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11-01-2017, 03:08 PM | #1 |
Scooby Newbie
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STI vs Group N Trans Mounts
Is there a difference between STI and Group N trans mounts?
I have a 03 WRX MT and the stock trans mount is not filled in like the STI mount. The group N mount looks the same as the STI mount. If there is a difference, I assume the group N mount has a stiffer material. How can you tell them apart? Are there different part numbers / stampings? Researching on this forum I found people stating there is no way to tell the STI from the group N because it is the same mold but the materials are in fact different. In that thread, the information did not seem to me to be definitive. Can someone confirm? Thanks.
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11-01-2017, 03:15 PM | #2 |
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As far as I know, they’re the same as STi
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11-01-2017, 03:26 PM | #3 |
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Same visually and functionally? Same material? Exactly the same?
So this is true: STI's use group N mounts so a STI mount is group N. These names, group N and STI, can be used interchangeably. Thanks for the reply. |
11-01-2017, 04:52 PM | #4 |
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They are the same.
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11-01-2017, 08:36 PM | #5 |
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No, they're not.
6MT mounts: 41022FE010 Transmission Mount (STI) - Hard ST410224S000 Transmission Mount (GpN) - Harder ST410224S040 Transmission Mount (Competition) - Hardest The competition model also has "STi" painted on the sides, but visually, they are impossible to tell the difference once you get them out of the box (all three are marked with the 41022FE010 part no.). I've had all three on the workbench at the same time, and the hardness of the three is definitely different. Competition (RSD sells this as GpN, but technically this is incorrect): The Group N mount was created during a time when the durometer of the rubber was limited by FIA GpN regulations. The competition mount was offered alongside this as a non-homologated option and was even stiffer. No GpN parts were equipped on a factory car - the USDM STI was equipped with some parts that were exclusive to the Spec C in Japan, however. 5MT mounts are where it gets fun... the last GpN homologated Subaru with a 5 speed rolled off the assembly line before 2000, so these parts are pretty ancient. 41022AC180 - Standard GC mount (5MT) Soft 41022FE020 - Standard GD mount (5MT) Soft D1010FE020 - GpN mount (5MT) Hard S2/MB3/505 - GpN mount (5MT) < this was a standard GC mount filled with additional rubber by Prodrive Last edited by mrsaturn7085; 11-01-2017 at 08:51 PM. |
11-01-2017, 08:47 PM | #6 |
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11-01-2017, 09:26 PM | #7 | |
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Quote:
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11-02-2017, 01:18 AM | #8 | |
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Quote:
41022FE010 (OEM part) = Stock ST410224S000 (STI option part) = "Rubber hardness improvement product over OEM" ST410224S040 (GpN part) = "Further improve rubber hardness for Group N competition over product ST410224S000" - notes say 'below 80Hs' which I believe means 80A, but it may be using a different scale - this note is referencing the FIA requirement. And what they feel like: 41022FE010 = wet chewing gum ST410224S000 = dried-up chewing gum ST410224S040 = could probably hammer a nail with the face of the rubber Good enough for you? Feel free to buy the 5MT ones to test yourself - I have no need for those mounts. Last edited by mrsaturn7085; 11-02-2017 at 01:36 AM. |
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11-02-2017, 08:51 AM | #9 | |
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Quote:
I'd actually like to see the durometer #'s for each of these parts. It is the only true way to compare between one and the other. When I had my 5MT, I switched out the original engine & transmission mounts to what was universally described as the "GrpN" mounts, which were also generally described as the "STi" mounts. Again, they were generally accepted as being one and the same at that time. I would have to look up the P/N on my spreadsheet at home to determine exactly which P/N I actually installed, but they were definitely stiffer than the OEM. Even if I actually installed the STi mounts, as opposed to the true GrpN mounts, they are still a far cry stiffer than the OEM mounts. Last edited by Samurai Jack; 11-02-2017 at 10:20 AM. |
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11-02-2017, 12:22 PM | #10 |
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They're my own, obviously - while I have access to a durometer tester at my job, I'd have to cut a chunk of rubber out of the mount to actually fit it under the plunger as it's a bench-top unit with only enough clearance for tiny parts and not a handheld one.
The only durometer number I can confirm is that they're all below "80Hs" which is likely around 80A. The part that had me mixed up initially is that I had the transmission mount confused with the GD rear diff. mount. This is the part that has a standard > GpN > Competition model, with the competition mount exceeding '80Hs'. |
11-02-2017, 03:14 PM | #11 |
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I believe the durometer ratings are " somewhere " here in the NASIOC forums. Pretty sure I saw them "way back when" but it probably would take a lot of effort to find them.
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11-02-2017, 04:06 PM | #12 |
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11-02-2017, 05:28 PM | #13 |
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Awesome info all.
Thanks! |
11-02-2017, 06:08 PM | #14 |
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My opinion, FWIW........new almost anything is better than an oil soaked weathered stock mount.
In your case, a 14yo mount. Who is going to be in the car, are you running a lot more power than stock? If a DD and sorta stock power, even a new OEM mount is a plus, beyond that sounds like bragging rights. You chose. When I changed engine and trans mounts, mine were old and I did a 50% power upgrade.......so, to early stock WRX power. If you're stock and have sensitive passengers, new stock is likely fine, group N is a small upgrade. |
11-02-2017, 07:31 PM | #15 |
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I bought new grp N motor mounts and got a used (40k mi.) 08 STI solid rubber trans mount which should be better than my 100K mi stock wrx mount which has voids in the rubber for more flex.
Power wise I'm going for reliability #1 but couldn't pass up the crank swap for the stroker. I'll stick with the stock TD04 to start. I also got the flat trans bushings from the 08 STI and returned the Kartboys. How much do these matter? Will the new 08 STIs be different than my 03 WRXs? The 08 STIs are way softer than the Kartboys were. |
11-03-2017, 07:19 AM | #16 | |
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11-03-2017, 09:47 AM | #17 | |
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11-03-2017, 12:24 PM | #18 |
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I found that over on IWSTI before responding, but chose to leave it out since it only actually lists one mount related to this topic.
It does seem to show that 80Hs is not the same as 80A since the bushing produced 88A in test... problem is I can't seem to find which scale uses the abbrev. 'Hs'... and there's a ton: Rockwell Shore Vickers Brinell Knoop Leeb Rebound I got curious and pulled up the CURRENT FIA regulations (Appendix J, Art. 254): "A silent block may be replaced with a new silent block, of which the shape is free and the maximum hardness is 80 shores -Type A." So there you go - GpN bushings are 80A. ref: https://www.fia.com/file/61688/downl...token=GTh_pd7N |
11-12-2017, 02:11 AM | #19 |
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04-06-2018, 02:42 PM | #20 | |
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Quote:
I actually bought 3 of the ST410224S040 from overseas. I figured I can bring down the shipping costs (each) by buying a few and then just selling the other 2 for a reasonable price (compared to the only US vendor) to folks who are also interested. I'll post them up for sale when I get them. |
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11-14-2018, 05:39 PM | #21 | |
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11-14-2018, 08:16 PM | #22 |
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You will hear the gears a little but it's fine for street driving.
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04-09-2019, 01:58 PM | #23 |
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I'm selling 2 of the ST410224S040. Please look for me in the classifieds.
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09-22-2019, 04:31 AM | #24 |
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I’m interested in buying one from you the 040 version.
Take a look at you inbox. Thanks, Konstantinos |
11-14-2019, 07:55 PM | #25 |
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I just bought the GpN tranny mount! My 06 WRX is in bad shape bushing-wise.
Thanks for the good discussion and I'll write back once it's installed! |
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