want to switch to a torsen front diff in the near future. I think it will be better than my current 1 way clutch.

Car Freak- It really depends on the class(es) you want to be competitive in, if you care about being competitive, and the current setup you have. If you have a 5 speed with a DCCD center diff, I would go with a gear and front diff upgrade, as it will be lighter and really have no downsides compared to a 6 speed. If weight doesn't matter for the class or you don't really care about the extra 80 lbs, the 6 speed will be cheaper and stronger for the same cost. The DCCD is very important from a performance standpoint with either option as the performance upgrade is huge. That said- if you don't have ABS on your car it is a wasted upgrade until you do install all the sensors and brake line plumbing.

So the question you have asked is FAR more complex than A vs B. It's more about total cost and your ability to perform upgrades vs. the performance that you are going for.
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Old 09-11-2020, 10:58 AM   #10
makikogi
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So I'm a little confused, because I think a used 6 speed trans by itself cost about as much as a 5 speed upgraded gearbox, but don't you also need to do rear axles, rear diff, clutch, flywheel, 6 speed shifter and driveshaft for the 6 speed swap? Not to mention if you want the full swap you'll need new suspension (different knuckles), brake setup to accommodate the brembo's, wheels for the different lug pattern and brake clearance, DCCD map controller if you go with the r180 rear diff unless you want to keep the 65/35 rear/front split ratio. Surely the cost doesn't add up to be around the same does it?

I've read in other threads as well people saying they cost the same, where is my info wrong?
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Old 09-14-2020, 07:57 PM   #11
FuJi K
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makikogi View Post
So I'm a little confused, because I think a used 6 speed trans by itself cost about as much as a 5 speed upgraded gearbox, but don't you also need to do rear axles, rear diff, clutch, flywheel, 6 speed shifter and driveshaft for the 6 speed swap? Not to mention if you want the full swap you'll need new suspension (different knuckles), brake setup to accommodate the brembo's, wheels for the different lug pattern and brake clearance, DCCD map controller if you go with the r180 rear diff unless you want to keep the 65/35 rear/front split ratio. Surely the cost doesn't add up to be around the same does it?

I've read in other threads as well people saying they cost the same, where is my info wrong?
You can do a 6spd swap using your R160 and stock WRX brakes as long as you have a matching rear diff ratio. However to fully benefit from the 6spd is to have the R180 clutch LSD and bigger rear brake shoes for e-brake slides, and stronger axles for when launching, clutch kicking.

so.... do you REALLY drive your car in a manner that requires the rest of the driveline or not?
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Old 09-18-2020, 02:54 PM   #12
car_freak85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by speedyHAM View Post
Car Freak- It really depends on the class(es) you want to be competitive in, if you care about being competitive, and the current setup you have. If you have a 5 speed with a DCCD center diff, I would go with a gear and front diff upgrade, as it will be lighter and really have no downsides compared to a 6 speed. If weight doesn't matter for the class or you don't really care about the extra 80 lbs, the 6 speed will be cheaper and stronger for the same cost. The DCCD is very important from a performance standpoint with either option as the performance upgrade is huge. That said- if you don't have ABS on your car it is a wasted upgrade until you do install all the sensors and brake line plumbing.

So the question you have asked is FAR more complex than A vs B. It's more about total cost and your ability to perform upgrades vs. the performance that you are going for.
With the car already having an engine swap, I'm already at the deep end of the swimming pool. This chassis never was delivered with ABS, so adding active DCCD will be a chore. I could pretty easily add it to the front, but would probably be looking at custom machined parts to run tone rings in the rear (semi-trailing arm rear suspension, nothing like the EJ rear susp.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by makikogi View Post
So I'm a little confused, because I think a used 6 speed trans by itself cost about as much as a 5 speed upgraded gearbox, but don't you also need to do rear axles, rear diff, clutch, flywheel, 6 speed shifter and driveshaft for the 6 speed swap? Not to mention if you want the full swap you'll need new suspension (different knuckles), brake setup to accommodate the brembo's, wheels for the different lug pattern and brake clearance, DCCD map controller if you go with the r180 rear diff unless you want to keep the 65/35 rear/front split ratio. Surely the cost doesn't add up to be around the same does it?

I've read in other threads as well people saying they cost the same, where is my info wrong?
My front axles are stock WRX parts, knuckles are from an XT6, but the driveshaft and rear axles are modified or have custom bearing races to mix and match CVs to axle shafts. It's all either custom, modified EJ parts, or leftovers from the EA chassis.
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Old 10-08-2020, 04:28 PM   #13
makikogi
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Just wanted to update and give a shout out to Yates Auto in Gaithersburg MD. Andrew Yates is the subaru transmission Yoda! Fantastic service, I called the shop and after taking in my initial issues we scheduled a meeting to sit and talk with Andrew Yates to discuss my goals, my budget, my expectations etc. Such a chill guy and very relaxed atmosphere.

We settled with on 1-4 synchro'd PPG gear set, billet fork and pivot ball, new set of synchros and all the other accoutrements that go with the gear swap. Unfortunately because of the virus, the gears are due to come in December, but thankfully I can still drive the car normally without any issues.

After all the parts and estimated labor cost I was quoted just about $5,500.
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