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06-21-2003, 06:28 PM | #51 | |
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Member#: 15059
Join Date: Feb 2002
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: Latrobe, PA
Vehicle:2004 WRX STi 1991 TSi |
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06-21-2003, 07:20 PM | #52 | |
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Member#: 36852
Join Date: May 2003
Location: North West
Vehicle:2004 STI |
Holy *****. That should explain a lot!
Quote:
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06-22-2003, 12:37 AM | #53 | |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 456
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NWIC
Location: Redmond, WA, USA
Vehicle:2008 Forester XT Steel Gray Metallic |
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I heard a few "big clunks" today. I have a Fluke DMM with RS232 port. If I could log the output of the factory knock sensor in parallel with logging RPM and advance from the OBDII port, it would provide pretty conclusive proof of the issue. Unfortunately I'm still dealing with my house move so don't have any time to pursue this week. Glenn |
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06-22-2003, 08:48 AM | #54 | |
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Member#: 36571
Join Date: May 2003
Location: NorCal
Vehicle:2004 WRX STi Black & gold |
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Last edited by wolverine; 06-22-2003 at 08:59 AM. |
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06-23-2003, 04:28 PM | #55 |
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Member#: 3184
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Albuquerque, NM
Vehicle:00 Grp N Wrx STi, +99 V6 STi, |
Shiv,
Can you explain more on what you mean about the reversed values with the wrx vs sti? The sti ecu does not seem to do much correction with knock and rarely picks up the knock. Thanks.... |
06-23-2003, 08:49 PM | #56 |
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Member#: 9038
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Duluth MN
Vehicle:2004 Sti Platinum Silver |
ping
They filled my Sti up with 91 octane and I got detonation like a bag of popcorn going off all at once at 4000 to 4500 rpms.
I ran that tank out and filled up with 93 octane and added a can of NOS octane booster. I have only heard it detonate once at about 5500 rpms on this tank of gas. |
06-23-2003, 08:54 PM | #57 |
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Member#: 33755
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Duluth,MN
Vehicle:2002 WRX Blue |
our gas sucks!
we need better gas
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06-23-2003, 09:57 PM | #58 |
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Join Date: Oct 2001
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Tri-State
Location: Long Island, NY
Vehicle:1988 E30S52 DD S14VQ35 & S13KA racecarzz |
Ok, went back to adam at Z1 perfomance to take him for a ride in the nice hot 86 degree weather we had today and he didn't notice any detting at all with A/C on full boil and WOT. I'm running on 94 octane gas. Was good news for my ears that's for sure! Going to vote on the poll.
Tom |
06-24-2003, 07:31 AM | #59 | |
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Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region:
International
Location: Cambridgeshire, England, UK
Vehicle:2123 JDM STi Black |
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06-25-2003, 09:24 AM | #60 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 38834
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Tinley Park, IL
Vehicle:04 WRX STi Platinum Silver |
Okay i did some quick 3-4 rpm testing yesterday. Condition 93 degrees with crazy humidity.
Gas used: Shell 93 octane Mileage 700 miles I did some 3rd gear and 4th gear pull from 2 to 3k rpm, 2-4k rpm and some gradual pull from 3 to 4.5k rpm. I didn't hear anything except for the common boxer sound and the whine of the turbo.. It seems pretty clean from all rpm range. I did this test in an open vacant new village, with my head sticking out lol.. |
06-25-2003, 10:36 AM | #61 |
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Member#: 23341
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Overland Park, KS
Vehicle:04 Rex STi WRB/Gold |
No mention of being uphill....
If you want to really push the envelope, put the engine under more load (uphill). |
06-25-2003, 12:50 PM | #62 |
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Member#: 5227
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Rochester, New York, USA
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Not sure why anyone would want to try to induce pinging by driving in a non-realistic fashion ???
If you're going uphill in high gear (5th, 6th?) and really low revs and labouring the engine, then you probably can induce pinging by stomping on the gas; the manual clearly states that this may happen.......but really that's no way to be driving any manual transmission car. Now if pinging occurs under "normal" load conditions when accelerating briskly through the 4k rev range that's something to be more concerned about. |
06-25-2003, 01:56 PM | #63 |
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Vehicle:04 Rex STi WRB/Gold |
I agree completely, but I wouldn't consider 4k going uphill under decent acceleration an 'extreme' situation. Just mentioning that most ping cases seem to occur during incline acceleration. I'd hope, regardless of the gear, that 4k RPMs isn't 'laboring' for this engine.
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06-25-2003, 02:01 PM | #64 | |
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Uphill
Hey CloNeGTS!
Quote:
Mike McBride |
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06-25-2003, 05:54 PM | #65 |
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Hey CloNeGTS,
Sorry, my earlier post wasn't meant to be facetious or smart-ass. I think what I meant to say was that if someone seeks out hilly terrain, and intentionally shifts the car into 6th at an unreasonably low speed going uphill (e.g. 20-30 mph) and then gets on the gas (keeping the car in 6th gear, for example), these extreme loading conditions will probably induce pinging.....but we shouldn't be driving the car this way. If it pings frequently and long-term under normal driving conditions, even "aggressive" driving conditions, then that's just not right. |
06-25-2003, 10:46 PM | #66 |
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Location: Overland Park, KS
Vehicle:04 Rex STi WRB/Gold |
Oh yeah...naw, I understand what you were saying. I didn't clarify either.....
Kansas...yeah.....we have mounds....not really hills! |
06-26-2003, 02:11 PM | #67 |
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Join Date: Jun 2003
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say youre going into a turn and you leave it in 3rd because you dont think youre going to lose that much speed...then say you decel to about 15, and then hit the gas on the way out of the turn. is that sound (diesel truck like sound) the sound of pinging? still having a little trouble figuring out what it sounds like...
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06-26-2003, 05:09 PM | #68 |
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Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Rochester, New York, USA
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No, that's not pinging.........that's probably just the engine labouring because you're in too high a gear for that speed/RPM.....not good, especially if you're still running it in.
Pinging sounds like pebbles bouncing around in a metal can (one description I've heard). |
06-26-2003, 10:26 PM | #69 |
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06-27-2003, 07:32 PM | #70 |
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Its seems nobody has made the distinction (unless I missed it) between pinging and detonation. There is a BIG difference between the two. Detonation is harmful. If you experience true detonation you'll either sustain immediate engine damage and/or the CEL will come on.
Pinging is not detonation. The knock sensor does not detect pinging. It detects knock. I'm no car genius but I thought this was common knowledge? |
06-28-2003, 01:07 PM | #71 |
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Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Colorado Springs, CO. USA
Vehicle:2004 Impreza WRX STi Aspen White |
A lot of terms are used loosely around here but as I understand it you have pre-ignition and detonation. Pre-ignition is when carbon deposits in the combustion chamber retain enough heat (a hot spot) that it will ignite the fuel mixture prior to spark ignition. Detonation is caused by low octane fuel. The higher the octane rating the more resistant the fuel is to ignite at lower temperatures and pressures. In either case the point is that the mixture is ignited before the spark fires when the piston is still compressing the intake charge. Whether pre-ignition or detonation a "ping" is generated/heard because of the blunt force of the explosion in the combustion chamber happening too early when the piston is still on the compression up-stroke. Either one can cause engine damage and both will make the "ping" sound people are talking about in this thread.
Punk |
07-03-2003, 08:33 AM | #72 |
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FYI - SOA is reading this post. (I can't tell ya so don't ask)
SOA wants to see the plots, maps and graphs to determine "IF" there's a problem. |
07-03-2003, 08:43 AM | #73 |
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There's the TurboXS graph I've already linked on the first page. See that hump @ 4Krpm? There's your problem - the jump in timing at or near the motor's peak VE. |
07-03-2003, 08:44 AM | #74 | |
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Of course they didn't do it before the car came out... |
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07-03-2003, 09:03 AM | #75 |
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With all due respect, SOA does NOT consider this to be a problem. They have stated that some ping/knock is expected due to their aggressive tuning and poor fuel standards in the US. Unless some very well documented proof is provided they will take NO action.
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