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Old 11-12-2019, 08:55 AM   #4301
Jard
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My 3 got the latest software pushed to it tonight. Biggest change was an option to enable regen all the way down to 0 mph, at which point the discs engage and hold.

(Before it’d regen to 5 mph then tail off. One would complete the stop by braking manually.)

This is pretty close to true one pedal driving now. Low speed maneuvering is a bit awkward but I’ll get used to that.
The new regen to HOLD is outstanding and reminds me of "B" mode in our '13 LEAF. There is definitely some chance for motion sickness before you get used to it.
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Old 11-12-2019, 09:09 AM   #4302
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The 5% power increase is also more than noticeable. It's just plain crazy that they can do that.
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Old 11-12-2019, 09:22 AM   #4303
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I may cancel my order for fear of being lumped in with these folks. And because, at this rate, I’ll get my ducking 2019 model year car in 2020.
I'd have canceled my order 3 times by now

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I did see a 30th anniversary 70 series Land Cruiser at the test facility yesterday. Blue, 6MT, updated 4.0L 1GR. It was glorious. My phone was locked in a security cabinet so no pics.
Nice, except for the no pics bit. Speaking of blue, I saw a really nice vivid blue on a TRD Pro T4R (T5R?) the other day. Apparently Voodoo Blue is it:

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Old 11-12-2019, 09:23 AM   #4304
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The new regen to HOLD is outstanding and reminds me of "B" mode in our '13 LEAF. There is definitely some chance for motion sickness before you get used to it.
With our old LEAF I never used B mode, since the half-brake depression would let one use regen only.

(Jard already knows this, but with Tesla's setup regen is all with lifting off the throttle. Brake pedal application means actual disc engagement--no blending with light pedal application, just blending in the sense that regen from lifting is still there.)
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Old 11-13-2019, 12:27 AM   #4305
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I'd have canceled my order 3 times by now







Nice, except for the no pics bit. Speaking of blue, I saw a really nice vivid blue on a TRD Pro T4R (T5R?) the other day. Apparently Voodoo Blue is it:




Yea, the voodoo blue is ghastly on the FJ Cruiser but I love it on the 4Runner. Weird.

I have seen a couple heritage blue FJs here in Japan. That could be the perfect color.
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Old 11-13-2019, 03:35 PM   #4306
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New Rivian video. Most of this doesn’t look CGI to me, tank turns possibly excepted.

Two screenshots from it of note:



Note the two front facing Lidar…



A look at the underside.

I don’t see a steering mechanism so this is presumably the rear. CNCed control arms show that they’re still a ways from production-intent, but those control arms look nice and beefy with good droop travel. Air bags at all four corners.

And note the one motor per wheel layout: the way I parse this image, the motors are oriented with their output shafts near the midline, the power flow going through the gear reduction and flipping 180 degrees to those half shafts then headed out to the hubs.
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Old 11-13-2019, 03:47 PM   #4307
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It's way over budget for what I can afford, but... I may have to, make up for it by not replacing the Genesis until 2022 or so, lol.
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Old 11-13-2019, 03:48 PM   #4308
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I want one. Not a fan of the front end but god dammit, this looks awesome. Sign me up.
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Old 11-13-2019, 07:49 PM   #4309
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Old 11-13-2019, 08:05 PM   #4310
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70 series are the new, er, old hotness.

:drool:

The Rivians are really looking quite good thus far. 2021 or so will be a good time to be in the market!
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Old 11-14-2019, 09:47 AM   #4311
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Isn't Toyota still producing a limited number of brand new 70 series? Definitely cool, but probably couldn't sell enough here to justify certifying it.
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Old 11-14-2019, 12:03 PM   #4312
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shikataganai View Post

A look at the underside.

I don’t see a steering mechanism so this is presumably the rear. CNCed control arms show that they’re still a ways from production-intent, but those control arms look nice and beefy with good droop travel. Air bags at all four corners.

And note the one motor per wheel layout: the way I parse this image, the motors are oriented with their output shafts near the midline, the power flow going through the gear reduction and flipping 180 degrees to those half shafts then headed out to the hubs.
So... it's an electric H1.
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Old 11-14-2019, 12:10 PM   #4313
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Isn't Toyota still producing a limited number of brand new 70 series? Definitely cool, but probably couldn't sell enough here to justify certifying it.
Yeah, not even sure about limited. Available new in Japan and Australia for sure, and I'd imagine Africa as well.

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So... it's an electric H1.
Sorta. No portal gearboxes at the hubs so the halfshaft angle and A arm clearance will just be normal.
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Old 11-14-2019, 12:17 PM   #4314
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Yeah, not even sure about limited. Available new in Japan and Australia for sure, and I'd imagine Africa as well.



Sorta. No portal gearboxes at the hubs so the halfshaft angle and A arm clearance will just be normal.
But geared hubs with straight cut gears are awesome!
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Old 11-14-2019, 12:47 PM   #4315
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I could have sworn we were still getting those here in Costa Rica but I don't see anything listed online. Just the 4dr Hardtop Land Cruiser. Starting at $67k.
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Old 11-14-2019, 04:29 PM   #4316
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So the Rivian R1S really does look great from a technological standpoint. I even like how it looks. And I am the target buyer 100%... but I don't see myself pulling that particular trigger, because math.

The R1S will start at $72,500 + destination + TTL, for the 105 kWh version. For my skiing uses I'd definitely want the 130 kWh version, but could pass on the 180 kWh monster. Let's call the 130 kWh version $85,000 + the above fees. The CO and Fed tax credits in 2020 or more likely 2021 would probably cover sales/use tax, so let's work with an even $85k here.

How much your $100K car will depreciate over time gives some decent blanket rule figures on depreciation: 25% in first year, 9% in second, 7.9% in third, 8% in fourth. I don't know why it jumped in this year--I didn't come up with this. Let's assume that I'll keep it for four years, to be generous to me.

Anyway, back to the numbers: at the end of 4 years projected residual for a generic gas powered $100k vehicle would be 49.9%, and I have no reason to believe that EVs will depreciate at a lesser rate. So $85,000 * 50.1% / 48 months == $887/mo in depreciation. (At 36 months it'd be $994/mo, $1,211/mo at 24 months.)

That's actually a bit less at 48 months than I'd guessed as a gut reaction from the first two years. The point still stands that that's a fair chunk of change for something capable, quick, and electrified as opposed to the capable, not quick, dino juice powered default option.

But what about gas/energy costs? Let's say I drove 10,000 miles per year in the 15 MPG Land Cruiser at $2.75/gallon, ignoring maintenance and oil changes. That'd be $1,833 in gasoline. Rivian is claiming 310 miles of range for their 130 kWh variant, and that works out to be 436 Wh/mile. At 12.5 cents/kWh as a year round average and 90% charger efficiency on the car that's $606 paid to my electricity utility, so over the course of a year I'd save $102.25 per month. (Then again the expensive new car would likely be close to that much more per month to insure...)

Cliffs Notes: Expensive vehicles are expensive due to their depreciation. The marginal savings in running such an electric beast do not offset this.
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Old 11-14-2019, 04:53 PM   #4317
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You seem to look at car purchases largely based on needs then the economy of it though.

It's no surprise that cars depreciate like rocks. I think my Genesis is at around $600.00/mo last I checked and that's a $55k car I paid $42k for. But there's more to the equation than just dollars and cents.

For the electric vehicle, you also have to consider what your motivation is, if it's squarely to save money, then a used leaf or Bolt of something is obviously the better choice, but there's tons of other potential factors. Environmental, performance, preferences, desires, interest in tech innovation etc.

For me, the draw of the Rivian is that it's well designed, seem like the thoroughly thought out car with an electric vehicle tech (4 motor, large battery) I like, not to mention 3 second 0-60 in a freaking truck with 700+ hp. The giggle factor there is worth at least $200.00/mo

EDIT: Also I'd get to enjoy a stupid fast car without participating quite as heavily in the continued destruction of our climate.

Last edited by TheViking85; 11-14-2019 at 05:00 PM.
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Old 11-14-2019, 04:54 PM   #4318
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$85k for a vehicle that I'd be surprised you keep and take it in the shorts for depreciation. Sounds like a smart financial decision.

Btw: Tahoe's and trucks have a pretty damn high resale value. You could buy one towards end of year with killer discounts and be well ahead of the depreciation curve.

The Rivian is pretty ****ing sweet and I want one but if you're trying to have this purchase make financial sense instead of simply just wanting it, you're kinda being silly.
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Old 11-14-2019, 04:57 PM   #4319
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I'm with you that the intangible factors are worth something. They're roughly worth what my Model 3 is costing me--I'm ok with it and the wife and I certainly always choose to drive it when we don't need to cart around kid #3.

But my post was an exercise to quantify how much those intangibles must be worth it to me in order to justify a Rivian... and I don't think lack of using gas, performance, interest in tech for tech's sake etc. add up to probably $750/mo in additional depreciation beyond that of my Land Cruiser.
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Old 11-14-2019, 05:17 PM   #4320
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I'm with you that the intangible factors are worth something. They're roughly worth what my Model 3 is costing me--I'm ok with it and the wife and I certainly always choose to drive it when we don't need to cart around kid #3.

But my post was an exercise to quantify how much those intangibles must be worth it to me in order to justify a Rivian... and I don't think lack of using gas, performance, interest in tech for tech's sake etc. add up to probably $750/mo in additional depreciation beyond that of my Land Cruiser.
I would doubt it does add up. The land cruiser is paid off so with the exception of gas and maintenance, it’s damn cheap. I’m sure insurance will be fairly high with the Rivian but could be wrong. I’m debating a Rivian since I need a truck to haul all my large medical equipment and since the new tax bill screwed me, making it so I can’t write off car payment, gas, insurance etc, EV definitely has a leg up in terms of gas v electric cost.

That said, I flip vehicles every 3 to 4 years max as I’ll rack up 100k in that time and knowing I’ll likely take a 50% hit if not more is just painful and doesn’t make it financially beneficial.

My other concern which can’t be accounted for is the fact that technology will likely continue to accelerate at a faster pace each year making whatever I bought obsolete and as things scale, likely drive down costs.

Lastly, I can just see myself getting tickets out the ass doing tank spins because I can, which would also mean I’m buying tires often.
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Old 11-14-2019, 05:19 PM   #4321
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Tank spins would be awfully fun. Perhaps I should reserve judgment until I take a 3.0 second 0-60 pull and do a tank spin.

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Old 11-14-2019, 05:30 PM   #4322
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Tank spins would be awfully fun. Perhaps I should reserve judgment until I take a 3.0 second 0-60 pull and do a tank spin.

2 test are needed

1: Perform tank spin from dead stop and exit tank spin with a sprint to 60mph
2: Sprint 0-60 and perform tank spin at 60mph.

I’ve decided I should not own a Rivian for reasons above
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Old 11-14-2019, 06:22 PM   #4323
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That Rivian. Yes.

Perhaps a smaller, cheaper version like old Taco-sized, plz?
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Old 11-14-2019, 06:48 PM   #4324
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That Rivian. Yes.

Perhaps a smaller, cheaper version like old Taco-sized, plz?
I’d expect the Tesla truck to be a taco size.
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Old 11-14-2019, 08:55 PM   #4325
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2001 Taco size please....
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