Is the STi clutch assembly really any good?

essogas · 09-14-2003, 11:43 PM

I wonder because, I seem to smoke my clutch often enough and it always smells terrible and goes through the cabin. I get this when I do fast launches, rev around 4000 RPm and let it go... or sometimes just regular fast but shifting. Hmmmm, when I had my mustang, the stock clutch seemed rock solid, never smelled it and dumped it all the time.

Maybe before doing any HP mods I think I (based on my driving style) might seriously consider putting in a beefier clutch, or assembly. What do you think?

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

Zoso · 09-15-2003, 12:02 AM

I was wondering about this myself. I have noticed less clutch smell recently. When I really want to move I rev to 4000 - 5000 rpms and let the clutch up as fast as possible with out droping it, but without bogging it either. This requires modulation with the accelerator pedal. I know you already know all this, but I'm just commenting on my observations. To get this down right takes a lot of practice though, and I wonder how much the stock clutch is going to stand up to this "practice." So for that reason I don't do it that much. You can get moving pretty good from a low rpm, clutch friendly launch, but when you want to move as fast as possible there is no way around doing it the other way.

HFTuRbo · 09-15-2003, 12:10 AM

Gee, I don't really want to find-out by attempting those kind of launches. It goes well enough w/o the abuse. I did that with the `02 WRX and it wasn't the same afterwards.

Zoso · 09-15-2003, 12:21 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by HFTuRbo
Gee, I don't really want to find-out by attempting those kind of launches. It goes well enough w/o the abuse. I did that with the `02 WRX and it wasn't the same afterwards.

One of the reasons I got this car was because of the advertised 4.8 0-60 time. No way you can get that without a hard launch. If the car doesn't like going 0-60 in 4.8 seconds and people have to use the word "abuse" when getting it to do so, then Subaru has no business advertising a 4.8 0-60 time.

essogas · 09-15-2003, 12:25 AM

It just doesn't seem as "sturdy" as the rest of the parts and systems of the car. I want a tight clutch that really grips hard, you know? It's something about it doesn't feel as sharp as it could be. That, and maybe a little bit of body roll reduction, I'd like to fix, but that's getting nitpicky. Other than that it's perfect!

essogas · 09-15-2003, 12:34 AM

I agree with Zoso about the 0-60 times. And it shouldn't be called abuse. It's designed for aggresive driving practises and let me tell you, I drive this thing hard...but SMOOTH. But I'm unsure about this clutch assembly. Anyone recommend a good aftermarket one and how much they sell for?

XT6Wagon · 09-15-2003, 01:17 AM

Its great. I have oh about 50+ WOT launches on mine so far and it still hooks up great. Just don't launch hard in 2nd.....

somebody else · 09-15-2003, 03:13 AM

I think the Mustang was a better choice for you.

--scott

shirokuma · 09-15-2003, 05:10 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by essogas
Hmmmm, when I had my mustang, the stock clutch seemed rock solid, never smelled it and dumped it all the time.

Because the Mustang was RWD and the rear tyres were easily the weakest link in the chain. Don't tell me the rubber didn't go up in smoke at all when you dumped it? (because, if so, that's one underpowered Mustang...)

The clutch assembly is quite good. It should hold up to a fair amount of abuse. But please don't use best possible acceleration numbers as an excuse to complain about why your clutch/drivetrain failed, if it does indeed fail. No car is bulletproof, and even the strongest generally have at least one part in the chain that will go if abused regularly. And dumping the clutch at every single opportunity is indeed abuse. That doesn't mean you cannot do it, but believe me, rear tyres spinning was always better than your clutch spinning.

Really, don't get me wrong, but RWD vs. AWD, you get the better hole shot because you do have more traction. Thus, instead of the rear tyre(s) giving, you are now far more open to the possibility that the clutch will give. If you don't like that, get some really slippery rubber for your AWD (worth it for AWD burnout grin factor alone).

And, to be honest, if you read enough road tests, you will read frequently enough that the testers do break some component, or wear something out. The testers are not concerned with longevity, only numbers.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
www.apexjapan.com

lstepnio · 09-15-2003, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zoso

One of the reasons I got this car was because of the advertised 4.8 0-60 time. No way you can get that without a hard launch. If the car doesn't like going 0-60 in 4.8 seconds and people have to use the word "abuse" when getting it to do so, then Subaru has no business advertising a 4.8 0-60 time.

You do realize we went through this with the WRX, right? I'm impressed/suprised that no one on the forum has blown a tranny or complained about having to replace the clutch.

strangerq · 09-15-2003, 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lstepnio

You do realize we went through this with the WRX, right? I'm impressed/suprised that no one on the forum has blown a tranny or complained about having to replace the clutch.

Go to the Evo forums for whining about clutches, warranties, launches and lawsuits.

essogas · 09-15-2003, 01:24 PM

[quote]Originally posted by shirokuma

Because the Mustang was RWD and the rear tyres were easily the weakest link in the chain. Don't tell me the rubber didn't go up in smoke at all when you dumped it? (because, if so, that's one underpowered Mustang...)

Really, don't get me wrong, but RWD vs. AWD, you get the better hole shot because you do have more traction. Thus, instead of the rear tyre(s) giving, you are now far more open to the possibility that the clutch will give. ICheers,

Paul Hansen
www.apexjapan.com [/

[quote]

Thanks Paul, this is a good explanation to what's going on. And yes, I did smoke the tires on the mustang and no, I don't "dump" my clutch often; just twice actually.

As for some of the others who responded, I wasn't whining. I was just wondering what other people more knowledgable than me thought about the clutch.

WRXURV8 · 09-15-2003, 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Zoso

One of the reasons I got this car was because of the advertised 4.8 0-60 time. No way you can get that without a hard launch. If the car doesn't like going 0-60 in 4.8 seconds and people have to use the word "abuse" when getting it to do so, then Subaru has no business advertising a 4.8 0-60 time.

You are driving an all-wheel drive car with very sticky tires and TONS of GRIP. Something has to give. Feather the clutch a bit more. Don't just dump it. The STI will reach 4.8 with no problem. It is a good thing you don't have a WRX because with the lack of low end torque, you would drive yourself nuts trying to lower your 0-60. Either change your launch technique or buy a RWD car.

Burke · 09-15-2003, 02:27 PM

Or drive around with the DCCD in open position . This will provide some clutch relief by allowing the rear tires to spin when dumping to fast.

Zoso · 09-15-2003, 06:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Burke
Or drive around with the DCCD in open position . This will provide some clutch relief by allowing the rear tires to spin when dumping to fast.

I was just going to say that!

Anyway, I know all about AWD and how the STi is a track/rally car and not a drag racer blah, blah, blah. Subaru advertises the STi 4.8 seconds 0-60, so my only point is the car should be able to do that without having to abuse anything. Honestly I haven't even timed myself 0-60 yet, when I do I will get more opinionated about this whole subject whether it's good or bad.

Keith99RS · 09-15-2003, 06:27 PM

Subaru advertises the car is capable of 0-60 times of 4.8, not that it will continue to do them 30-100 times or for 100K miles worth of track days at the strip.

The clutch slips by design to prevent catastrophic drive line failure. If you continued to do hard/clutch drop acceleration with no clutch slip, the tranny, diffrentials, drive shafts and some engine parts may have a very short life due to the shock.

VSM EXtasy · 09-15-2003, 06:58 PM

keep on driving it hard and see what the dealer says.

A real rally car costs almost half a million dollars and has a crew and a engineer to keep it running.

You don't.

here is a great quote from "Car and Driver"

"One word of warning to those who might try to duplicate our acceleration numbers: Don't. These are not drag racers, and what a stopwatch considers a good start a dealership service department considers a lucrative one. "

Zoso · 09-15-2003, 07:19 PM

Guys, I agree with everything you're saying. The only part I don't agree with is the fact that Subaru not Car and Driver advertises a 4.8 0-60 time. That is called a selling point. It's a reason for you to buy the car. If Subaru doesn't want you taking the car to 60 in 4.8 seconds, then it shouldn't be a selling point. Or at least they should make you sign a disclaimer when you buy the car that "even though we enticed you to buy this car by telling you it can go to 60 in 4.8 seconds, you're not allowed to actually do that."

Hey while we are at it are there any other selling points on Subaru cars that you don't expect the car to have perform safely and reliably? Hey maybe the car has AWD, but your not supposed to actually use it. Maybe the car has ABS, but you're not supposed use it. Maybe the car has airbags, but they don't actually have to work. Maybe the car has an AUTO DCCD to enhance handling, but don't actually use that setting because it can wear out. Maybe the car can do 0 - 60 in 4.8 seconds but don't actually do that either.

So all I'm saying is don't tell me the car can do 0 - 60 in 4.8 seconds if it's not safe to do so. Be honest, tell me the car can do it in 5.9, and if I find out I can do it in 4.8 but I break the car in the process then that would be my fault.

Keith99RS · 09-15-2003, 07:41 PM

Zoso - You put unrealistic expectations on Subaru and their advertising. The car is advertised as being able to do 0-60 on 4.8 and it can. On a street car, how many times are you going to need or have to accellerate to 60 in 4.8 seconds?? This car isn't a dragster, it is a street car. Would you have still bought it if it put up WRX accelleration numbers?? From the way you write it sure sounds like you wouldn't. No car responds well to clutch drops repeatedly, especially AWD cars. If you want a dragster, go build one. Don't go buy a showroom car and expect it to take repeated abuse. By the way, there are no garantees you would even be able to reproduce the advertised accelleration numbers yourself anyways. For all you know they had a 120lb professional driver in the car to save weight and took the best run out of 10. And don't say SUbaru must have inflated the number, because most manufacturers are guilty of that at one time or another.

VSM EXtasy · 09-15-2003, 07:43 PM

Its advertising to sell cars.

Same with S2000, only way to get those times are to sidestep the clutch at 8 grand.

High performance cars are like a finely tuned musical instrument. You have to get it tuned relgularly to keep it running in its optimal condition. Even race cars are not immune to things breaking. If you drive the car hard, you gotta take the consenqence of it breaking.

Anyways the Airbag black box records data of your Speed, RPM, what gear and so forth so if you do end up breaking your car at the track, the dealers will know.

Zoso · 09-15-2003, 07:51 PM

"Let the buyer beware"

I still don't think that any manfactuer should be able to advertise their product as being capable of doing something in order to make you buy it with the expectation of using it in the way advertised when in fact the product is not capable of consistently performing in that manner.

I guess my issue isn't with Subaru, but with the current state of acceptable business ethics.

Last but not least I love this car and I wouldn't sell it for any less than 36K. and if I did find someone willing to give me 36K for it

I would go back to where I bought it and get another one.

jagcars26 · 09-15-2003, 08:36 PM

This thread is soooo much like the old WRX " the tranny and clutch are made of glass" or the "my car eats crap because the tranny wont take 5 grand clutch drops" it's really funny.
Kinda like ,,your garbage disposal will eat rocks but mine busted on the 36th rock.

Just a word of advice Zoso,keep doin the clutch drops and you will get to know your service advisor real well.And believe me he doesnt care if the car does 0-60 in ten minutes or ten hours

Rudy

edit add,,i'm not saying the STi has a weak clutch or tranny,,,,abuse anything and you will pay in the end.

z · 09-15-2003, 08:47 PM

Hey look at the bright side-

When your clutch goes...and they all will eventually,

you can replace it with this:

ATS Triple Plate Carbon Clutch - $2200

http://www.godspeedinc.com/WRX.html

Edit: comes with the lightweight flywheel

EDIT: better link :

http://www.godspeedinc.com/ATS.html

essogas · 09-15-2003, 08:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by zavigm
Hey look at the bright side-

When your clutch goes...and they all will eventually,
you can replace it with this:
ATS Triple Plate Carbon Clutch - $2200
http://www.godspeedinc.com/WRX.html
Edit: comes with the lightweight flywheel

Exactly. Guys, I can tell you this right now. I could care less what goes on the car. If it breaks, falters, or whatever... a newer, better variant goes in replace. I will drive my car as I like.

jagcars26 · 09-15-2003, 10:25 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by essogas

Exactly. Guys, I can tell you this right now. I could care less what goes on the car. If it breaks, falters, or whatever... a newer, better variant goes in replace. I will drive my car as I like.

Read the title to this thread you started,then reread what others had to say as offering you some advice,then read the last statement that you made

No wonder the OT crew has so many laughs here

Rudy

09-14-2003, 11:43 PM	#1
essogas Scooby Specialist Member#: 35703 Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Toronto, Ontario Vehicle: 2004 WRX STi Blue/British Black 18's	Is the STi clutch assembly really any good? I wonder because, I seem to smoke my clutch often enough and it always smells terrible and goes through the cabin. I get this when I do fast launches, rev around 4000 RPm and let it go... or sometimes just regular fast but shifting. Hmmmm, when I had my mustang, the stock clutch seemed rock solid, never smelled it and dumped it all the time. Maybe before doing any HP mods I think I (based on my driving style) might seriously consider putting in a beefier clutch, or assembly. What do you think? * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

09-15-2003, 01:24 PM	#12
essogas Scooby Specialist Member#: 35703 Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Toronto, Ontario Vehicle: 2004 WRX STi Blue/British Black 18's	Re: Re: Is the STi clutch assembly really any good? [quote]Originally posted by shirokuma Because the Mustang was RWD and the rear tyres were easily the weakest link in the chain. Don't tell me the rubber didn't go up in smoke at all when you dumped it? (because, if so, that's one underpowered Mustang...) Really, don't get me wrong, but RWD vs. AWD, you get the better hole shot because you do have more traction. Thus, instead of the rear tyre(s) giving, you are now far more open to the possibility that the clutch will give. ICheers, Paul Hansen www.apexjapan.com [/ [quote] Thanks Paul, this is a good explanation to what's going on. And yes, I did smoke the tires on the mustang and no, I don't "dump" my clutch often; just twice actually. As for some of the others who responded, I wasn't whining. I was just wondering what other people more knowledgable than me thought about the clutch.

09-15-2003, 08:47 PM	#23
z Scooby Specialist Member#: 41762 Join Date: Aug 2003 Chapter/Region: International Location: House of Pancakes Vehicle: 04 STi in ur Floriduh	Hey look at the bright side- When your clutch goes...and they all will eventually, you can replace it with this: ATS Triple Plate Carbon Clutch - $2200 http://www.godspeedinc.com/WRX.html Edit: comes with the lightweight flywheel EDIT: better link : http://www.godspeedinc.com/ATS.html Last edited by z; 09-15-2003 at 09:11 PM.

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09-15-2003, 12:02 AM	#2
Zoso Scooby Specialist Member#: 37962 Join Date: Jun 2003 Vehicle: 2006 CGM STI 2000 Outback & 05 BMW M3	I was wondering about this myself. I have noticed less clutch smell recently. When I really want to move I rev to 4000 - 5000 rpms and let the clutch up as fast as possible with out droping it, but without bogging it either. This requires modulation with the accelerator pedal. I know you already know all this, but I'm just commenting on my observations. To get this down right takes a lot of practice though, and I wonder how much the stock clutch is going to stand up to this "practice." So for that reason I don't do it that much. You can get moving pretty good from a low rpm, clutch friendly launch, but when you want to move as fast as possible there is no way around doing it the other way.

09-15-2003, 12:10 AM	#3
HFTuRbo Scooby Newbie Member#: 34388 Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Lehigh Valley, PA Vehicle: 04 WRX STi Black w/gunmetal	Gee, I don't really want to find-out by attempting those kind of launches. It goes well enough w/o the abuse. I did that with the `02 WRX and it wasn't the same afterwards.

09-15-2003, 12:25 AM	#5
essogas Scooby Specialist Member#: 35703 Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Toronto, Ontario Vehicle: 2004 WRX STi Blue/British Black 18's	It just doesn't seem as "sturdy" as the rest of the parts and systems of the car. I want a tight clutch that really grips hard, you know? It's something about it doesn't feel as sharp as it could be. That, and maybe a little bit of body roll reduction, I'd like to fix, but that's getting nitpicky. Other than that it's perfect!

09-15-2003, 12:34 AM	#6
essogas Scooby Specialist Member#: 35703 Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Toronto, Ontario Vehicle: 2004 WRX STi Blue/British Black 18's	I agree with Zoso about the 0-60 times. And it shouldn't be called abuse. It's designed for aggresive driving practises and let me tell you, I drive this thing hard...but SMOOTH. But I'm unsure about this clutch assembly. Anyone recommend a good aftermarket one and how much they sell for?

09-15-2003, 01:17 AM	#7
XT6Wagon Scooby Specialist Member#: 524 Join Date: Nov 1999 Location: WA Vehicle: 04 STi White	Its great. I have oh about 50+ WOT launches on mine so far and it still hooks up great. Just don't launch hard in 2nd.....

09-15-2003, 03:13 AM	#8
somebody else Scooby Specialist Member#: 21618 Join Date: Jul 2002 Chapter/Region: SCIC Location: southern California	I think the Mustang was a better choice for you. --scott

09-15-2003, 02:27 PM	#14
Burke Scooby Newbie Member#: 38939 Join Date: Jun 2003 Vehicle: 2004 STI Black w/ Gold Rims	Or drive around with the DCCD in open position . This will provide some clutch relief by allowing the rear tires to spin when dumping to fast.

09-15-2003, 06:27 PM	#16
Keith99RS Scooby Specialist Member#: 9243 Join Date: Aug 2001 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Suffield, CT Vehicle: 05 Nissan Titan 06 B9 (hers)	Subaru advertises the car is capable of 0-60 times of 4.8, not that it will continue to do them 30-100 times or for 100K miles worth of track days at the strip. The clutch slips by design to prevent catastrophic drive line failure. If you continued to do hard/clutch drop acceleration with no clutch slip, the tranny, diffrentials, drive shafts and some engine parts may have a very short life due to the shock.

09-15-2003, 06:58 PM	#17
VSM EXtasy * Banned * Member#: 5220 Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Bermuda triangle of Hondas. Vehicle: 98 SVT Contour Silver	keep on driving it hard and see what the dealer says. A real rally car costs almost half a million dollars and has a crew and a engineer to keep it running. You don't. here is a great quote from "Car and Driver" "One word of warning to those who might try to duplicate our acceleration numbers: Don't. These are not drag racers, and what a stopwatch considers a good start a dealership service department considers a lucrative one. "

09-15-2003, 07:19 PM	#18
Zoso Scooby Specialist Member#: 37962 Join Date: Jun 2003 Vehicle: 2006 CGM STI 2000 Outback & 05 BMW M3	Guys, I agree with everything you're saying. The only part I don't agree with is the fact that Subaru not Car and Driver advertises a 4.8 0-60 time. That is called a selling point. It's a reason for you to buy the car. If Subaru doesn't want you taking the car to 60 in 4.8 seconds, then it shouldn't be a selling point. Or at least they should make you sign a disclaimer when you buy the car that "even though we enticed you to buy this car by telling you it can go to 60 in 4.8 seconds, you're not allowed to actually do that." Hey while we are at it are there any other selling points on Subaru cars that you don't expect the car to have perform safely and reliably? Hey maybe the car has AWD, but your not supposed to actually use it. Maybe the car has ABS, but you're not supposed use it. Maybe the car has airbags, but they don't actually have to work. Maybe the car has an AUTO DCCD to enhance handling, but don't actually use that setting because it can wear out. Maybe the car can do 0 - 60 in 4.8 seconds but don't actually do that either. So all I'm saying is don't tell me the car can do 0 - 60 in 4.8 seconds if it's not safe to do so. Be honest, tell me the car can do it in 5.9, and if I find out I can do it in 4.8 but I break the car in the process then that would be my fault.

09-15-2003, 07:41 PM	#19
Keith99RS Scooby Specialist Member#: 9243 Join Date: Aug 2001 Chapter/Region: NESIC Location: Suffield, CT Vehicle: 05 Nissan Titan 06 B9 (hers)	Zoso - You put unrealistic expectations on Subaru and their advertising. The car is advertised as being able to do 0-60 on 4.8 and it can. On a street car, how many times are you going to need or have to accellerate to 60 in 4.8 seconds?? This car isn't a dragster, it is a street car. Would you have still bought it if it put up WRX accelleration numbers?? From the way you write it sure sounds like you wouldn't. No car responds well to clutch drops repeatedly, especially AWD cars. If you want a dragster, go build one. Don't go buy a showroom car and expect it to take repeated abuse. By the way, there are no garantees you would even be able to reproduce the advertised accelleration numbers yourself anyways. For all you know they had a 120lb professional driver in the car to save weight and took the best run out of 10. And don't say SUbaru must have inflated the number, because most manufacturers are guilty of that at one time or another.

09-15-2003, 07:43 PM	#20
VSM EXtasy * Banned * Member#: 5220 Join Date: Mar 2001 Location: Bermuda triangle of Hondas. Vehicle: 98 SVT Contour Silver	Its advertising to sell cars. Same with S2000, only way to get those times are to sidestep the clutch at 8 grand. High performance cars are like a finely tuned musical instrument. You have to get it tuned relgularly to keep it running in its optimal condition. Even race cars are not immune to things breaking. If you drive the car hard, you gotta take the consenqence of it breaking. Anyways the Airbag black box records data of your Speed, RPM, what gear and so forth so if you do end up breaking your car at the track, the dealers will know.

09-15-2003, 07:51 PM	#21
Zoso Scooby Specialist Member#: 37962 Join Date: Jun 2003 Vehicle: 2006 CGM STI 2000 Outback & 05 BMW M3	"Let the buyer beware" I still don't think that any manfactuer should be able to advertise their product as being capable of doing something in order to make you buy it with the expectation of using it in the way advertised when in fact the product is not capable of consistently performing in that manner. I guess my issue isn't with Subaru, but with the current state of acceptable business ethics. Last but not least I love this car and I wouldn't sell it for any less than 36K. and if I did find someone willing to give me 36K for it I would go back to where I bought it and get another one.

09-15-2003, 08:36 PM	#22
jagcars26 Scooby Specialist Member#: 2394 Join Date: Sep 2000 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Bel Air Md. Vehicle: 2005 Legacy GT wagon 2009 Forester X	This thread is soooo much like the old WRX " the tranny and clutch are made of glass" or the "my car eats crap because the tranny wont take 5 grand clutch drops" it's really funny. Kinda like ,,your garbage disposal will eat rocks but mine busted on the 36th rock. Just a word of advice Zoso,keep doin the clutch drops and you will get to know your service advisor real well.And believe me he doesnt care if the car does 0-60 in ten minutes or ten hours Rudy edit add,,i'm not saying the STi has a weak clutch or tranny,,,,abuse anything and you will pay in the end.