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09-23-2014, 12:01 PM | #76 |
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Posted this in another thread a while back but it's for this build so:
Based on some formulas from this thread on Nabisco I overlaid how much air my planned 2.334 liter motor can pump at various RPM's and Pressure Ratio's (PR). I'm trying to choose the correct size turbo for SCCA's X Prepared class. X Axis is Lb of Air/Min Pumped (Lb/Min). Y Axis is Pressure Ratio (a.k.a. Boost). The colored lines represent how much air can be pumped through the 2.334 liter motor at a given RPM as the PR changes. This is a purely mathematical exercise assuming 100% efficiency at Sea Level Air pressure. PR of 0.0 = Perfect Vacuum PR of 1.0 = Zero Boost, Wide Open Throttle PR of 1.5 = 7.4 psi of boost PR of 2.0 = 14.7 psi of boost PR of 2.5 = 22.1 psi of boost PR of 3.0 = 29.4 psi of boost PR of 4.0 = 44.1 psi of boost Here's the GTX2867R compressor map under a 2.334L motor at various RPM's and Pressure Ratio's. At 2000 RPM the turbo's starting to get past the surge line (beginning to spool up). Turbo's full spooled at 3000RPM for Pressure Ratios 2.0 - 3.0. Peak HP should hit about 5000 - 5500 RPM, pushing 46 lb/min (460 hp +/- 5%) at PR 2.7. The GTX2867R will exceed it's choke line (a.k.a. gas out) at 7250 RPM pushing 36 lb/min at a PR of 1.5. Here's the GTX3076R compressor map under a 2.334L motor at various RPM's and Pressure Ratio's. At 3000 RPM the turbo's starting to get past the surge line (beginning to spool up). Turbo's full spooled at 3750RPM for Pressure Ratios 2.0 - 3.0. Limiting ourselves to PR's under 3.0 peak HP should hit about 6250 - 7000 RPM at PR from 3.0 to 2.7, pushing ~62 lb/min (625 hp +/- 5%). If limited to a PR's of 2.5 peak HP should hit about 7400 RPM, pushing ~61 lb/min (615 hp +/- 5%). If limited to a PR's of 2.0 peak HP should hit about 8400 RPM, pushing ~56 lb/min (565 hp +/- 5%)The GTX3076R will exceed it's choke line (a.k.a. gas out) at 8800 RPM pushing 46 lb/min (460 hp +/- 5%) at a PR of 1.6. Here's the GTX3576R compressor map under a 2.334L motor at various RPM's and Pressure Ratio's. At 3000 RPM the turbo's starting to get past the surge line (beginning to spool up). Turbo's full spooled at 4000 RPM for Pressure Ratios 2.0 - 3.0. Limiting ourselves to PR's under 3.0 Peak HP should hit about 6400 - 7100 RPM at PR from 3.0 to 2.4, pushing ~62.5 lb/min (630 hp +/- 5%). The GTX3576R will exceed it's choke line (a.k.a. gas out) at 9,100 RPM pushing ~47.5 lb/min (480 hp +/- 5%) at a PR of 1.6. Here's the GTX3582R compressor map under a 2.334L motor at various RPM's and Pressure Ratio's. At 3800 RPM the turbo's starting to get past the surge line (beginning to spool up). Turbo's full spooled at 4250 RPM for Pressure Ratios 2.0 - 3.0. Limiting ourselves to PR's under 3.0 Peak HP should hit about 7600 - 8300 RPM at PR from 3.0 to 2.7, pushing ~76 lb/min (765 hp +/- 5%). The GTX3582R will exceed it's choke line (a.k.a. gas out) at 10,500 RPM pushing ~62 lb/min (625 hp +/- 5%) at a PR of 1.75. Overall: The GTX2867R would seem to be an excellent 'street' turbo. Powerband running from 3000 to 7250 rpm. Boost would almost always be available for the duck and dart of street driving. You won't have to spin a 2.334 liter up to crazyville to use the whole thing. The GTX3076R is more of the 'track day' turbo. Powerband running from 3750 to 8800 RPM. If caught out cruising in low RPM's you'll experience turbo lag. But if geared correctly, with head work to prevent the valves from floating, you'd have a track-day hero. But you've got to get those RPM's up to use it properly. The GTX3582R is the 'drag' turbo. Powerband starting at 4250 and continuing up as high as you can spin it. I'm not even sure you could build a Subaru EJ 2.334 to take 10,500 RPM. But you can brag on the internet about how many hp's you' got on the dyno. Keep in mind you could also adjust these by running larger or smaller A/R turbine housing, to shift the maps a bit.
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09-23-2014, 12:01 PM | #77 |
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Did the GTX3067R, and GTX3071R just for comparison. |
09-23-2014, 12:05 PM | #78 | |
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Ultimately decided on the BorgWarner EFR 7163 with Twinscroll and Internal Wastegate. It's perfect for my application.
Quote:
You're right. That EFR 7163 looks amazing on BorgWarners MatchBot Application. Thanks for the tip. |
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10-08-2014, 05:15 PM | #79 |
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Happy day! I finally acquired all the parts for the rotating assembly to get balanced. Dropped it all off at the machine shop.
Crankshaft Rods Rod bearings Pistons Piston Rings Wrist Pins Timing gear/teeth Flywheel Pressure Plate Bolts for the lot Told 'em to balance it for up to 9300 RPM. That's the most it'll ever see, but a little more head room would be nice and bring peace of mind. |
03-11-2015, 04:56 PM | #80 |
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http://i.imgur.com/WRrYEqo.jpg
Getting ready to assemble the short block. Lots of cleaning and measuring going on. Top piston rings gapped at .020" Per JE Pistons instructions for these pistons for this application. 2nd piston rings gapped at .022" once again per JE. Rod bearing clearances measured (with bore gauges and micrometers accurate to .00005") to be .0012". Found the King XP (?) rod bearings to not have much variation between them. Only had to to do one swap of bearing sets from Rod 1 and 4 to get .0012" clearance on all. Otherwise it would have been .00115", .0012", .0012", .00125". (1 ---> 4). http://i.imgur.com/cqlGWWo.jpg Used a rod bolt stretch gauge to get the rod bolts on correctly. Probably the most critical fasteners to get correct in a high spinning motor. Glad I did too. My rods came with ARP's L19 Rod Bolts (Yes, I used gloves. Yes, I wiped 'em off with acetone. Yes, I coated them oil and lube). 3/8-24 thread. 1.6 inch grip length. ARP recommended that I install the bolts so that they stretched .0055" - .006". And even with ARP's special faster lube I found that each bolt needed varying amounts of torque to stretch properly. Two only needed 47.5 ft-lb. On two others I stopped using the torque wrench at 55 ft-lb and just tightened each one up ~ 15 degrees and remeasured until they stretched .006" exactly. I see why ARP recommends using stretch instead of torque to set these correct. 6 of my 8 rod bolts would have been under stretched if I had just gone by torque alone. |
03-11-2015, 05:05 PM | #81 |
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Other than some minor issues I had a good outing at an SCR event at Michelin Proving Grounds in South Carolina.
https://youtu.be/7nxtmUJyN3U?list=UU...gLyDlo5iNxi1OA |
03-11-2015, 05:08 PM | #82 |
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I highly recommend Cusco or Beatrush mounts. The engine moved around so much it broke the coolant tank on the frame brace. I put in Beatrush and they are awesome..
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03-11-2015, 05:12 PM | #83 |
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03-11-2015, 05:26 PM | #84 |
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I'm hesitant to show you....
I 1/4 20 rivnut'd the bottom X 3 to the top of the side skirt. Then I drilled holes along the front and back and tie wrapped them to the frame with large black tie wraps. I did this for two reasons. The first is I am going to trim 1.5" off the inside fronts to a line 0" on the inside back. This will give me another 1.5" between the fender and door instead of cutting out the door like others have. Secondly I need to get my intrusion panels(on their way) so I can trim the skirt and install the intrusion panels. Then I will do something more permanent. |
03-14-2015, 09:31 PM | #85 | |
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http://i.imgur.com/1rMyeZi.jpg
Split the case again to install the main crankshaft bearings so I could get a bore gauge in there. Getting consistent readings on a bore gauge that's supposed to be accurate to 0.00005" takes a bit of effort for an amateur, like myself. Did all this so I could calculate the mains' bearing clearances. Didn't want to trust plastigauge. Using bunches of measurements for the crankshaft and several for the main bore w/bearings my oil clearance are calculated to be: #1 ---> .00165" #2 ---> .0019" #3 ---> .00165" #4 ---> .0019" #5 ---> .00165" According to research done by King Bearings (click to nerd out), main Journal clearance for a 2.3625" diameter should be: 0.0012"--->0.0024" for a daily driver passenger car or 0.0018"--->0.0035" for a "High performance" car So it looks like I'm running a little tight on 1, 3, & 5 for my high performance application. But well within the specs for a car. 1, 3, & 5 are also the bearings that feed the rod bearings oil. Quoting from the above linked, King Bearing, white paper: Quote:
So if I just run them as they sit the oil will tend to get hotter at a track day than one might like. But for AutoX, or driving to a show-n-shine I should be fine. |
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03-15-2015, 02:54 PM | #86 |
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Upon a remeasuring I found out where I ****ed up.
http://i.imgur.com/3vxehfY.jpg Bearings 2 & 4 don't have an obvious groove for oil in them like 1, 3, or 5 do. So the first time, I just measured the bore right in the middle of 2 & 4. Don't do that. 2 & 4 have a slight dish to them. The middle of the 2 & 4 bearings measure at 2.3644" while the edges of the same measure at 2.36405". A difference of 0.00035". So there's a slight valley in the middle of those two bearings, and I assume that's by design. You can't perceive it with the naked eye or by touch. It makes total sense to me that you've have a valley in there to distribute oil equally to the full circumference. By way of comparison, human hair varies from 0.00067" to 0.00709" diameter. So the valley in these bearings is less than half width of the thinnest human hair or about 9% the width of average human hair. Remeasuring puts my main bearing clearances at: #1 ---> .00165" #2 ---> .00165" #3 ---> .00165" #4 ---> .00165" #5 ---> .00165" Accurate to .00005" Damn. I didn't think they'd be so close. I have to give major props to Dale at Motion Machine and his superb machine work. Also to King Bearings for their excellent quality control. Wow. |
03-15-2015, 07:07 PM | #87 |
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Main bearing clearances sorted, time to put the short block together.
I'm building a long-rod, destroker using: a 75mm crankshaft +4 mm longer rods piston wrist pin bores moved up +2 mm Doing so requires one to do some goofy things to get the wrist pins in. You have to assemble it completely out of order from the FSM. http://i.imgur.com/veXN3bQ.jpg First you put the pistons in with the case halves separate. http://i.imgur.com/nFT4atz.jpg Second, set the crankshaft in the right case half. Rod bolts stretched proper and and ready to go. Place shims on the parting face. I used .125" (3mm) aluminium bar stock. You could probably get away with just using paper folded to 3 - 4 mm thick. http://i.imgur.com/Hz0JiAI.jpg Third, set the left case half on to your shims lining up your dowels. I temporarily, clamped the halves together. You could probably use just 2 case bolts to gently hold the assembly together (< 1 ft-lb of torque) You have to flip the case at least twice. Don't want those pretty mating surfaces dinging each other up. Don't want your spacers falling out. http://i.imgur.com/8xWqAKB.jpg Fourth, the "fun" part. Getting the wrist pins in and insuring the wrist pin c-clips are fully seated. I did them it in this order: Piston 2Took me the better part of 2 hours, for just this step. Never let a mechanical part know you're in a hurry. http://i.imgur.com/e6NUANb.jpg Step Five, take picture. Continued tomorrow... Last edited by 68Cadillac; 03-16-2015 at 01:27 AM. |
03-17-2015, 09:31 PM | #88 |
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Yeah, the first time I ever put together one of my destroked longrods, it took me a minute to get it all lined up haha
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06-28-2015, 06:59 AM | #89 |
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Sub'd again. Haha
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06-28-2015, 08:42 AM | #90 |
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Why didn't you install the Pistons onto the rods, insert into the bore then tq the rods to the crank on the one half... Then put the other case on to do the other pins? Would have been zero flipping around involved.
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07-30-2015, 04:56 PM | #91 | |
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Quote:
Jay |
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10-15-2019, 07:56 AM | #92 |
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did you ever get it running?
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10-29-2019, 04:13 PM | #93 |
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I have an 818 and its a blast. However I just blew my diff and I am looking for a paid mechanic in ATL to help me with it.
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10-29-2019, 10:00 PM | #94 |
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What transmission are you running? I have a spare 6 speed front diff sitting on the shelf I can part with.
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10-30-2019, 02:50 PM | #95 |
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I have a Getrag from a Boxster S that I'm getting ready to sell.
See this thread for inspiration: https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho....php?t=2047734 |
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