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Old 12-16-2011, 02:50 PM   #1
cianuro
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Default A couple tips for a VF52 Swap into an 08 WRX

First of all, if you're thinking about doing it, stop thinking and just do it!!! I installed it with a Torqued Performance map and I have no complaints.

Now, onto the title...

I'd been wanting this update for a while now, but doing a whole lot of research wasn't that helpful. Most people just said "yeah, bolt-on straight-up, no modification required". Basically, they're right, but I encountered one single issue...

Make sure the VF52 you buy comes with the oil and cooling lines attached. I bought mine used (only 5K miles) and without these thinking I would just swap them. I was a bit wrong.

The top oil line from the 08's TD04 fit ok, but you won't be able to use the bracket that holds it in place.

As for the cooling lines with the banjo bolts, I had to do some small bending for them to fit around the VF52. When I say small, I mean really, really small. Don't go crazy. You'll know how much when you see it. The brackets won't fit either. Also, the 08's TD04 cooling lines come welded together (in/out), but I had to cut this weld because the separation between them in the VF52 is bigger. They'll fit properly, and they'll fall in the right position, but if you're using the 08's, you'll have to break the weld.

Now, for the oil return line... This one was a royal PITA!!! First off, take advantage of being underneath the car when you're pulling out the dp, grab some pliers and twist the LOWER END of the oil return hose side to side so you can loosen it. You'll prolly need a flashlight to see what you're doing. Once all the bolts and lines have been removed from the turbo, it'll come off a lot easier if you do this first by just pulling it up.

When putting the VF52 in, I found it easier to install the oil return hose to the car first. This hose has 2 clamps (1 top, 1 bottom), but these clamps don't do much. They hardly put pressure on the hose, so I'm guessing they're there to keep the hose in place since there shound be little to no pressure on that line.

Another PITA was the intake. Try opening the clamp as much as possible without completely undoing it, then push it back towards the intake as much as possible. It'll be a bit hard to mate the intake with the turbo, but it'll get there.

Last, but not least... Be sure to double check everything is tightened and in place before you turn on the car. I had everything perfect, but I forgot to tighten the clamp on the intercooler. I noticed when I did my first WOT and a trumpet sound was coming out the front of the car.

Well, I hope this helps, since I didn't find these little details when I was researching about the upgrade.

It took me about 4 hours to do it by myself, took a couple of breaks though. Had some help during the last 1/2 hour to align the oil return hose properly, but that was it. Flashed the TP map after that.
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Old 12-17-2011, 01:35 PM   #2
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Went VF52 a couple years ago... loved it ever since.
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Old 12-17-2011, 05:36 PM   #3
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did my swap last november. its been over a year now. loved every minute of full boost shifts! its a great swap from the low end only td04 turbo. ive since went with a stage 2 map and grimmspeed ebcs. the biggest pita with my install was getting the turbo inlet hose back on without ripping it. for the return oil line i just pushed the turbo back down onto it. i never did any loosening of the clamp or hose. its damn near impossible to access the oil return line from underneath the car.
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Old 12-17-2011, 08:51 PM   #4
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I went from stock lgt turbo to 20g to vf52 and love the vf52 the best. Spools quick and does not die as quickly as stock turbo at higher rpm. And with e85 you can get upwards of 350hp on a vf52.

Taras
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Old 12-19-2011, 11:09 PM   #5
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Sti Mikey just got done tuning my vf52'd lgt. My buddy put in on with the Perrin tmic, tuned and played! No fueling upgrades and it feels great. Way way better then the old vf40.
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Old 02-02-2012, 01:33 PM   #6
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Kinda OT, but is there any type of gasket for the TMIC/turbo connection?
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Old 02-02-2012, 02:03 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abacall View Post
Kinda OT, but is there any type of gasket for the TMIC/turbo connection?
The tmic uses an O-ring attached to the flange, and that how it seals with the turbo. Take out your tmic and you'll see where it is. Don't worry, it won't fall off.
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Old 02-02-2012, 03:14 PM   #8
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Thanks! Just wanted to make sure it wasn't like an exhaust gasket and needed to be replaced.
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Old 02-02-2012, 03:19 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by abacall View Post
Thanks! Just wanted to make sure it wasn't like an exhaust gasket and needed to be replaced.
No problem. Be sure to rub some engine oil with your finger on the O-ring before you put everything back together so that it doesn't get damaged.
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Old 02-02-2012, 06:05 PM   #10
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when i swapped out to the vf52 and ipr tmic i made my own gasket with cork seals great.
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Old 02-02-2012, 06:30 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nate_fisher View Post
when i swapped out to the vf52 and ipr tmic i made my own gasket with cork seals great.
How is the ipr working out for you? Heard some good and bad things which have me wanting it but prevent me from buying.
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Old 02-02-2012, 06:46 PM   #12
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I love the vf52 on my OXT. Too bad the Perrin TMIC fits like crap. Though, to be fair, I'm not sure any of the larger TMIC work with the MC rez. on the the Outback platform.

Yeah, turbo installs really are not that difficult vs. the UP.
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Old 02-03-2012, 03:49 PM   #13
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ipr is tough fit and is the same as the perrin but i like it alot and cant beet the price
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Old 02-03-2012, 05:31 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tazswing View Post
I love the vf52 on my OXT. Too bad the Perrin TMIC fits like crap. Though, to be fair, I'm not sure any of the larger TMIC work with the MC rez. on the the Outback platform.

Yeah, turbo installs really are not that difficult vs. the UP.
im doing my headers and upipe in the future. i have tomei combo coming right now. how hard is the uppipe to remove? i have a friend which is a very good mechanic that has a lift at his house. would the lift be easier to to this job? thanks.
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Old 02-09-2012, 07:52 AM   #15
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So to upgrade to vf52 u don't need a new fuel pump injectors etc. what about a upgraded intercooler?
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Old 02-09-2012, 08:04 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bigjk145 View Post
So to upgrade to vf52 u don't need a new fuel pump injectors etc. what about a upgraded intercooler?
Depends on your goals. I'm running it on stock pump and injectors with no issues. I bought TP's stage 2.52 map, currently have Eric working on some targets and I tuned fuel for 11.3:1. Boost is set for 19psi.

As for the intercooler, Eric recommended the Grimspeed tmic, a cheaper version of the Process West. I might do the upgrade in the near future, but plan to stay like this for a while.
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Old 02-09-2012, 10:26 AM   #17
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Ok thanks
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Old 02-09-2012, 08:09 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cianuro View Post
Depends on your goals. I'm running it on stock pump and injectors with no issues. I bought TP's stage 2.52 map, currently have Eric working on some targets and I tuned fuel for 11.3:1. Boost is set for 19psi.

As for the intercooler, Eric recommended the Grimspeed tmic, a cheaper version of the Process West. I might do the upgrade in the near future, but plan to stay like this for a while.
grimmspeed doesnt make intercoolers. i think you mean torque solutions.
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Old 04-02-2017, 10:40 AM   #19
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Old thread but popped up on Google first so figure I chime in as well as I recently did this replacing my VF52 and took roughly three hours being first time around and felt like the oil return line was the biggest PITA. Pulling out the turbo is the easy part.

I'd recommend unscrewing the bolt that's securing the turbo inlet near the intake and pull maybe 2-3 mm towards the intake which does help but there's a lot of wiggling to do after the oil return line (the silver pipe pointing down) fits in.

I would also grab a blunt but long & skinny screwdriver (I used an old worn Phillips screwdriver) to gently get the inlet edge near the clamp to fit around the turbo. The clamp like mentioned already should be loose enough it's like one or two notches from being completely loose. I know the turbo inlet is known to tear easily so I was pretty careful but after pulling the inlet back and forth it finally popped in.

Then the oil feed line on top with banjo screws and the last one being the coolant line. Quadruple check everything as I almost forgot to tighten the three 14mm nuts to hold down the turbo. I actually stripped one of them so had to get a new stud & nut from the local dealer. Always good to have these nuts and studs on hand IMO.
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Old 04-09-2021, 07:46 PM   #20
HarryCaveMan
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Default Anyone Tune for this themselves?

I am wanting to do this swap myself, keeping everything else stock for now. I am starting with Cobb stage1 map and was hoping to be able to get by with only tuning WGDC and open-loop transition.

Am I correct that keeping the same intake and MAF housing would mean no need to calibrate MAF tables? And that keeping the same injectors means no tuning injector scalars?

Notes:
Not looking for more power really, just better drivability (maybe 230-250whp)
Running E0 93(yes 0) with 10-20% toluene, probably ~100-105 octane (no tuning needed for fuel lambda)
Have naye once seen a knock with stage 1 tune on the TDO4 with this fuel

I think I have a legitimate process in mind:

1. Install vf52
2. Zero out WGDC map
3. Research how to tune open-loop transition for this snail
- Set to slightly higher rpm for slightly slower spool?
- Be very careful and watch Knock constantly
- Buy/Install standalone wideband so I can really know AFR in open loop?
4. Start gradually working on WGDC map until I'm hitting my boost targets

Any other gotchas? Any recommendations on top tier tuners who are good communicators and would be willing to be paid for their time as a consultant but have me to all the dirty work? I really just want someone with deep knowledge and experience who can answer tough questions (like the ones I'll have during steps 3 and 4) questions, I'm not trying to waste your time or my money.

Last edited by HarryCaveMan; 04-09-2021 at 10:52 PM.
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Old 04-09-2021, 08:08 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryCaveMan View Post
I am wanting to do this swap myself, keeping everything else stock for now. I am starting with Cobb stage1 map and was hoping to be able to get by with just wasetgate and open-loop transition tune. Am I correct that keeping the same intake and MAF housing would mean no need to calibrate MAF tables? And that keeping the same injectors means no tuning injector scalars?
Whichever map you use, you need to look at the map requirements and make sure you're running the recommended intake for that map. Injectors need rescaling if you change cc's. MAF will require calibration if you want a different A/F ratio than the map target. Maps tend to be on the safe side in my experience, making them run rather rich.
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Old 04-09-2021, 09:16 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by cianuro View Post
Whichever map you use, you need to look at the map requirements and make sure you're running the recommended intake for that map. Injectors need rescaling if you change cc's. MAF will require calibration if you want a different A/F ratio than the map target. Maps tend to be on the safe side in my experience, making them run rather rich.
Thanks man, I'm really trying to run stock everything except the vf52 if I can. Stock injectors, MAF housing, intake, inlet (if I can), tmic (if I can), header/up-pipe/downpipe (If I can). On a 2008 sedan that came with a TD04. I did find a nice mishimoto tmic for a good price so it may enter the mix at some point.

The map is 100% for sure calibrated for the stock MAF housing/intake/inlet. I think that the MAF signal should be accurate since it measures mass directly, even if the turbo is more efficient and therefore pushing a slightly cooler, denser charge. I'm sure someone who has experience has already test this assumption in some way and has the answer to this question and more.

Then other answers an experienced tuner would have would be answers so seemingly intuitive things like:
- Do I slide open loop delay to slightly higher RPM due to the later spool?
- Can I assume lower WGDC at high RPM because the larger vf will have to vent more EG (lower RPM) to maintain the same pressure/density?
- Can I assume higher WGDC at low RPM because it will need more EG to spool?

Last edited by HarryCaveMan; 04-10-2021 at 12:22 AM.
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Old 04-09-2021, 11:18 PM   #23
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Turbo dynamics (proportional, integral and derivative) will also be different when changing turbos, since they will respond differently. The possible effects of not changing them are "hunting" for target boost (oscillation), or over/underboosting. You might do well to look at a stock VF52 map and copy the values into your map.
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Old 04-10-2021, 12:35 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by GalaxyWide View Post
Turbo dynamics (proportional, integral and derivative) will also be different when changing turbos, since they will respond differently. The possible effects of not changing them are "hunting" for target boost (oscillation), or over/underboosting. You might do well to look at a stock VF52 map and copy the values into your map.
D`: I was worried I might have to tune the PID system. I suppose a good place to start would be the OTS maps from a vehicle with a v52...

That being said I'd really like to pick the brain of an actual engineer or very skilled tuner who knows the math (sounds like you might be one) so I can fine tune in the future, and just to grow my own skills as a technician and engineer.

If you are most certainly the person, PM me and we can discuss further. Or if you know of a top notch tuner who is the person I'm looking for, I'd be super grateful either way.

Just a heads up too, I'm going to take any knowledge I gain and give it back to everyone in this thread.

Last edited by HarryCaveMan; 04-10-2021 at 12:31 PM.
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Old 04-10-2021, 10:08 AM   #25
cianuro
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HarryCaveMan View Post
Thanks man, I'm really trying to run stock everything except the vf52 if I can. Stock injectors, MAF housing, intake, inlet (if I can), tmic (if I can), header/up-pipe/downpipe (If I can). On a 2008 sedan that came with a TD04. I did find a nice mishimoto tmic for a good price so it may enter the mix at some point.

The map is 100% for sure calibrated for the stock MAF housing/intake/inlet. I think that the MAF signal should be accurate since it measures mass directly, even if the turbo is more efficient and therefore pushing a slightly cooler, denser charge. I'm sure someone who has experience has already test this assumption in some way and has the answer to this question and more.

Then other answers an experienced tuner would have would be answers so seemingly intuitive things like:
- Do I slide open loop delay to slightly higher RPM due to the later spool?
- Can I assume lower WGDC at high RPM because the larger vf will have to vent more EG (lower RPM) to maintain the same pressure/density?
- Can I assume higher WGDC at low RPM because it will need more EG to spool?
I'd recommend getting a map that has a tune for the vf52 already as it will have the proper adjustments for the turbo dynamics as mentioned in the previous post. You'd need it to be an open map so you can tweak it, which would probably only be possible via local hands-on tuning. When I purchased my maps they were open, so I was able to tweak the AFR, then mess with the rear O2 until I was able to replace it.

Right now my car is down. Broke the throw out bearing when covid started and because I was being quartered at my job for several weeks at a time, it took me 6 months to get it back running, only to have the air pump die on me and crack the radiator at the same time. All that's left is venting the rad and new registration since it expired.
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