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Old 09-10-2003, 07:57 PM   #51
Tobey
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i think the economy is the big deciding factor. dealers are giving cars away or doing next to 0% financing, this makes the used car market is HUGE right now, also people aren't going to buy used and pay 7% when they can buy new and get 0.9%, which means no one is getting $$ out of their trade-ins.

like someone else said, these aren't meant to be everyday, volume type cars like an accord. with the re-birth of the japanese "sports car" (rx-8, 350z, evo, sti) i think manufacturers are trying to see where these types of cars fit into their normal lineup, i would expect to see much less of these cars next year.

everyone wants them, but 30+k is a lot of cake for a ride to work for many people, especially since many of them aren't working.

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Old 09-10-2003, 08:13 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally posted by Oldnslow
Jang wrote"
"As an owner I have zero complaints other than that I often feel a little silly/immature/youthful when I drive the car amongst my serious/mature/OLDNSLOW friends...."

Listen, Jang, I may be OLDNSLOW, but I take offense when you call me "serious and mature"......
LOL

Old N'Slow = Foot to the floor

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Old 09-10-2003, 08:23 PM   #53
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Quote:
Originally posted by WRSport


What do you base this on?

I just randomly looked at various dealers inventory and there sure are a lot of STI's available.

Chris
Based on my actually talking with sales managers and F&I managers directly along the NE corridor.

Yes there are STi's on dealer lots, seven here 1 or two there, that does not equate to "a lot". Further they are new allocation units.

A lot would be 20, 40 or 60 units at one dealer sitting for 60-120 days such as at your local Ford, GM or Mitsu dealer. There is a reason why those marques need to offer discounts, money back plans, revbates and inventory reduction sales. Dealers as a whole are having no problem moving STi's as they have in fact too few to meet real & actual buyer demand.
Of course there are a few exceptions in historically econimcally depressed areas but those folks would only receive one or two units per allocation at best.

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Old 09-10-2003, 10:20 PM   #54
Neil Wallerstein
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Man I don't know where you live but I only found 3 within 250 mile radius from me. None of them were white (the color I want). I doubt that any of them will sell for under MSRP.


Quote:
Originally posted by WRSport


What do you base this on?

I just randomly looked at various dealers inventory and there sure are a lot of STI's available.

Chris
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Old 09-11-2003, 12:12 AM   #55
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I work at a dealership and stis sell like hotcakes! Alot of people come in who would be better off in a bimmer "ask stupid questions " why doesnt it have leather? why does it ride so hard? Why do the calibers have to be gold?

A sti is only for a person who wants performance " doesnt care about little luxury items / rattles/ ride / looks " Kind of like the lotus elise that thing is harsh/noisey and you will get a back ache after riding in it for 20 minutes.

The sti that is sold in america should be worth about 40,000$$ Just add up all the items that are in this car compared to a stock wrx .............That suretrac limited slip $$
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Old 09-11-2003, 01:12 AM   #56
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What he said ^^ is what _every_ dealer I've spoken with has said.

BTW, just because the Subaru.com website reports a dealer has recived x# of units does not mean they are available. Most STi's are sold before they even arrive at the dealers lot. Further the few that are sitting on lots unsold aren't sitting for much more than a NY minute.

WRXMaster - The folks that ask about leather seats, sunroofs and other weight adding crap really ought to be looking at the BMW 3301 'Performance' or the G35 Coupe/Sedan 6MT (which costs the same as an STi).

Some folks just don't know...

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Old 09-11-2003, 01:22 AM   #57
z
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The 2 dealers nearest me have zero (000000000000000000000) in stock.
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Old 09-11-2003, 01:41 AM   #58
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I disagree strongly that squeaks and rattles are part of the STi experience. That is build quality. The parts don't fit. Road / tyre noise is along for the ride. Has anyone else looked under the carpet?
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Old 09-11-2003, 03:00 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally posted by Web Foot STi
I disagree strongly that squeaks and rattles are part of the STi experience. That is build quality. The parts don't fit. Road / tyre noise is along for the ride. Has anyone else looked under the carpet?
The only squeak/rattle I have comes from the buckle on the passneger seat when riding over less than perfectly smooth road. It rubs against the plastic cover for the B-Pillar causing a slight squeak. Solution, buckle the passenger seat belt and leave it as such.

Otherwise my car is as solidly built as my '04 Honda Pilot and every other Subaru I've ever owned. I don't undertsand where these people are coming from with the squeak/rattle complaints.
hell my '93 Legacy has 187K _hard_ miles and its still solid with not a rattle or squeak. And that car was built in the US.

As for under the carpet, yes I pulled mine and there's nothign but sheetmetal as expected. The car has no sound proofing insulation. The carpetng it self is very thing and not sound absorbing at all. I like that. When driving over road with gravel it sounds like your making popcorn.

This car is great fun.
And that it costs only $32K is even better!

As I've always said its not for everyone. If folks need absolute silence like driving in a vacuum and/or a tuned stereo with perfect speaker placement, then buy a Lexus. They have plenty of really quiet models with thick carpeting, sound proofing and EZ to operate automatic transmissions to choose from.

I bet some of these folks would go to the a store then ask look at cats and wonder why they don't bark or if they are good 'protectors'. If you want a luxury car by a Lexus. If you want a fast car with a stereo, sunroof & leather seats by a BMW. If you want a fuel mising car with a rear set pass through for times when you visit Ikea buy a '05 Prius or a Civic Hybrid.

When you want a factory production race car with a warranty and DOT approved race tires, buy an STi! Oh, and if you want glove tight Recaro 'racing' seats and like to rev your engine a lot but are not into actually being quick then get an EVO or a kart. :P

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Old 09-11-2003, 07:22 AM   #60
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Bad, Janq! Once again, you are the purveyor of falsehoods.

Quote:
and like to rev your engine a lot but are not into actually being quick then get an EVO


had to do it!
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Old 09-11-2003, 09:24 AM   #61
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Well, I can tell you that I was in the UK up until 99, and I never came across as many STI as I do over here, despite them only being around for a few months.

I would not worry about the STI being dropped. It's a show case of technology, a basis for rally homologation, and even if they sell half as many as first thought, about 1,500, that's still more than they sell in the UK, the second biggest Impreza market in the world.

Also, don't forget Subaru shares engines, interiors, etc. with other models, so I bet their still making money on them regardless of sales volume.

My $0.02.
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Old 09-11-2003, 09:31 AM   #62
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Going back a page or so - I don't understand why everyone keeps saying that their other options are Z06s or M3s. I can barely stand going two days without driving my STi. Going 4-8 months every year without driving it would be torture. I love winter. I love driving on snow. And I love taking the long way home after a day of skiing. How does the Z06 or M3 even come close?

The way I see it, I had three options: STi, EVO, and S4. 'Nuff said.
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Old 09-11-2003, 12:25 PM   #63
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Quote:
Originally posted by MitSubEd
Bad, Janq! Once again, you are the purveyor of falsehoods.


had to do it!


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Old 09-11-2003, 12:26 PM   #64
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Quote:
Originally posted by VVVV
Going back a page or so - I don't understand why everyone keeps saying that their other options are Z06s or M3s. I can barely stand going two days without driving my STi. Going 4-8 months every year without driving it would be torture. I love winter. I love driving on snow. And I love taking the long way home after a day of skiing. How does the Z06 or M3 even come close?

The way I see it, I had three options: STi, EVO, and S4. 'Nuff said.
The new/current Gen S4 is a pig.
The old/previous Gen is a classic.

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Old 09-11-2003, 12:47 PM   #65
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I'll chime in on the vette-sti debate. I love both cars, I have driven a 99 hardtop. It was an incredible car, BUT where I live jersey can get some really nasty winters, and I have family in upstate ny and pa. I only have enough money for one car so the vette was removed from the list. I never thought soa would bring over a sti so I ordered my wrx with all the dealer sti parts. Now the sti is here and in the next year my very low milage wrx is for sale. Might as well take care of all the reckless uses of money while I'm young and have no real obligations (wife,kid).
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Old 09-11-2003, 01:06 PM   #66
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Quote:
Originally posted by jesse370
I'll chime in on the vette-sti debate. I love both cars, I have driven a 99 hardtop. It was an incredible car, BUT where I live jersey can get some really nasty winters, and I have family in upstate ny and pa. I only have enough money for one car so the vette was removed from the list. I never thought soa would bring over a sti so I ordered my wrx with all the dealer sti parts. Now the sti is here and in the next year my very low milage wrx is for sale. Might as well take care of all the reckless uses of money while I'm young and have no real obligations (wife,kid).
An STi will run a regulaar Vette all day.
The real comparison is STi to Z06, with the Z06 edging out the STi in acceleration & top end and just ahead in handling.

I personally know two folks who drive their Vettes 4 seasons (Z51 & Z06) which is passable during mild winters. But both these folks maintain beater 4WD SUV's for snow & Home Depot runs. The biggest thing to me is the interior is awful and a bit claustrophobic for my tastes. I feel like I'm riding in a prophylactic. Also, my STi can & has fit four people for short rides where as the Vette only fits one.
Although I had a boss & roommate 12 years ago who gave me a ride in his Vette after my car broke down in the middle of the night. He had his GF literally ride in the _back luggage area_! She fold herself at the waist and laid back there on her side facing away from us. She jumped back there like it was normal ride in such a manner and stayed like that all the way from Rockville to Darnestown, MD (30 miles!). To this day when I think of it I bust out laughing.

The Z06 is without a doubt a nice machine but for the money I feel the STi presents the best value overall. Just my humble opinion of course.

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Old 09-11-2003, 01:15 PM   #67
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Quote:
Originally posted by zavigm
The 2 dealers nearest me have zero (000000000000000000000) in stock.
I live near San Francisco and there are 20 dealers within 103 miles. I only checked inventory of the ones within 80 miles and got 25 on hand. Also, the dealer that had 7 in stock on Sunday now only has 5. I guess they are still selling. I expected these cars to be snapped up due to there limited numbers. Like someone mentioned earlier, the economy has affected sales.

All this car shopping started with my friend letting me test drive his SMG M3. After driving the car, I was dead set on getting one. My friend paid $65K OTD with some markup which is something I can't imagine paying for a depreciating asset. I started looking at used ones and still they're asking about $42K+. So back to the lower cost cars like the Evo, STi and 350Z.
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Old 09-11-2003, 02:24 PM   #68
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Quote:
Originally posted by GSXR


I live near San Francisco and there are 20 dealers within 103 miles. I only checked inventory of the ones within 80 miles and got 25 on hand. Also, the dealer that had 7 in stock on Sunday now only has 5. I guess they are still selling. I expected these cars to be snapped up due to there limited numbers. Like someone mentioned earlier, the economy has affected sales.

All this car shopping started with my friend letting me test drive his SMG M3. After driving the car, I was dead set on getting one. My friend paid $65K OTD with some markup which is something I can't imagine paying for a depreciating asset. I started looking at used ones and still they're asking about $42K+. So back to the lower cost cars like the Evo, STi and 350Z.
$mart Man!

My wife & I refuse to pay the often quoted as mandatory "Lot Premium" to builders/developers when having bought our homes (pur profit!) and thats on a traditionally appreciating value purchase. It makes zero sense or cetns to pay a premium against a deprectiating item such as a car. Its a mode of transporation, not an 'investment'. You instincts are excellent.

Quick math of your STi numbers show there are only .8 STi's on average available per dealer (!). Your market is a major one/huge like my own metropolitan area (DC/MD/Northern VA).

The STi is moving like hot cakes and supply is drying up fast...

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Old 09-11-2003, 02:46 PM   #69
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I think about it this way: All those people who were "in the know" about the sti either bought them right away when they arrived at the dealer, or were on the waiting list and got them right away.

Now I think subaru is probably going to go through a slow stage where people who didn't necessarily know about it are going to start realizing what it is and taking a closer look and buying then.

Regardless of sales, they're most likely going to keep it around because it's an image car. Just look at all the subaru ads with lance armstrong, they are trying their hardest to change their image from granola to performance. If subaru was voltron, the sti would be the head.

Look at GM...as far as I know, and from what I learned when I interned there, they make no profit on the vette. They make their profits from trucks and SUV's. But they keep the corvette around because it's their image car. It's the GM supermodel walking down the runway in lingerie that gets everybody to go buy GM tube socks.

The STi and the EVO need to have the wings and bodywork. It's what sets them apart from things like BMW's and vettes and stuff like that. Granted, some might think it sets them apart in a bad way, but overall it allows them to play in their own league of high powered awd turbo cars that are backed up by real world rally racing heritage.

Why do so many nasioc people compare them to the vette? I have such a hard time imagining anyone cross-shopping between the two cars. It just seems like a completely different crowd to me. Granted, there are exceptions. I'll tell you the biggest problem I see with corvettes: If you have one, you are instantly labeled as a "corvette guy", just the same way you are labeled a "mustang guy" or a "camaro guy". GM and Ford try to sell this "heritage" more than they try to sell the actual performance...that's the problem. I'd prefer to have a car that when you tell someone you have it, they don't immediately make assumptions about you based on it. The STi isn't that well known and that makes it great.
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Old 09-11-2003, 03:00 PM   #70
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Quote:
Originally posted by Janq


An STi will run a regulaar Vette all day.
The real comparison is STi to Z06, with the Z06 edging out the STi in acceleration & top end and just ahead in handling.

- Janq
On dry roads, an stock STi will stay pretty close with a stock C5 Vette (MN6 - six speed) from about 0-80. After that, turn out the lights, the party's over.
This is personal experience.

Since someone asked, the reason I bring the comparison is that the STi is getting into the price range of a minty used C5 coupe. Maybe someone out there who's always had souped up econo-cars as their benchmark doesn't realize that - and doesn't need the back seat and off-road/winter capabilities.

Of course, the best thing is to have both!
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Old 09-11-2003, 03:05 PM   #71
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Oh ya...
I almost bought a 02 Z06 with 6k miles... for $36.5k... in the same
time Socal Subaru dealers are asking $36k for their STis...
(and these dealers have the balls to tell me that at $36k the STis
are REAL bargains.... )


Quote:
Originally posted by WRC-Go

Since someone asked, the reason I bring the comparison is that the STi is getting into the price range of a minty used C5 coupe.
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Old 09-11-2003, 03:21 PM   #72
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Yep, the local dealer has an STi with foglights and a radio added that he's asking 36 for.
Check this out:

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=645950

Plenty more like this out there, and you can be in brand new Z for mid-40's. Dealers are trying to clear 'em out to make room for C6.
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Old 09-11-2003, 03:44 PM   #73
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Well, I went ahead and played the "go to Subaru.com and look up dealer inventories for Denver" game. Of the 6 greater Denver dealers, I only found 2 STIs.

Denver is a great place for an AWD demon like the STI , so it's demand might be higher here than in other parts of the country.

Every local Mitsu dealership has at least 7 EVOs on the lot. The one by my work has 10. I imagine STI wait lists are still being worked off here and we'll see more on lots as time goes by.
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Old 09-11-2003, 04:22 PM   #74
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I don't think it is unreasonable to be able to test drive something as expensive as a car.

There is no reason the dealer cannot provide a demonstration car and then sell it as a used car at the end of the year. The main reason dealers don't do this anymore is because they don't want to lose the money selling the car as "used". Instead, they would rather let people drive any car on the lot (like the "no-hassle" dealers usually do) to keep the mileage due to test drives under a hundred miles or so per car. That way, they can sell *all* the cars as "new."

The local dealer here had a demo WRX, which they sold as "used" with about 3000 miles of test drives on it! Anybody that knows anything about cars wouldn't think about buying it, but one customer didn't have a problem with it....for the right price, of course...
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Old 09-11-2003, 05:39 PM   #75
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Quote:
Originally posted by Route218
....If subaru was voltron, the sti would be the head....
Funny...
Except everybody knows Subaru's are 'Autobots', while Mitsu's are 'Decepticons'.

Besides, you should give Wu Tang Clan their props for borrowing that line from their first album.

- Janq

"Transformers, more than meets the eye!"
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