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Old 08-29-2003, 08:06 AM   #1
JDM nut
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Arrow quicker ratio steering rack for STi? What are the option?

I know I need help, it is 4:52 in the morning and I am thinking about the steering rack. Sigh....what can I do, I can't sleep , might as well post.

I put 1600 miles on my STi so far, the only thing I don't like about it is the rather slow steering ratio. To me, the STi steering ratio feels like an Accord . Please don't flame, I know it already have a quicker ratio rack compare to the regular WRX. I am just telling it the way I feel it. (yes all you EVO lover, I know you guys have a killer rack, you don't have to remind me.)

From what I remember, the USDM STi have a 15:1 ratio rack. I believe I read somewhere one of the JDM STi (type RA .... spec C .... S202......blah blah.....can't remember which one, there are too many of them ) have a 13:1 rack. So would that be a direct swap? Sorry I don't know much about steering rack, if I am asking a really stupid question, please be gentle and tell me.

Also is there any aftermarket company out there make a quicker ratio rack for the STi?

And no I don't want to get a smaller diameter steering wheel, I like the stock one just fine.

Thanks ahead

NUT
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Old 08-29-2003, 08:36 AM   #2
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We make a 12.5:1 rack and a 10:1 rack. Do a search for "Rev-Lab Q-Rack" or R2 rack. Send me an e-mail if you are interested.

Arthur
[email protected]
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Old 08-29-2003, 08:59 AM   #3
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Have to get an aftermarket rack from rev-lab or elsewhere. The 13:1 rack is for RHD cars.
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Old 08-29-2003, 09:15 AM   #4
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Lightbulb

Here's another alternative:

http://www.fourstarmotorsports.com/C...ponents_83.htm

You need to do the math but the std. EVO is 2.1 lock to lock and the std. STi is 2.6-2.7 I beleive.

-Mike.
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Old 08-29-2003, 02:09 PM   #5
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Hey Mike, that's the same rack he already has. 4star however does sell the gears to turn your current rack into a 12:1 (about 2 turns lock to lock). They are a little off on the 2.25 turns.
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Old 08-29-2003, 02:35 PM   #6
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Have a Nice Day?

Ahhh... got it Phil.

I thought that looked an awful lot like a stock FHI steering rack.

-Mike.
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Old 08-29-2003, 02:48 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by dwx
Hey Mike, that's the same rack he already has. 4star however does sell the gears to turn your current rack into a 12:1 (about 2 turns lock to lock). They are a little off on the 2.25 turns.
Do you have a link to 4star? Please
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Old 08-29-2003, 03:29 PM   #8
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www.fourstarmotorsports.com, Frank and Dan Sprongl.
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Old 08-29-2003, 06:49 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Boeleni
We make a 12.5:1 rack and a 10:1 rack.
I thought the web site said 12.5 : 1 and 11 :1 ?

It suggests that the faster rack is too dangerous for street use. Why is this? Is it really *that* twitchy?
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Old 08-29-2003, 08:16 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by STI_FFY
It suggests that the faster rack is too dangerous for street use. Why is this? Is it really *that* twitchy?
Yeah. While a really quick rack may feel good when you are really winging around corners, it demands nearly 100% concentration at all times, something even the best of drivers don't do when commuting or driving long miles.

To be honest, I prefered the 15:1 rack over the 13:1 - the quicker rack is a bit quicker, but needed more steering correction in corners because of the ease of going to far/not far enough. And even the 15:1 can be a bit of a pain in regular driving, easily making a car with the 13:1 rack into a real weekend-only driver for me.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
www.apexjapan.com
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Old 08-29-2003, 08:43 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by shirokuma


Yeah. While a really quick rack may feel good when you are really winging around corners, it demands nearly 100% concentration at all times, something even the best of drivers don't do when commuting or driving long miles.
Maybe someday we'll have steer by wire (as well as throttle), complete with force feedback, and you can program any desired ratio - even progressive.
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Old 08-29-2003, 08:49 PM   #12
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Ive been thinking about this for a while.

What about a variable assist add on. You could have a custom pressure line with a "waste gate" returning fluid back to the pump. You could adjust it to get the perfect feeling for the situation, and easily go back to full assist on the street!

Maybe I should patent it
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Old 08-29-2003, 09:57 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally posted by STI_FFY


I thought the web site said 12.5 : 1 and 11 :1 ?

It suggests that the faster rack is too dangerous for street use. Why is this? Is it really *that* twitchy?

I did the calculations once before but 11:1 is something like 1 turn lock to lock... So basically think of turning the wheel half a turn in either direction and being full lock... You don't want that. The real quick racks I imagine are real useful in rally, who these were made for originally. If you need to pendulum turn it takes alot less effort with a rack that quick than having to turn the wheel a bunch in either direction. With the car already sliding the wheels being full lock isn't exactly a problem. You could get used to it on the street but in an emergency situation you'd probably end up spinning the car with it. That being said I'd really love to put a 12.5:1 rack in my WRX.
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Old 08-30-2003, 01:46 AM   #14
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Thank you all for the valuable infos and advice.

For me, the stock 15:1 rack is definitely a bit too slow. My last daily driver was a R34 GTR, I love the steering ratio on that car. I believe it was 2.5 turns lock to lock. It felt great for me driving it daily to work and on long trip.

I understand how it could be a hand full if the ratio is too quick, sounds like the 12.5 : 1 would be a good one.

Arthur......I will send you an email shortly to get more detail on it. Thanks.

NUT
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Old 08-30-2003, 05:39 PM   #15
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I just sent Four Star an email requesting more info.

What's the stock STi rack worth to someone with a WRX?

Last edited by Blue04Sti; 08-30-2003 at 05:48 PM.
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Old 08-30-2003, 05:43 PM   #16
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Four Star is not honest, they screwed me royally. Be careful.
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Old 08-30-2003, 05:49 PM   #17
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What did they do? Thanks for the heads up.
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Old 08-30-2003, 06:54 PM   #18
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I've gotten a few things from them at this point (including a six-speed transmission) and never had a problem with them. Most of the vendors on here that sell sti engines/trannies generally get them from 4star.
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Old 08-30-2003, 07:13 PM   #19
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He told me parts I ordered were from a Ver. 6, they were Ver. 4. He said they had under 20 kilometers on them, "brand new", they look like they have over 60,000 kilometers. Said parts were "mint", everything was scratched and damaged. Told me front brakes would be included, not included. Said I was getting Ver. 6 wing, nope Ver. 4 wing (same as RS), gave me different axles than what was said. Gave me regular intercooler instead of STi intercooler. And packed my fragile parts and body panels by throwing them in a huge crate with barely any padding or wrapping. He has yet to respond to my emails and getting through by phone is pretty tough. And it took 7-8 months to finally get the parts from time of order!!!!! I thought this place was very legit and reputable, apparently not so. Deal with them at your own risk.

And as far as vendors here having them as a source, I know and I have heard of the horrors they have gone through from a couple of owners of the businesses. Some even mentioned a huge lawsuit. If four star does decide to refund your money, then be prepared to wait a long long time.

I have also heard that their source for parts is very bad. So you think you're getting something new, but you're probably not. I should have known better when he told me he couldn't send me pics. I mean come on, how is he telling me he has a brand new Ver. 6(MY00) STi when it's 2003 already. Hey, if you want to buy something from Frank go ahead, but be prepared to be bent over.
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Old 08-30-2003, 10:15 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally posted by JDM nut
For me, the stock 15:1 rack is definitely a bit too slow. My last daily driver was a R34 GTR, I love the steering ratio on that car. I believe it was 2.5 turns lock to lock. It felt great for me driving it daily to work and on long trip.
I'm not quite sure if the root problem here is steering ratio, or simply the car's reaction to turn-in with the current, slightly soft USDM setup. I drove two different R34 GT-R's (Nur spec, M-spec II) back to back against an S202, and quickness of steering ratio is not something I noticed much in the R34's. It's nothing I felt major enough to write about, at least. When being put through the paces, the S202 felt quicker - but that was likely due to the more aggressive suspension setup than the steering ratio.

I think what I'm getting at is that a lot of people are talking steering ratio's as if it's the only thing separating the STi from the Evo, and that's not true. There's a lot more to it than that, and a 13:1 ratio in the STi will not make it feel like a Evo. A lot of work was put into the Evo's steering, and the ratio is only a portion of that, there's a lot of work around it that greatly contributes to it. AnotherB4 commented already that it's the little bit of waffle that may be putting some of you off, and that's something that was intentionally compromised for NVH reasons. It's easy (and cheap) enough to switch out the bushings and links in the front end and get quite a bit better feel.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
www.apexjapan.com
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Old 08-30-2003, 10:38 PM   #21
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What I'm looking for is better feel - the only problem I have with the STi's steering is it's numbness. It sounds like the first step would be to replace the bushings and links and take it from there.

I'll do a search on bushings and links - Thanks
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Old 09-02-2003, 08:23 PM   #22
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Default Revlab 12.5:1 quickrack: wonderful

I installed the Revlab 12.5:1 quickrack on my 02 WRX stage 2 and I love it. I disagree with Paul Hansen that 12.5:1 requires constant attention and maker it a weekend car. It took about half a day to adapt to the quicker steering. AFter adapting, I never overturn then have to correct. I just dial in the precise amount of steering I want. My daily commute is on interstates and major city arteries, and on the weekends I drive in the Rockies. It is very comfortable in both settings, and of course it is splendid in the twisties. I never feel like a lapse of concentration will send me off the road or change lanes. From 15:1 to 12.5:1 is about 17% change, so a 6 inch steering input with 15:1 becomes 5 inch with 12.5 to 1. This isn't going to send you off the road unless you are really slow to adapt to the new ratio!

I can't say how an 11:1 would be... probably I would like it but a bit radical for some.

Superg
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Old 09-02-2003, 11:26 PM   #23
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Basically we provide 2 options for the 2002 and up body shell. One of them results in 1 and 1/4 turns from center to lock. The quicker ratio gets you just a hair over 1 turn from lock to lock. The slower of the 2 ratios is very streetable. I would argue that even the quicker ratio wouldn't be a huge problem and we do have a couple of guys running that setup without issues. Getting a smaller steering wheel greatly amplifies the effect of the rack, and although I have yet to drive an evo, when I read all the reviews about the evo's steering, I feel that I can experience what reviewers are talking about when I take my Subaru for a spin. The quicker ratio makes the steering feel a touch "heavier" which does alot for tactile feedback. The directness of the inputs allows me to throw the rear end out with a quick flick and blip.

I wish there was a way for me to provide a test drive in a car with our rack, if anybody has a suggestion I'm all ears.

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Old 09-03-2003, 07:13 AM   #24
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Quote:
From what I remember, the USDM STi have a 15:1 ratio rack. I believe I read somewhere one of the JDM STi (type RA .... spec C .... S202......blah blah.....can't remember which one, there are too many of them ) have a 13:1 rack. So would that be a direct swap?
No....the JDM imprezas are right hand drive and have the steering knuckle on the worng side of the rack for USDM use
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Old 09-09-2003, 12:59 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally posted by shirokuma
I'm not quite sure if the root problem here is steering ratio, or simply the car's reaction to turn-in with the current, slightly soft USDM setup. I drove two different R34 GT-R's (Nur spec, M-spec II) back to back against an S202, and quickness of steering ratio is not something I noticed much in the R34's. It's nothing I felt major enough to write about, at least. When being put through the paces, the S202 felt quicker - but that was likely due to the more aggressive suspension setup than the steering ratio.

I think what I'm getting at is that a lot of people are talking steering ratio's as if it's the only thing separating the STi from the Evo, and that's not true. There's a lot more to it than that, and a 13:1 ratio in the STi will not make it feel like a Evo. A lot of work was put into the Evo's steering, and the ratio is only a portion of that, there's a lot of work around it that greatly contributes to it. AnotherB4 commented already that it's the little bit of waffle that may be putting some of you off, and that's something that was intentionally compromised for NVH reasons. It's easy (and cheap) enough to switch out the bushings and links in the front end and get quite a bit better feel.

Cheers,

Paul Hansen
www.apexjapan.com
Hi Paul,

Sorry for the late response.

Doesn't the S202 have the 13:1 steering ratio? Anyway, I don't know too much about cars, I just know even though the USDM WRX STi feels lighter, but the R34 GTR feels more direct and have quicker turn-in.

Now that I have driven another 1400 miles in the STi, the steering doesn't feel as slow anymore, maybe I got used to it?

I will listen to your advice and upgrade the suspension first before I consider changing the steering rack.

Superg...........thanks for the input.

Boeleni..........thanks for the details. You will probably hear from me in the future.

DonA..........thats what I thought. Thanks for confirming it.

ADDICT
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