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Old 06-13-2007, 11:42 PM   #126
jblaine
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Quote:
Originally Posted by siegelracing View Post
Peak power on gasoline "near" 11:1 AFR = 0.75 Lambda
Near is pretty vague

Peak power, with knock removed from the equation, is far from 11:1 on any 93 octane I've used.

Easily tested with 93 octane and a boost cap at 10psi
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Old 06-25-2007, 10:38 AM   #127
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Old 06-25-2007, 11:06 PM   #128
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Davenow View Post
denatured alk works 100***37; fine and is no worse for your car/system than methanol is.
You dont get the same effect that you would on meth, however the difference is pretty small and denatured will still yeild huge gains.
I ran 50/50 distilled water/denatured alk in my alk cars (and will be doing the same again in this one once I hook it up) and it was awesome. 4+ degrees of timing, 12.5-1 a/f and 23lbs of boost on the stock STI turbo.
no knock, ever.
Dave,

I like the last 2 sentances of this post. This is pretty much the same tune setup I am running on my stock block EJ205. I have been through UTEC, (on UTEC I was running on 25+lbs of boost.) and now am on OpenECU. My compression is still 140+ across all cylinders,(FWIW), and just went over 50K miles (30,000+ of it on water/meth). Yes you must take some fuel out to make the power and have the AFR's you want, and the AFR's you need to make power, granted, the AFR's for meth at 100% mabye below 6:1, but if you can tune, or know someone who can tune, they or you can make it right in the end. All I can say is I am a true believer of the capabilities of Water/Meth with the right tuner, and owner/driver. I hope I don't alienate myself from my own/and Dave's thread,

(FlameSuit ON)

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Old 07-01-2007, 04:16 PM   #129
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Default just got car tuned

i just tuned my car and my check engine flashes when im at full boost. i was told that its dectecting det. will a meth kit with just running 100 percent water help lower det without having to get the whole car retuned?
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Old 07-03-2007, 11:53 AM   #130
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At the risk of being completely ignored as some sort of heretic:

What about using alcohol and/or water injection to increase mpg? I have a Baja turbo that I intend to leave stock. I'd be interested in using a system like this to ALWAYS run A/F ratios at naturally-aspirated levels to improve mpg, especially when pulling our boat around (which makes low boost all the time). Is this even a viable consideration?
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Old 07-03-2007, 04:37 PM   #131
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Makes perfect sense... however you will need some type of engine management to lean out your A/F ratios and advance timing to take advantage of the W/A injection. I also highly recommend a TBE with a high-flow cat which helps a lot with cruising mileage and allows you to make the most of your new tune.
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Old 07-03-2007, 11:36 PM   #132
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Yeah, but the gas you take out is now replaced with alc/h20. If you were to go w/i it would make financial sense because water is cheaper than gas. Not sure about alky.
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Old 07-23-2007, 11:50 AM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bulwnkl View Post
At the risk of being completely ignored as some sort of heretic:

What about using alcohol and/or water injection to increase mpg? I have a Baja turbo that I intend to leave stock. I'd be interested in using a system like this to ALWAYS run A/F ratios at naturally-aspirated levels to improve mpg, especially when pulling our boat around (which makes low boost all the time). Is this even a viable consideration?
Get an E-85 tune if your going to spend money on met inj. it burns cleaner, and cooler. Oh yeah, CHEEPER!
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Old 07-23-2007, 12:07 PM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dsnuts02 View Post
Get an E-85 tune if your going to spend money on met inj. it burns cleaner, and cooler. Oh yeah, CHEEPER!
He said he wanted to increase gas mileage NOT drop it thru the floor....

Expect ~30***37; lower MPG using E85 even with a proper tune.
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Old 08-08-2007, 10:30 PM   #135
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Plus factor in how much you would have to invest in a kit and tune. It will take you quite awhile to make up the difference in gas money.
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Old 08-10-2007, 05:21 PM   #136
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Updated the original post on pg. 1. Added some octane info, and a octane calculator/converter.

DP
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Old 08-13-2007, 11:39 PM   #137
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i'm like way behind on all of this since i blew up my car, but its going back together nicely. a guy came into work and was showing me his roush truck asking me to start bringing this stuff in.... i took his info combined with this absolutly incredible write up and i am 100***37; sold... (damn 91 if that octane).

i just wanted to say thank you in a long sorta way.
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Old 09-04-2007, 03:58 PM   #138
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Ok, I've read all 6 pages and it's sorta starting to run together in my head (slow day at work).

Here's my plan (please advise). I've got an '02 wrx with intake, uppipe, txs 3.5" tbe with 4" dp, txs tmic, utec, and protune from P&L on 93. Since the car has now be pulled from the street, my plan is to switch to running 100oct all the time and since WI is allowed in my solo2 category, I think i'd like to add it. I'm liking the 50/50 information that I've read so far.

My question is, with running the stock block and stock TD04 turbo (per solo2 rules), by getting the car retuned and adding the 50/50 mix injection will it be safe to start running the injection point at like 2psi? Also, is it worth adding this if I'm going to be running such a high octane anyway? I will most likely add a switch to turn off the AI/WI and revert to my 93 map when pulling the car on and off the trailer as well as the rare times of street usage.


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Old 10-03-2007, 01:56 PM   #139
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Quote:
Originally Posted by siegelracing View Post
Stoich on gasoline = 1 Lambda = 14.65:1 AFR
Peak power on gasoline "near" 11:1 AFR = 0.75 Lambda
Stoich on methanol = 1 lambda = 6.47:1 (yes six and half)
Peak power on methanol = 0.8 lambda = 5.2:1 AFR (yes, vehicles that run straight methanol run in the FIVE to ONE Air to Fuel Ratio at WOT)
So adding 100% methanol to gasoline = moving from 11:1 AFR toward 5.2:1 AFR = getting richer.
what a useless bunch of information.

scott, what does your wideband "say" is the "afr" when you throw it on a 100% methanol-powered car idling at stoich fueling?

answer carefully.
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Old 10-03-2007, 02:10 PM   #140
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I want to, but I can't laugh, because I just wrapped my head around all of this a few months ago finally.

Then again, I don't tune other peoples' cars, so maybe I can laugh.
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Old 10-03-2007, 09:38 PM   #141
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dangle View Post
i just tuned my car and my check engine flashes when im at full boost. i was told that its dectecting det. will a meth kit with just running 100 percent water help lower det without having to get the whole car retuned?
First, who did the tuning?
Next, how is you car setup?
Last, using meth as a band-aid for a crappy tune will only cause more problems or damage. Get the tune fixed, then when you want to step up to more power and a more advanced tune, then go water/meth. Don't do it to try to fix a problem. Your car should be at it's best shape and tuning before you try to go to water/meth. Ultimately you still have to have someone tune for water/meth, and they have to know what they are doing. If they can't tune to just pump gas, then go somewhere else.

DP
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Old 10-03-2007, 10:42 PM   #142
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For those of you who have done a true back-to-back test of 100% water injection vs the other blends, what do you see with your air fuel readings? I'm only interested in the cooling agent of water and not interested in the alk or meth blends. As a direct comparison, if your car is tuned for a target 11.5:1 AFR with regular old 93 octane and you sprayed only water, would you see big differences in the AFR with your existing tune? Would even more unburned fuel exit the combustion chamber since the water (steam at this point I suppose) is absorbing and dispersing some of the heat? My goal is a more efficient burn and reducing EGTs along with detonation prevention. I just had my car on the dyno with a PDX email tune and I'm starting at 10.4:1 and jump quickly to 9.7-9.8:1 all the way to redline. I will be tuning the car in a week or two to something more in the low 11's:1 range and wouldn't mind adding water injection in the near future. Thanks in advance.

Wow, long post.
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Old 10-15-2007, 04:17 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ride5000
what a useless bunch of information.

scott, what does your wideband "say" is the "afr" when you throw it on a 100% methanol-powered car idling at stoich fueling?

answer carefully.
If it is set for gasoline equivalence then 1.0 lambda or 14.7 AFR
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Old 12-07-2007, 03:45 PM   #144
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I Have A 05 STI With The DDS3 Water/Methanol Injection System. And I noticed on the display Gage that The Flow Level That the Color Changed From Blue to Red? What does that mean
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Old 02-03-2008, 09:08 AM   #145
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[quote=ka mano;17100867]Water only vs. 50/50

Hi , i seem that the peak power had move to a bit higher rpm. is it because of the meth ? how to do it this way
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Old 02-07-2008, 12:37 PM   #146
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hey everyone im planing on running the SMC kit on my 07 sti. now is this really a good mod and safe to do? from what i have read it seems safe but just wanted to make sure. i plan on getting my tune next month with this kit so far mods that i have are...

Txs TBE
K&n intake
cobb APv2
fule pump
DW 750cc
Perrin EBCS
i also plan on adding a FMIC

any advice would be great
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Old 02-13-2008, 11:48 PM   #147
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hottwrx02 View Post
hey everyone im planing on running the SMC kit on my 07 sti. now is this really a good mod and safe to do? from what i have read it seems safe but just wanted to make sure. i plan on getting my tune next month with this kit so far mods that i have are...

Txs TBE
K&n intake
cobb APv2
fule pump
DW 750cc
Perrin EBCS
i also plan on adding a FMIC

any advice would be great

Water/Meth is a good mod with a high quality tune. If you are not sure of your tuner, or don't have access to tuning, I wouldn't do it. You need to have a good tune to run high boost, high timing, with just pump gas. With water/meth you can cause the same damage quicker if not tuned right. To rich can damage the engine via bore wash, and loss of water/meth without a failsafe, can cause a lean condition, quickly! Without proper tuning, you could just run around with a lean condition, due to improper fueling. Is the EBCS installed yet? If it isn't I recommend doing before your tune. Your boost curves will completely change when you put that on. If you tune, and then put on the EBCS it will skew all the boost values from you tune.
In the end pump gas or water/meth, it all revolves around how good your tuning is.

DP
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Old 02-27-2008, 04:32 AM   #148
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[quote=joekerk;20977465]
Quote:
Originally Posted by ka mano View Post
Water only vs. 50/50

Hi , i seem that the peak power had move to a bit higher rpm. is it because of the meth ? how to do it this way

I find this perplexing as well. Max TQ has moved approk 2k higher for the 2nd curve. I would hope that it was possible to incorporate the best parts of both graphs with proper tuning.

Is it possible that too much 50/50 is being injected in the lower RPM areas? It looks like about 50 TQ are being lost at about 4200 RPM.

Buck
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Old 02-27-2008, 06:28 AM   #149
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Dose anyone have any idea if it ok to put the nozzle in front of a bend in the boost tube. From what I undersand its best to have it 6-8 inches away from the TP and my set up and a bend right before it enters the TB. Any help or insite would on this would be great
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Old 02-27-2008, 06:12 PM   #150
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I would suppose that putting it before a 90 deg bend or greater radius that it could mess up atomization a little due to decreased air velocity caused by the bend. Although I suppose it could also increase turbulence, and maybe be good for atomization? I am not sure. Anyone else want to chime in on this. I use a TMIC, so it is right before the TB. I have also heard 6-8 inches if possible, but I suppose only a few inches before the TB wouldn't hurt. Is there a reason you physically can't put it 6-8" from the TB or closer?

DP
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