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Old 09-14-2015, 04:28 PM   #51
nmlittlebigman
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Old 11-17-2015, 10:09 AM   #52
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I know I'm not your favorite guy, but I want to provide my input.

I highly recommend deleting egr with tgvs to help put combustion stability in the hands of your tuner.
With that done, obviously delete associated codes and egr timing adder.

From there, you can utilize the avcs to induce an internal egr effect without the high risk of carbon buildup. I'm using more intake cam advance than you are under cruise; up to 20 degrees in some tunes. No issues with hesitations and great fuel economy.
Injection timing and exhaust cam position need to be compared as well during cruise. In the frs, I've seen people advance the fuel so far and retard the exhaust so far that they are shooting fuel into the exhaust.
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Old 11-17-2015, 06:05 PM   #53
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Does anyone have a pre and post tune and dyno comparison of TGV delete AND EGR block?

Please no guesstimates.
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Old 11-17-2015, 06:43 PM   #54
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Are you asking for separate graphs TGV delete dyno tune and EGR block off dyno tune? Because I have dyno maps for stage 2 without TGV and EGR block off and dyno map stage 2 tune with EGR and TGV deletes added.
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Old 11-17-2015, 06:46 PM   #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sti nova View Post
Are you asking for separate graphs TGV delete dyno tune and EGR block off dyno tune? Because I have dyno maps for stage 2 without TGV and EGR block off and dyno map stage 2 tune with EGR and TGV deletes added.
No need for separate graphs of TGV and then EGR.

Just a before and after of (TGV + EGR) will do. Thank you.

Last edited by fredrik94087; 11-17-2015 at 11:01 PM.
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Old 11-18-2015, 02:02 PM   #56
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MPS-Dom View Post
I know I'm not your favorite guy, but I want to provide my input.

I highly recommend deleting egr with tgvs to help put combustion stability in the hands of your tuner.
With that done, obviously delete associated codes and egr timing adder.

From there, you can utilize the avcs to induce an internal egr effect without the high risk of carbon buildup. I'm using more intake cam advance than you are under cruise; up to 20 degrees in some tunes. No issues with hesitations and great fuel economy.
Injection timing and exhaust cam position need to be compared as well during cruise. In the frs, I've seen people advance the fuel so far and retard the exhaust so far that they are shooting fuel into the exhaust.
Are you changing injection timing as well?

I noticed this had the biggest influence on stumbles.

So if I'm changing injector timing and you're advancing intake cam more, we may be doing something similar.
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Old 11-19-2015, 12:34 PM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anjuna View Post
I have not tried this combination, but I'm thinking all that would be needed is to flatten out the EGR ignition table and delete the codes like you said. If you try this and get any issues PM me.
How did this work out when just doing an EGR delete? Also, I noticed there were 4 EGR tables (TGV Closed/Open, Group 1/Group 2). Did all 4 need to be flattened in order to compensate?...SC
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Old 11-19-2015, 01:10 PM   #58
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clark4131 View Post
How did this work out when just doing an EGR delete? Also, I noticed there were 4 EGR tables (TGV Closed/Open, Group 1/Group 2). Did all 4 need to be flattened in order to compensate?...SC
I never did just the EGR delete.

Yes, all 4.
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Old 11-19-2015, 07:33 PM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by anjuna View Post
I never did just the EGR delete.

Yes, all 4.
Many thanks. Since I'm keeping my TGV, that should pretty much cover everything for the delete, in theory, correct?...SC
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Old 11-19-2015, 11:24 PM   #60
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clark4131 View Post
Many thanks. Since I'm keeping my TGV, that should pretty much cover everything for the delete, in theory, correct?...SC
You may need to play with timing after doing this.

EGR slows down the burn
TGV speeds up the burn

Remove the EGR and you MAY want to pull some timing in the cruise areas. I haven't personally tuned this, so your mileage may vary.
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Old 11-21-2015, 09:29 AM   #61
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Default TGV and EGR delete addition

I posted my 2015 WRX stock baseline vs stage 2 cobb protune in the 2015 WRX dyno thread with supporting modifications: http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...&postcount=286
This was without the addition of the EGR and TGV deletes. With the addition of the TGV, EGR deletes, and protune I picked up an additional 12 whp and 28 ft lbs of torque. The power delivery seems much smoother to me and I definitely feel a little more kick 4000 to 5000 RPM.

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Old 11-21-2015, 02:57 PM   #62
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Very helpful. Thank you sti nova
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Old 12-08-2015, 02:10 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by clark4131 View Post
I noticed there were 4 EGR tables (TGV Closed/Open, Group 1/Group 2). Did all 4 need to be flattened in order to compensate?...SC
Quote:
Originally Posted by anjuna View Post
Yes, all 4.
Hey Anjuna, are there any other tables that have to be copied from TGV open to TGV closed tables beside the one you posted?

For example, on Ignition Primary, there were Primary Ignition TGV closed/open, Main/Post-Start Alternate tables.

And also on Coolant Temp Compensation, there were Coolant Temp TGV closed/open/Activation tables.

Last edited by sku1111; 12-08-2015 at 02:15 AM. Reason: typo
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Old 12-08-2015, 04:32 AM   #64
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I have a protuned stage 1 w/TGV deletes from a reputable dealer that I can pull the tables from if you're interested in comparing to what you've come up with. I've looked over some of those you have posted already. The changes to injector timing are just about identical. The AVCS tables are quite different, especially in low load.

Oh, and hai arghx7... didn't know you were into subbies
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Old 12-08-2015, 09:36 AM   #65
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sku1111 View Post
Hey Anjuna, are there any other tables that have to be copied from TGV open to TGV closed tables beside the one you posted?

For example, on Ignition Primary, there were Primary Ignition TGV closed/open, Main/Post-Start Alternate tables.

And also on Coolant Temp Compensation, there were Coolant Temp TGV closed/open/Activation tables.
I have this same setup and he and I were the first to pioneer this self tune.

All the TGV open tables have to be copied the TGV closed tables... The ones he mentions are ones that he edited from the Cobb OTS stage 2 tune.
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Old 12-08-2015, 09:51 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by scotte30m3 View Post
I have this same setup and he and I were the first to pioneer this self tune.

All the TGV open tables have to be copied the TGV closed tables... The ones he mentions are ones that he edited from the Cobb OTS stage 2 tune.
Cool, thanks. I have to look more tables in ATR that have TGV closed/open tables. I might do tgv deletes today.

I have the same setup too plus Grimmspeed Stealthbox CAI.
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Old 12-08-2015, 10:15 AM   #67
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Yep, copy all the tables. Some are the same to begin with, but better safe than sorry!
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Old 12-08-2015, 11:24 AM   #68
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Originally Posted by shadrag View Post
Yep, copy all the tables. Some are the same to begin with, but better safe than sorry!
Cool. Thanks.
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Old 12-09-2015, 06:20 PM   #69
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I installed P&L upper and lower TGV deletes today. It took me about 2 hours start to finish even with a PITA mitshimoto TMIC.

I replaced my TiC TGV deletes simply because I wanted all black. However I was surprised to find that the P&L deletes have a wider opening, which mean more flow. Bonus right. This is not a knock on TiC. Theres worked great for me for 10k miles. My vanity was the only reason I swapped them out.

https://goo.gl/photos/gVb9ksREtfnKp1M57

https://goo.gl/photos/CB9mEe9Q2ZFRiGdU8

https://goo.gl/photos/maeJ4Ag4eyHYYnoQ6

Keep these photos in mind when you start considering cheaper or eBay TGVs. Thier opening may be even smaller...

I'll try to get a some logs tomorrow.
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Old 12-09-2015, 07:03 PM   #70
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What's up with the lower deletes? I only see P&L making them and don't see much info out there on them.
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Old 12-09-2015, 08:41 PM   #71
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Well that's just it, there isn't really much before and after data on them. P&L said thier tuner said that they're worth some whp on the dyno with no tune and probably worth a few more with protune. Unfortunately I don't have the time to take the scientific approach to really determine what they're worth... I gotta think that anything that anything that flows more air will have a positive effect after a tune. I'll run some logs and let you hove they impact the the car with zero adjustments to the tune
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Old 12-09-2015, 11:35 PM   #72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scotte30m3 View Post
Well that's just it, there isn't really much before and after data on them. P&L said thier tuner said that they're worth some whp on the dyno with no tune and probably worth a few more with protune. Unfortunately I don't have the time to take the scientific approach to really determine what they're worth... I gotta think that anything that anything that flows more air will have a positive effect after a tune. I'll run some logs and let you hove they impact the the car with zero adjustments to the tune

For what it's worth, the ej207 v7 came factory with TGV deletes, though the lower housing still had the bits in it, making it a "partial delete" like we see when people do the upper housing on the fa20.

If the partial delete was good enough for Subaru with the ej207, I'd expect only slight improvements on the FA.
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Old 12-10-2015, 12:15 PM   #73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scotte30m3 View Post
I installed P&L upper and lower TGV deletes today. It took me about 2 hours start to finish even with a PITA mitshimoto TMIC.

I replaced my TiC TGV deletes simply because I wanted all black. However I was surprised to find that the P&L deletes have a wider opening, which mean more flow. Bonus right. This is not a knock on TiC. Theres worked great for me for 10k miles. My vanity was the only reason I swapped them out.

https://goo.gl/photos/gVb9ksREtfnKp1M57

https://goo.gl/photos/CB9mEe9Q2ZFRiGdU8

https://goo.gl/photos/maeJ4Ag4eyHYYnoQ6

Keep these photos in mind when you start considering cheaper or eBay TGVs. Thier opening may be even smaller...

I'll try to get a some logs tomorrow.
Could you compare the TiC to the stock TGV? Even if the P&L are larger it doesn't really do anything (and could potentially be worse) if the openings it mates to are smaller than the size of the P&L.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sillo View Post
What's up with the lower deletes? I only see P&L making them and don't see much info out there on them.
PRL tested the lower deletes and saw no gains with their prototypes.

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...0&postcount=46
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Old 12-10-2015, 01:26 PM   #74
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My upper and lower deletes are both from P&L and are port matched...

If I think about it when I get back from vacation I'll snap a few pics.

Last edited by scotte30m3; 12-10-2015 at 02:25 PM.
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Old 12-11-2015, 12:24 AM   #75
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HI Anjuna,

Can you post the stock tables needed for egr delete and from what ecuid? Im having it supported with the software we use (subaruedit)

Thanks!

Mark
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