Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday March 28, 2024
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Technical > Subaru Conversions

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-18-2005, 03:19 AM   #1
swapstar
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 102779
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: JDM land filling a container
Vehicle:
1998 PM if u need
JDM bits.....

Default ok. who actually knows ej20K electronics and ej20G electronics well?

ok. trying to figure out this puzzle of mine;


ej20g notes:

- coil on plug. 4 plug ecu (unless u have late 96/97), RA versions had option of 5th injector, Sti-RA had 5th injector for the most part

ej20K notes:

intake plumbing under intake manifold
coilpack (waste spark)
differnt intake box system - angled thing on side with straight inlet into turbo instead of 90deg like ej20G

questions:

#1 question- what the heck does the 5th injector do on the ej20G sti-RA's
-i believe Power FC cannot control the 5th injector. true/false?
#2 is coil on plug ej20g better than ej20K/207 v1 waste spark?
#3 whats more powerful; Powerfc for EJ20G or powerfc for Ej20K. or the same
-im assuming the ej20K ecu is smarter than the ej20G
#4 anyone have flow comparisons between Ej20G style intake manifold and ej20K intake manifold?
-the bendy side thing vs a McDonalds arch type
#5 anyone have proof if a ej20K fmic kit will fit a ej20G? Jaxx?

also. anyone have a comparison between VF23 and Td05 16G?


--sorry for the complex post, just trying to figure out the holes that my puzzle is playing......


trying to figure out how (or if i want to) put this v4 sti-RA engine in place of a v2 sti-ra, and what ecu (or powerFC) and what wiring harness bundle to power it with.....
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
swapstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 12-18-2005, 11:18 AM   #2
d00f
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 6000
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Ottawa, Canada
Vehicle:
2000 GC8 STi V4 swap
BRP

Default

1) no experience I've heard of some people using it for water injection
2) I prefer the wasted spark because you can then upgrade your coils. COP is good because there are no wires to deal with but the coils are expensive. Trust me, I blew 4 on a customer's car trying to get his POS buggy haltech system to work. That was an expensive day for me.

3) no experience

4) The EJ20K is slightly larger on the runners but there is no significant difference in flow.

5) it will require some minor modifications any good performance/fabrication shop can perform.

-Michael
d00f is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2005, 02:05 PM   #3
swapstar
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 102779
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: JDM land filling a container
Vehicle:
1998 PM if u need
JDM bits.....

Default

hmm

you know the differances on the COP's with the white middles and the black middles? both seem to be interchangeable-

h
swapstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2005, 02:57 PM   #4
Jaxx
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 177
Join Date: Aug 1999
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Vehicle:
The 93 W/EJ20K-sold
Subaru-less :(

Default

5.hmm maybe the throttle body on the G is closer to the firewall.. a k intercooler setup should fit your engine
Jaxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2005, 03:07 PM   #5
swapstar
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 102779
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: JDM land filling a container
Vehicle:
1998 PM if u need
JDM bits.....

Default

my concern with fmic kits for K's is that the side inlet 90 deg turbo in might get in the way of the fmic cold pipe. anyone have experiances with this?
swapstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2005, 09:33 PM   #6
redwagon
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 2181
Join Date: Aug 2000
Chapter/Region: SCIC
Location: So Cal
Vehicle:
2003 Forester XS

Default

As you know, the Taiwan GTs have an EJ20G but are wasted spark. My man here told me a lot of kids spend the bucks to fit the COP system, but there doesn't seem to be any performance benefit and he claims the spark isn't as strong as the coilpack's anyway.
redwagon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-18-2005, 10:47 PM   #7
rob
n00b Moderator
Moderator
 
Member#: 811
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: WA
Vehicle:
2000 RS-Ej20G
It tastes like burning

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by swapstar
#1 question- what the heck does the 5th injector do on the ej20G sti-RA's
-i believe Power FC cannot control the 5th injector. true/false?
#2 is coil on plug ej20g better than ej20K/207 v1 waste spark?
#1) In the JDM wiring diagram, the 5th injector is not controlled by the ECU. Ground is direct and power comes from the Ignition relay. Doesn't make sense to me.

#2) From what I have read from experience Haltech tuners is that the COP is junk and a changing over to later style WS is advised.

-Rob
rob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2005, 10:45 AM   #8
Jaxx
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 177
Join Date: Aug 1999
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Vehicle:
The 93 W/EJ20K-sold
Subaru-less :(

Default

his motor is the much later G from a wagon/automatic. it looks like a ej20k with intake under the runners
Jaxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2005, 04:06 PM   #9
swapstar
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 102779
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: JDM land filling a container
Vehicle:
1998 PM if u need
JDM bits.....

Default

my ej20G is the olderstyle sti-ra with the 5th injector and the 90 deg inlet. who's late model G are you talking about?

so is it beneficial to swap to the K electronics?

i have spare cop's so im not worried about that-

any one else with experiance?
swapstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-19-2005, 11:32 PM   #10
snowman4us
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 21764
Join Date: Jul 2002
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Salty Lake
Vehicle:
Some GDM V8,
JDM Flat 4 X2

Default

just curious, where is the injector located? and are you sure its controled by ignition and not by the pcm?
snowman4us is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2005, 10:50 AM   #11
Jaxx
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 177
Join Date: Aug 1999
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Vehicle:
The 93 W/EJ20K-sold
Subaru-less :(

Default

woops got you confused with some one else ...
i bought this guy
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...category=33742
it will work with the 90 inlet but you will have to do a differnt intake of some flavor
is going to need fab work any way to mount BOV
-j
Jaxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2005, 12:51 PM   #12
rob
n00b Moderator
Moderator
 
Member#: 811
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: WA
Vehicle:
2000 RS-Ej20G
It tastes like burning

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowman4us
just curious, where is the injector located? and are you sure its controled by ignition and not by the pcm?

They are mounted on top of the manifold. Someone will have to trace wires to verify, but that's what the JDM impreza wiring manual shows. Reading from the manual, from the 5th injector connector, a Black-Blue wire goes straight to GE ground on the left strut tower, and a Red-White wire going to plug E2 (engine harness connector near the battery), connected to B4 (the bulkhead wiring connector connecting to E2), it changes color to Yellow-Green, then goes to connector B112 pin 4, which connects to the ignition relay.

Well hold on.......... So in one copy of the wiring diagram, someone had written that the relay was an "Ignition relay" so I didn't bother looking at the control wires. This relay is actually controlled by the ECU, so it's not an ignition relay at all. It goes back to the 26 pin ECU connector as Yellow-Black wire. This is an interesting find because in the UK manual this pin controls the Purge solenoid. Hmm, I have to update my notes for when I wire mine in.

So, I was wrong it is controlled by the ECU through this additional relay. This means it's not a PWM signal like a typical injector. It is either a cold start injector or a simple enrichment injector that turns on under certain load/RPM conditions (assuming it has fuel, not water going to it).

I need to get some parts of the wiring pages translated to see if that clears this up.

-Rob
rob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2005, 02:30 PM   #13
rob
n00b Moderator
Moderator
 
Member#: 811
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: WA
Vehicle:
2000 RS-Ej20G
It tastes like burning

Default

Digging around on the UK board, Scoobynet, the common opinions are the 5th injector;

-Does nothing unless used with a GroupN ECU. Homologation rules required it be fitted to the road cars even if it didn't do anything. Others have said it's not actually hooked up to the ECU (could have made the same mistake in the diagrams that I did)

-Is used for cold start operation.

In general there is still a lot of confusion and questions asked about it since UK didn't get this model either (but imports do show up).

-Rob
rob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2005, 02:56 PM   #14
rob
n00b Moderator
Moderator
 
Member#: 811
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: WA
Vehicle:
2000 RS-Ej20G
It tastes like burning

Default

Picture of the 5th injector;

rob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2005, 03:04 PM   #15
swapstar
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 102779
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: JDM land filling a container
Vehicle:
1998 PM if u need
JDM bits.....

Default

what year is that guy? im guessing WRX-RA, or 94? most OG sti ej20G has powersteering cooler and square ps pumpy.

hmm.. where to get a group-N ecu.....
swapstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2005, 03:55 PM   #16
rob
n00b Moderator
Moderator
 
Member#: 811
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: WA
Vehicle:
2000 RS-Ej20G
It tastes like burning

Default

probably a '94 or '95 WRX-RA. From what I have found only theWRX-RA and STi WRX-RAs MY'94-95 ('96 maybe??) came with these injectors. They were standard and not optional as I remember reading in another conversion thread. Also looks like a big negative on the power FC utilizing the 5th injector.
rob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2005, 04:08 PM   #17
swapstar
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 102779
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: JDM land filling a container
Vehicle:
1998 PM if u need
JDM bits.....

Default

so i guess my real question is:

IF i can get a group N ecu or some way to tune my stock ecu well, is it:

worth it to keep the 5th injector setup?

or just swap over to the entire ej20K setup. i have EVERYTHING to do it, just trying to figure out if its worth the trouble of me R&R ing it all

rob- can your smart engineer brain give me some simulations?
swapstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2005, 04:17 PM   #18
Jaxx
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 177
Join Date: Aug 1999
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Austin, Texas, USA
Vehicle:
The 93 W/EJ20K-sold
Subaru-less :(

Default

hmm intersting where does it connect to the fuel rail..
Jaxx is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2005, 04:40 PM   #19
rob
n00b Moderator
Moderator
 
Member#: 811
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: WA
Vehicle:
2000 RS-Ej20G
It tastes like burning

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaxx
hmm intersting where does it connect to the fuel rail..
Only thing I have found is this picture which shows the connections after the parallel fuel rail mod.

http://server3.uploadit.org/files/ja...rallelFuel.jpg
rob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2005, 04:52 PM   #20
rob
n00b Moderator
Moderator
 
Member#: 811
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: WA
Vehicle:
2000 RS-Ej20G
It tastes like burning

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by swapstar
so i guess my real question is:

IF i can get a group N ecu or some way to tune my stock ecu well, is it:

worth it to keep the 5th injector setup?

or just swap over to the entire ej20K setup. i have EVERYTHING to do it, just trying to figure out if its worth the trouble of me R&R ing it all

rob- can your smart engineer brain give me some simulations?
RE: figuring a way to run the 5th injector:
I compute it would be a waste of farkin' time.

Now I think your real question is, do you swap out your running ver2 STi-RA motor, for Ver4 STi-RA motor? I'd say **** ya mofo, but I don't really know the specific differences. Have to go back and read my Impreza reference book...

-Rob
rob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-20-2005, 08:36 PM   #21
swapstar
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 102779
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: JDM land filling a container
Vehicle:
1998 PM if u need
JDM bits.....

Default

yes. that is the bottom line question. to do it or not, and if i should run the Ej20G electronic system or the EJ20K......


wonder wonder wonderers.

my current motor is also a highcomp 9:1. spooks up the bottom end torque Quick
swapstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2005, 01:35 AM   #22
snowman4us
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 21764
Join Date: Jul 2002
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Salty Lake
Vehicle:
Some GDM V8,
JDM Flat 4 X2

Default

that extra injector makes no sense. for cold starts they can just increase the duty cycle on the injectors to get extra fuel (like every other car does). and even for race/ high load sitatons the injector cycle can be increased.

and i would say it is worth putting in the V4. becoue every year subaru made good improvements to the motors, not sure what they are but i do belive that the V4 had better heads.
and as for using the ej20G wiring, im pritty sure it wont work. sense the older motors are coil on plug and the V4 is a waist spark(correct me if im wrong). and i think that the ECU plugs might be different as well.

rob- would you have EJ20H wiring diagrams by any chance?
snowman4us is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2005, 02:00 AM   #23
rob
n00b Moderator
Moderator
 
Member#: 811
Join Date: Jan 2000
Location: WA
Vehicle:
2000 RS-Ej20G
It tastes like burning

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by snowman4us
that extra injector makes no sense. for cold starts they can just increase the duty cycle on the injectors to get extra fuel (like every other car does). and even for race/ high load sitatons the injector cycle can be increased.

rob- would you have EJ20H wiring diagrams by any chance?
Toyota used seperate cold start injectors for many years. Not sure exactly what benefit that scheme is. Perhaps you get less dropping out of the fuel onto the port walls if you do a short spray further upstream. The point for high load situations is to use it when you start to max out your standard injectors. Again it's not uncommon.

I don't have those diagrams, sorry.

-Rob
rob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2005, 02:14 AM   #24
snowman4us
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 21764
Join Date: Jul 2002
Chapter/Region: RMIC
Location: Salty Lake
Vehicle:
Some GDM V8,
JDM Flat 4 X2

Default

well by spraying the fuel higher up it has a better chance of condensing back into droplets and collecting on the walls of the manifold. (on reason carborators suck so bad)
fuel is at its finest mist right after it leaves the injector and about to go into the combstion chamber. by having injectors as close as you can to the combustion chamber the high temps insure that the fuel stays in a mist/ vapor form and not in liquid form. however by having them close to the CC the temps can effect the injector itself. thats my .o2 on that one.

thanks anyways about the diagrams.
snowman4us is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-21-2005, 03:48 AM   #25
swapstar
*** Banned ***
 
Member#: 102779
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: JDM land filling a container
Vehicle:
1998 PM if u need
JDM bits.....

Default

i could convert the V4 to full v2 elecs. thats easy as pie, just swap engine harnesses and bolt on teh cop's

hmm.. i wonders...
swapstar is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Who here has a mechanically and/or electronically creative imagination? Hites Off-Topic 18 08-07-2008 08:51 PM
Who would know?. US-Spec and Euro-Spec? WrxStiSwe Normally Aspirated Powertrain 3 10-24-2006 10:53 PM
Ok...who was it? (t-shirt and pee in butt related) DrBuzzad Off-Topic 2 06-13-2006 01:11 PM
ok, who knows about fluorescent lights and ballasts? Matt K Off-Topic 24 04-26-2006 09:31 AM
Ok..who was in orangeburg today and yesyerday? Tats Tri-State Area Forum 16 03-12-2004 02:15 PM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:50 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission
Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.