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11-13-2007, 03:51 PM | #26 |
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I think the best option really is to monitor them both separately like Homemade said...
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11-13-2007, 04:12 PM | #27 |
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Now couldnt you use the logic from the Aquamist fail safe, its not that u have to kill the motor, but just boost, or down to the boost level down to what the second pump will handle. Or quad pumps with a pump switch over, nascar style.
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11-13-2007, 04:25 PM | #28 |
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Yup!
One could probably rig up the Aquamist failsafes all you need is the right sensors |
11-13-2007, 04:30 PM | #29 |
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^^True, didn't think of that.
I want that Aeromotive pump controller, that is if I decide to go with Aeromotive parts. |
11-13-2007, 05:01 PM | #30 |
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well, someone's thinking now...actually the two systems that I'd been working on (fuel and alky) use similar hardware for the failsafes...
as for the 044's being better than 255's: aren't 044's rated at a lower fuel flow than 255 and aren't the 044's marginally better at maintaining pressure than the 255hp's? if that's the case, three 255's cost less than two 044's and will outperform them... |
11-13-2007, 05:27 PM | #31 |
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I had heared that the walbro were even more unreliable than the bosch pumps ? thats why I went with the bosch of course the havent ended up that way
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11-13-2007, 05:29 PM | #32 |
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11-13-2007, 06:04 PM | #33 |
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On the real, I think more of us end up blowing a motor due to some other part failing then the Fuel Pumps, spun bearings, bad assembly, seems a higher number of engines die from that. Dual 255's with a swirl tank might work?
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11-13-2007, 08:03 PM | #34 | |
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As far as sensing pump failure, you just want to T the sensor before the FPR, where the line pressure should be high regardless of boost (if not, oh sh**). Of course you'll have multiple systems to check to see why the LED came on, but with just fuel and WI sensors the checklist is manageable (also, the WI system may have a diagnostic light built in, again depending on which one you run). Other systems could share the interrupt relay too. Of course if you need to cut boost and pull timing, it may not be that simple BTW, rather than a PWM controller to extend pump life at low consumption, why not a high pressure regulator bypassing to another return line, preferably near the pumps/tank? That's closer to an internally bypassed pump, which would be an integrated solution. Personally, I tend to trust mechanical things (e.g. a high-quality regulator) vs. discrete electronic modules. An independent PWM seems like one more bit of complexity that could fail at an inopportune moment. |
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12-05-2007, 03:25 PM | #35 |
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Sorry to bump an old thread, but I didn't see the need to start a new one over a similar subject.
I'm in the final planning stages of my build and am starting to buy parts for the fuel system. Will my in-tank 255lph Walbro be enough pump to keep my surge tank flowing with enough fuel? I'll be running an Aeromotive a1000 pump and 1600cc injectors. I realize that the fuel return will be coming back in, but at WOT I'd hate to not have enough because of a stupid $75 pump. |
12-05-2007, 04:57 PM | #36 |
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that is the inherent problem with a surge tank fed lower flow rate than the outgoing...the tank can run dry if you are at WOT for a prolonged period...its a simple flow rate problem as to how much time you will have.
take: (fuel flow rate from a1000) - (fuel flowrate returned to surge tank + fuel fed by 255 from gas tank) and see your rate of fuel "loss" (delta) then work out the time it takes to run the surge tank dry. I would honestly set "dry" as 20% of the tanks volume for reasons of slosh. |
12-05-2007, 06:01 PM | #37 |
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I'd think the Walbros would be able to keep up with the flow since they're not supplying all the flow at such a high pressure. That's the problem with them once you start flowing a lot of fuel, they flow but pressure at the injector starts to drop off. Since you have a booster pump the pressure requirements from the Walbro are greatly reduced so you can get more volume out of them.
Note: just a theory |
12-05-2007, 06:42 PM | #38 |
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I just bought a weldon no more two pump worries
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12-05-2007, 07:00 PM | #39 | |
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12-06-2007, 12:03 AM | #40 |
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This Thread Kicks A$$, I`ll be doing a Set-up like the ones seen above!
Great pics |
12-06-2007, 12:21 AM | #41 | |
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???
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Also, the surge tank is cool as far as making sure you have a good fuel sump. However, is there a problem you have noticed with fuel heating? If you take the bypass fuel and dump it right back into the surge tank, and proceed to re pump; it will pick up heat, it doesn't mix and exchange heat with the mass amounts of fuel in the tank (assuming, no overflow is taking place) |
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12-06-2007, 10:38 AM | #42 |
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Just call Phil@elementtuning he's got a whole set-up as well, plus he's local
240-246-0302 |
12-06-2007, 11:15 AM | #43 | |
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I plan on running mine under the car, though. |
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12-06-2007, 11:37 AM | #44 |
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01-07-2008, 07:48 PM | #45 |
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03-08-2008, 04:29 PM | #46 | |
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In addition, the frigging noise these pumps make is quite alot BBBBBBHHHHH...BBHHHHHHH.... BHHHHHH !! by placing it under the car the noise doesn't transmit as much as having the pump inside the trunk or even inside the tank. One of my buddies has his 044 in-tank and it's noisier than where I mounted mine Also I think I'm going to leave the rear seat cushions on at all times.... just in case I get arse-ended hard, don't want all that California 91 piss gass to end up inside the cabin another routing diagram pic I made, to help those who have questions about surge tank setups there might be better setups so always good to research all available options. Alright, so I get asked very frequently about what fittings to use, where to get them, etc. Here's the answer - Hope that helps: Yeah, there's no easy way to go from the 8mm (5/16") OEM pump hanger lines to AN hoses. You have to use multiple fittings to get to a 5/16" barb fitting. The nicest way would be using bulkhead fittings and eliminate the hanger hard lines but as you said it's more costly and more work. like this http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...5&postcount=80 I ended up using the following From OEM in-tank pump: 5/16" fuel rubber hose - 5/16" barb x 3/8" NPT - 3/8" NPT female coupler - 3/8" NPT male x -6AN - -6AN hose to surge tank same fittings for the return line, make a list of all the stuff you need so you place 1 order from Summit and only pay the handling fee of $10 once. *keep in mind the lightweight braided hose lets the fumes escape out thru the rubber hose and stink up the inside of your car with gas fumes, use steel braided good quality hose like Earl's or Aeroquip. I ended up using teflon lined hose http://www.summitracing.com/search/B.../?autoview=SKU parts http://www.summitracing.com/parts/AE...5/?image=large or http://www.summitracing.com/parts/MAA-9-38021/ http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EAR-991003ERL/ http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SUM-220648/ Last edited by engineerx; 10-01-2009 at 04:49 PM. Reason: A lot of questions from fellow members :) |
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03-09-2008, 01:16 AM | #47 |
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I wish someone in the US would sell surge tanks... I cant seem to find anything other than in Australia etc... Since this was bumped, I have bought some Deatchworks 1100cc injectors, Aeromotive fuel rails, fittings, fuel log etc... Coming along, but I have been steered away from the Aeromotive A-1000 which I planned to run and told to go with some Bosch 044s by a local shop. They said the A-1000 can't handle the fueling needs of a turbo car very well. They fall off somewhere around 50psi...
Nm, just bought a surge tank from SMP... Thanks guys! How many feet of braided fuel line do I need? Last edited by 9vapors; 03-31-2008 at 03:37 PM. |
03-11-2008, 07:05 PM | #48 |
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Just run a dry sump setup, itll handle your needs. But pricy though.
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03-11-2008, 07:19 PM | #49 |
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04-16-2008, 10:34 AM | #50 |
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Ran into a small snag yesterday. I was running all the lines yesterday and realized that the 06 comes with quick dissconnect lines. I have already purchased and cut all the braided hose, but need the fitting I have listed in the picture so I can use the factory return line, instead of having to rerun a new line from fpr to the surge tank. My original plan was to use the same fittings that engineerx used on his setup but from what i found out yesterday thats not gonna happen. Anyone know where i can pick up the fittings that are shown in the picture below?
Last edited by ec2k1gt; 04-16-2008 at 10:41 AM. |
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