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12-15-2009, 02:46 PM | #1 |
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Torque Plate vs Non Torque Plate Motor
Some people claim that the EJ257 will go out of round unless it is bored/honed with a torque plate. However- judging by the information i've gathered around here, many people build 100mm bore motors without issues and presumably their machine shops (random local ones) did not use a torque plate. I need my block bored/honed and I really hate to get it done and then have excessive blowby, anyone have experience with or without a 'torque-plate-bored' motor?
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12-15-2009, 05:21 PM | #2 |
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Measure the bores without torque plate and measure them again with torque plate fitted. After this you know there is only one RIGHT way to do a bore/hone job!!!
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12-15-2009, 05:23 PM | #3 |
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Factory doesn't use a torque plate.
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12-15-2009, 06:05 PM | #4 |
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Mine was done with a torque plate. The motor is going in tomorrow so I will let you know the outcome.
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12-15-2009, 09:44 PM | #5 |
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....Anywhere I can find description/definition of a torque plate ? Already on a link somewhere ?
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12-15-2009, 09:52 PM | #6 |
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12-15-2009, 10:39 PM | #7 |
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I have bored about 3 motors so far WITHOUT plate, just for myself. NO blowby. The motors I have had bored and sold have had NO blowby.\
However,none of these motors are seeing more than 400whp. |
12-16-2009, 12:05 PM | #8 |
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Well did they try and measure that with the block at temp? The way the sleeves are supported would allow the bore to expand where it wasnt support by more than where it is. Not to mention the factory pistons have a VERY small clearance IIRC it is .001. So going by that the factory pistons would seize correct? I mean correct me if I am wrong in my thinking.
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12-16-2009, 07:52 PM | #9 | |
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Quote:
I did this! http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1659712 Since the end of this thread, I built three customer cars. Two of them opted for the torque plate. One did not. The two that got torque plated, like my motor, are SIGNIFICANTLY quieter (piston slap) both cold and hot, than ones that are not torque plate. This is the only "experimental" evidence I have using torque plates, other than when my machinists measured the bores with and without a torque plate. That info should be in my thread. DK |
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12-17-2009, 05:59 AM | #10 |
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Useless to do with a torqueplate when you don't know what the bores are doing when the engine is getting hot. So either bore/hone 'as is' or use a torqueplate with the block heated up to 85 degrees. Does anybody do that? I guess not...
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12-17-2009, 10:58 AM | #11 |
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This only applies to EJ257/EJ255 motors huh? if so.... i'm sorry for you 2.5L guys
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12-17-2009, 11:48 AM | #12 |
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Well it seems like torque plates are the way to go... but certainly not for any sort of *budget* build. Has anyone experimented with a slightly tighter piston-wall clearance on a non-torque plated motor?
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12-17-2009, 01:03 PM | #13 |
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85°C I guess you mean or 185°F in the USA
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12-17-2009, 01:29 PM | #14 |
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Eh deg C but it is an intersting discussion; so far I've never used a torque plate and on EJ20s it doesn't have a big impact, on EJ25s it could be, but still, measuring at room temperature - how does the roundness of the cylinders change when the engine gets hot?
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12-18-2009, 07:16 AM | #15 |
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Will check soon on a heated block! On a non heated block the bore is getting ovalised with the torque plate fitted quite a lot... Don't see that it will get better when heating...
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12-18-2009, 09:13 AM | #16 | |
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12-18-2009, 11:32 AM | #17 | |
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12-18-2009, 05:23 PM | #18 |
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Of course I will heat it with toque plate! I don't have such a big oven, so I think we will use the engine washing machine from my engine shop.
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12-19-2009, 12:06 PM | #19 |
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Torque plates should not matter as much on an ej engine because the head studs or bolts pull from way down in the block. Most engines the head bolts pull from the deck surface and deforms the bore at the top of the cylinder where most of the compression happens. At bottom dead center compression loss is minimized. At most shops they only hone the last few thousandths with torque plates.
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12-20-2009, 01:06 AM | #20 | |
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Last edited by 2milehi; 12-20-2009 at 09:20 AM. |
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12-20-2009, 10:40 AM | #21 |
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There is also this thread:
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show....php?t=1431376 1st post. "machining" section. |
12-20-2009, 12:50 PM | #22 |
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Which is why the bores are square.
Also it comes down to what type of rings are used. Some rings are able to deal with a non perfect bore. Some rings need it. Talk with your engine builder about what piston and rings your running. Then see what he thinks about boring. I myself have seen the square bores, So I would never not use a torque plate. |
12-20-2009, 12:58 PM | #23 | |
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Have you ever read the cosworth outline for installing their heads? They set the shim lash when you get them. Then they have to be adjusted when they are bolted to the heads. They go off a few thousands.. |
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12-20-2009, 01:02 PM | #24 | |
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12-20-2009, 02:34 PM | #25 | |
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Quote:
If you had measured a Subaru with and without torque plate fitted, you would know that the cilinders will be compressed when the head (or torque plate) is fitted. This causes the bores to be ovalised and getting bigger especially in the middle. |
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