The air/water intercooler thead - Page 9

slowgenius · 12-25-2014, 01:06 PM

If you wanted to cut a huge hole in your hood, a heat exchanger could go there, almost like a v mount, then you could low mount thr turbo, and put tbe intercooler in the piping to the intake manifold.

Moore performance actually combined the intake manifold and intercooler into individual banks over each head, with the charge pipe in the middle.

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

k mier · 12-25-2014, 11:40 PM

No, you're absolutely right, room is going to be an issue. This is more with what I was thinking; type 26 ic, (15x6.5x6), long but not very wide mounted against the firewall and set low, right above the rear engine mount, and a heat exchanger similar to type 100, (24x12x1) but smaller, maybe 20x10x1, mounted on the hood beneath the scoop opening which measures around 18x6. The 1" thickness would be great but have yet to find one around that size. There might be room to mount a thin fan to the underside of the heat exchanger and still clear everything below.

A smaller exchanger and IC 'might' work and the smaller size would be nice but expected numbers for my build, once I get the drive to return working on her, should be in the solid 500+ range. I think that will require the larger rated cores.

... and yes, it would be nice to have the better throttle response loosing those 8' of IC plumbing should provide.

Just thinking out-loud, YMMV.

dwx · 12-26-2014, 03:08 PM

So with their S/C kit for the 86, Cosworth built a quad-pass heat exchanger to go in the front.

I've looked around and I can't seem to find anyone selling a quad-pass exchanger, has anyone seen such a think out there? I was tempted to buy one of the Cobra dual-pass ones until I saw the Cosworth one.

http://www.cosworth.com/media/452826...inImgLarge.jpg

Cosworth sadly won't sell me just the heat exchanger which is a bummer since it bolts right up.

slowgenius · 12-26-2014, 04:37 PM

The frozenboost one is a dual pass, it looks like that one is two of the same style stacked together. That would be huge, and would probably be overkill unless you are over 1200 hp at the crank.

slowgenius · 12-26-2014, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k mier

No, you're absolutely right, room is going to be an issue. This is more with what I was thinking; type 26 ic, (15x6.5x6), long but not very wide mounted against the firewall and set low, right above the rear engine mount, and a heat exchanger similar to type 100, (24x12x1) but smaller, maybe 20x10x1, mounted on the hood beneath the scoop opening which measures around 18x6. The 1" thickness would be great but have yet to find one around that size. There might be room to mount a thin fan to the underside of the heat exchanger and still clear everything below.

A smaller exchanger and IC 'might' work and the smaller size would be nice but expected numbers for my build, once I get the drive to return working on her, should be in the solid 500+ range. I think that will require the larger rated cores.

... and yes, it would be nice to have the better throttle response loosing those 8' of IC plumbing should provide.

Just thinking out-loud, YMMV.

If you really want the scoop mount location, there really is no need for awic. A good top mount air to air (spearco, ETS) have been shown to work into that power range. They will suffer heat soak, but so will anything top mounted. Granted it will take longer to heat awic, but will take longer to cool down also.

dwx · 12-26-2014, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowgenius

The frozenboost one is a dual pass, it looks like that one is two of the same style stacked together. That would be huge, and would probably be overkill unless you are over 1200 hp at the crank.

I don't think dimension wise it's that large. They built the kit to handle 20-30 minute track sessions, so they felt they needed a large surface area and the quad pass heat exchanger. I believe they started with a dual pass and it wasn't sufficient. This is with a TVS900 blower running at almost max RPM. The system also has no reservoir.

slowgenius · 12-26-2014, 07:35 PM

Having no resevoir is why it needs to be that big.

Also it could be 1 inch thick as opposed to 2 to 4 inches thick. If you have the frontal area to run something like that go for it.

Type2 · 12-26-2014, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dstroy

It's a type 26 core, the turbo is a gtx3582r with a .82 tial v band turbine housing.
20gpm pump and reservoir in the trunk, 3/4" lines. GM iat sensor.

I forgot to ask. Are you running a radiator, if so, what kind? Also, what kind of pump are you running? Thanks.

dstroy · 12-27-2014, 11:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Type2

I forgot to ask. Are you running a radiator, if so, what kind? Also, what kind of pump are you running? Thanks.

Type 101 heat exchanger, meziere 20gpm pump mounted in my trunk next to my reservoir.

dstroy · 12-27-2014, 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slowgenius

Having no resevoir is why it needs to be that big.

Also it could be 1 inch thick as opposed to 2 to 4 inches thick. If you have the frontal area to run something like that go for it.

I had the large 1" thick radiator for a while, and with ducting it would probably be great but just mounting it up and sealing the edges around it to the condenser it didn't work as well as the ones that go in the usual fmic location

slomofo · 03-10-2015, 08:06 PM

Sorry to bump an old thread, but out of curiosity, are you guys running fans on your heat exchangers?

I have an 04 Forester and I don't want to cut my bumper up, but I don't think I'll have room to mount a fan behind the exchanger. Can I get away with custom ducting to route my air dam opening into the exchanger?

svynx · 02-11-2016, 11:01 AM

It has been a long time since I posted here. Time for a very small update. I haven't changed anything. Only maintenance I have done was top off the system about once a year. Other than that, no issues. I am currently doing a hybrid build, and the core type I have will not flow enough for the new setup. I have a type 14 sitting here which will do the job nicely. Since I'm doing a little work on the car, I am going to take the fender mounted reservoir box out and add on in the trunk, along with a better pump. I suspect that I will also edit the way the exchanger is mounted. I cut the bumper beam to get it to fit and that has bothered me since day one. I want to spend some time and see if there is a better option.

vicious_fishes · 02-18-2016, 04:56 AM

the type 14 gives around a 60 degrees C reduction in intake temps

mwmplayboy · 02-18-2016, 05:29 AM

Saved for future reference. Once I build up some funds, I'll be reworking my setup.

svynx · 02-18-2016, 11:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vicious_fishes

the type 14 gives around a 60 degrees C reduction in intake temps

Good to know. I wasn't worried about temps as much as the CFM issue I'd run into by using the core I have now. Going from the stock TD04 to a 41lb/min turbo.

mwmplayboy · 02-18-2016, 07:14 PM

Has anyone thought of using the 12L Spec C intercooler tank as a reservoir? It has a pump installed from the factory, but I'm not sure if it would work for an AWI setup. I know people have converted them to work for meth injection. They are pricier than the frozenboost.com reservoir, but are "factory" products and look pretty slick.

http://www.rallysportdirect.com/part...-sti-2002-2007

svynx · 02-19-2016, 08:10 AM

I originally looked at that tank when I built my system. I'm sure that it could be modified to work, but I thing that at that point you might as well go with something that is designed for the job. You'd have to put a different pump on as the stock one won't flow enough. Then add a hole or two depending on how the new pump was mounted to get water in and out (not just the fill point, which would work beautifully as it looks like it would be the highest point in the system).

wrxhard · 02-19-2016, 12:51 PM

I knew I recognized your user name when I looks at your "budget baller" build thread... HAH!!!

svynx · 02-19-2016, 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wrxhard

I knew I recognized your user name when I looks at your "budget baller" build thread... HAH!!!

LOL. Always nice to hear that there is some recognition on this site for us lonely people.

mwmplayboy · 02-19-2016, 01:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svynx

LOL. Always nice to hear that there is some recognition on this site for us lonely people.

Tried to look up your build thread on the NASIOC app by going to your profile.

Relevant?
http://i.imgur.com/AG02oV4.jpg

svynx · 02-19-2016, 01:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mwmplayboy

Tried to look up your build thread on the NASIOC app by going to your profile.

Relevant?

Not sure why it's saying I don't exist. Clearly I'm here.

Build thread is in the Built Motor Discussion. Hybrid build.

vicious_fishes · 02-22-2016, 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mwmplayboy

Has anyone thought of using the 12L Spec C intercooler tank as a reservoir? It has a pump installed from the factory, but I'm not sure if it would work for an AWI setup. I know people have converted them to work for meth injection. They are pricier than the frozenboost.com reservoir, but are "factory" products and look pretty slick.

http://www.rallysportdirect.com/part...-sti-2002-2007

Quote:

Originally Posted by svynx

I originally looked at that tank when I built my system. I'm sure that it could be modified to work, but I thing that at that point you might as well go with something that is designed for the job. You'd have to put a different pump on as the stock one won't flow enough. Then add a hole or two depending on how the new pump was mounted to get water in and out (not just the fill point, which would work beautifully as it looks like it would be the highest point in the system).

Yes, and I was going to do exactly that, but there's an easier option: get a wagon washer fluid reservoir, pull the rear window pump out, and feed the water line through the *perfectly* round hole that now remains.

A quick squirt of silicone around the join and 24 hours to let it set and you're in business

Quote:

Originally Posted by svynx

Good to know. I wasn't worried about temps as much as the CFM issue I'd run into by using the core I have now. Going from the stock TD04 to a 41lb/min turbo.

The 14 will be more than enough. We've been using the 13 with a 50lb/min for years.

svynx · 02-22-2016, 09:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vicious_fishes

The 14 will be more than enough. We've been using the 13 with a 50lb/min for years.

Interesting. I currently am using the type 13 (450cfm max). From what I've read, the TD04 flows around 390-400cfm. The 41lb/min Blouch turbo I will be using flows around 593 cfm (using the 1 lb/min = 14.47178cfm equation), and that is the reason I have the type 14 (700cfm). Going by that, the type 13 would choke the turbo on the higher end. I guess it's more of a sustained use vs anything else.

vicious_fishes · 02-22-2016, 09:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by svynx

Interesting. I currently am using the type 13 (450cfm max). From what I've read, the TD04 flows around 390-400cfm. The 41lb/min Blouch turbo I will be using flows around 593 cfm (using the 1 lb/min = 14.47178cfm equation), and that is the reason I have the type 14 (700cfm). Going by that, the type 13 would choke the turbo on the higher end. I guess it's more of a sustained use vs anything else.

I don't think they rate them by cfm meaning "choke" but rather, approximately how pressurised the charge can be before the IC simply can't cool it enough/is overwhelmed. Obviously how hot the charge gets depends on a lot of stuff so they kind of have to make a bit of a guesstimate/ballpark on what the IC can handle with some underpromise built in so people don't start buying gear that loses them performance.

But the 14 and the 13 are like $10 different so if you've got the room there's no reason not to run the 14. Bigger IS better here

In my case with my N/A manifold I only have room for the 13. I tried to get them to custom fab me one but no luck, so I'm now considering running twin coolers with one on top of the IM and one down where the battery is mounted from the factory. The fantastic thing about water cooling is that you can mount the cooler(s) anywhere you want.

svynx · 02-22-2016, 10:23 AM

I'll have to play around with the 14 to see how it fits. Even with the stock manifold, there isn't much room for the 13. It's close to the A/C lines. I'd really like to turn the compressor side 90 degrees and have the output in a vertical position. Would make it easier, and shorter, to route the I/C pipe to the passenger side, but that can't happen with the turbo I have. So, I'll keep the routing I have now the same.
I do plan on purchasing an expansion tank, bolting that to the firewall, and using that to fill and service the system. I don't like how I have it now, and I think the expansion tank will look better.

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12-25-2014, 01:06 PM	#201
slowgenius Scooby Specialist Member#: 48350 Join Date: Nov 2003 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Pittsburgh Vehicle: WRX 03/04/07 hybrid PSM	If you wanted to cut a huge hole in your hood, a heat exchanger could go there, almost like a v mount, then you could low mount thr turbo, and put tbe intercooler in the piping to the intake manifold. Moore performance actually combined the intake manifold and intercooler into individual banks over each head, with the charge pipe in the middle. * Registered users of the site do not see these ads.

12-25-2014, 11:40 PM	#202
k mier Scooby Specialist Member#: 98000 Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: MO Vehicle: 05 sti [email protected]	No, you're absolutely right, room is going to be an issue. This is more with what I was thinking; type 26 ic, (15x6.5x6), long but not very wide mounted against the firewall and set low, right above the rear engine mount, and a heat exchanger similar to type 100, (24x12x1) but smaller, maybe 20x10x1, mounted on the hood beneath the scoop opening which measures around 18x6. The 1" thickness would be great but have yet to find one around that size. There might be room to mount a thin fan to the underside of the heat exchanger and still clear everything below. A smaller exchanger and IC 'might' work and the smaller size would be nice but expected numbers for my build, once I get the drive to return working on her, should be in the solid 500+ range. I think that will require the larger rated cores. ... and yes, it would be nice to have the better throttle response loosing those 8' of IC plumbing should provide. Just thinking out-loud, YMMV.

12-26-2014, 03:08 PM	#203
dwx Scooby Guru Member#: 8343 Join Date: Jul 2001 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: Atlanta, GA Vehicle: 2005 2012 Jeep 2013 DGM BRZ	So with their S/C kit for the 86, Cosworth built a quad-pass heat exchanger to go in the front. I've looked around and I can't seem to find anyone selling a quad-pass exchanger, has anyone seen such a think out there? I was tempted to buy one of the Cobra dual-pass ones until I saw the Cosworth one. http://www.cosworth.com/media/452826...inImgLarge.jpg Cosworth sadly won't sell me just the heat exchanger which is a bummer since it bolts right up.

12-26-2014, 04:37 PM	#204
slowgenius Scooby Specialist Member#: 48350 Join Date: Nov 2003 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Pittsburgh Vehicle: WRX 03/04/07 hybrid PSM	The frozenboost one is a dual pass, it looks like that one is two of the same style stacked together. That would be huge, and would probably be overkill unless you are over 1200 hp at the crank.

12-26-2014, 07:35 PM	#207
slowgenius Scooby Specialist Member#: 48350 Join Date: Nov 2003 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: Pittsburgh Vehicle: WRX 03/04/07 hybrid PSM	Having no resevoir is why it needs to be that big. Also it could be 1 inch thick as opposed to 2 to 4 inches thick. If you have the frontal area to run something like that go for it.

03-10-2015, 08:06 PM	#211
slomofo Scooby Newbie Member#: 134180 Join Date: Dec 2006 Chapter/Region: RMIC Location: Salt Lake City, UT Vehicle: 04 FXT Gold	Sorry to bump an old thread, but out of curiosity, are you guys running fans on your heat exchangers? I have an 04 Forester and I don't want to cut my bumper up, but I don't think I'll have room to mount a fan behind the exchanger. Can I get away with custom ducting to route my air dam opening into the exchanger?

02-11-2016, 11:01 AM	#212
svynx Scooby Specialist Member#: 210371 Join Date: May 2009 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: York, pa Vehicle: 2002 hybrid 16gxt '03 Lifted TS	It has been a long time since I posted here. Time for a very small update. I haven't changed anything. Only maintenance I have done was top off the system about once a year. Other than that, no issues. I am currently doing a hybrid build, and the core type I have will not flow enough for the new setup. I have a type 14 sitting here which will do the job nicely. Since I'm doing a little work on the car, I am going to take the fender mounted reservoir box out and add on in the trunk, along with a better pump. I suspect that I will also edit the way the exchanger is mounted. I cut the bumper beam to get it to fit and that has bothered me since day one. I want to spend some time and see if there is a better option.

02-18-2016, 04:56 AM	#213
vicious_fishes Scooby Guru Member#: 158864 Join Date: Sep 2007 Location: Aussieland Vehicle: 2003 SOHC destroker	the type 14 gives around a 60 degrees C reduction in intake temps

02-18-2016, 05:29 AM	#214
mwmplayboy Scooby Newbie Member#: 241755 Join Date: Mar 2010 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: 812 Indiana Vehicle: 1998 2.5RS Brilliant Red	Saved for future reference. Once I build up some funds, I'll be reworking my setup.

02-18-2016, 07:14 PM	#216
mwmplayboy Scooby Newbie Member#: 241755 Join Date: Mar 2010 Chapter/Region: MWSOC Location: 812 Indiana Vehicle: 1998 2.5RS Brilliant Red	Has anyone thought of using the 12L Spec C intercooler tank as a reservoir? It has a pump installed from the factory, but I'm not sure if it would work for an AWI setup. I know people have converted them to work for meth injection. They are pricier than the frozenboost.com reservoir, but are "factory" products and look pretty slick. http://www.rallysportdirect.com/part...-sti-2002-2007

02-19-2016, 08:10 AM	#217
svynx Scooby Specialist Member#: 210371 Join Date: May 2009 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: York, pa Vehicle: 2002 hybrid 16gxt '03 Lifted TS	I originally looked at that tank when I built my system. I'm sure that it could be modified to work, but I thing that at that point you might as well go with something that is designed for the job. You'd have to put a different pump on as the stock one won't flow enough. Then add a hole or two depending on how the new pump was mounted to get water in and out (not just the fill point, which would work beautifully as it looks like it would be the highest point in the system).

02-19-2016, 12:51 PM	#218
wrxhard Scooby Specialist Member#: 108091 Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Fargo, ND Vehicle: 2002 WRX	I knew I recognized your user name when I looks at your "budget baller" build thread... HAH!!!

02-22-2016, 10:23 AM	#225
svynx Scooby Specialist Member#: 210371 Join Date: May 2009 Chapter/Region: MAIC Location: York, pa Vehicle: 2002 hybrid 16gxt '03 Lifted TS	I'll have to play around with the 14 to see how it fits. Even with the stock manifold, there isn't much room for the 13. It's close to the A/C lines. I'd really like to turn the compressor side 90 degrees and have the output in a vertical position. Would make it easier, and shorter, to route the I/C pipe to the passenger side, but that can't happen with the turbo I have. So, I'll keep the routing I have now the same. I do plan on purchasing an expansion tank, bolting that to the firewall, and using that to fill and service the system. I don't like how I have it now, and I think the expansion tank will look better.