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Brakes & Suspension Forum sponsored by The Tire Rack |
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08-29-2003, 08:06 AM | #1 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 34529
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: So.Cal.
Vehicle:04' WRX STi White/Silver |
quicker ratio steering rack for STi? What are the option?
I know I need help, it is 4:52 in the morning and I am thinking about the steering rack. Sigh....what can I do, I can't sleep , might as well post.
I put 1600 miles on my STi so far, the only thing I don't like about it is the rather slow steering ratio. To me, the STi steering ratio feels like an Accord . Please don't flame, I know it already have a quicker ratio rack compare to the regular WRX. I am just telling it the way I feel it. (yes all you EVO lover, I know you guys have a killer rack, you don't have to remind me.) From what I remember, the USDM STi have a 15:1 ratio rack. I believe I read somewhere one of the JDM STi (type RA .... spec C .... S202......blah blah.....can't remember which one, there are too many of them ) have a 13:1 rack. So would that be a direct swap? Sorry I don't know much about steering rack, if I am asking a really stupid question, please be gentle and tell me. Also is there any aftermarket company out there make a quicker ratio rack for the STi? And no I don't want to get a smaller diameter steering wheel, I like the stock one just fine. Thanks ahead NUT
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08-29-2003, 08:36 AM | #2 |
Top Scoob 003
Member#: 1812
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Vehicle:1999 Impreza Try-R Satin Black |
We make a 12.5:1 rack and a 10:1 rack. Do a search for "Rev-Lab Q-Rack" or R2 rack. Send me an e-mail if you are interested.
Arthur [email protected] |
08-29-2003, 08:59 AM | #3 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 8343
Join Date: Jul 2001
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: Atlanta, GA
Vehicle:2005 2012 Jeep 2013 DGM BRZ |
Have to get an aftermarket rack from rev-lab or elsewhere. The 13:1 rack is for RHD cars.
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08-29-2003, 09:15 AM | #4 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 3
Join Date: Jun 1999
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Alfretter Geeoja
Vehicle:2012 Geeteeeye and 71' VW Gulf Beetle |
Here's another alternative:
http://www.fourstarmotorsports.com/C...ponents_83.htm You need to do the math but the std. EVO is 2.1 lock to lock and the std. STi is 2.6-2.7 I beleive. -Mike. |
08-29-2003, 02:09 PM | #5 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 8343
Join Date: Jul 2001
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: Atlanta, GA
Vehicle:2005 2012 Jeep 2013 DGM BRZ |
Hey Mike, that's the same rack he already has. 4star however does sell the gears to turn your current rack into a 12:1 (about 2 turns lock to lock). They are a little off on the 2.25 turns.
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08-29-2003, 02:35 PM | #6 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 3
Join Date: Jun 1999
Chapter/Region:
South East
Location: Alfretter Geeoja
Vehicle:2012 Geeteeeye and 71' VW Gulf Beetle |
Ahhh... got it Phil.
I thought that looked an awful lot like a stock FHI steering rack. -Mike. |
08-29-2003, 02:48 PM | #7 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 40519
Join Date: Jul 2003
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Link
Quote:
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08-29-2003, 03:29 PM | #8 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 8343
Join Date: Jul 2001
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: Atlanta, GA
Vehicle:2005 2012 Jeep 2013 DGM BRZ |
www.fourstarmotorsports.com, Frank and Dan Sprongl.
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08-29-2003, 06:49 PM | #9 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 37519
Join Date: May 2003
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: New Market MD
Vehicle:2004 STi JBP/Gold Helix DP, SMC, Cobb AP |
Quote:
It suggests that the faster rack is too dangerous for street use. Why is this? Is it really *that* twitchy? |
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08-29-2003, 08:16 PM | #10 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 5489
Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: The Empire of Seattle
Vehicle:2013 FR-S AVO Orange |
Quote:
To be honest, I prefered the 15:1 rack over the 13:1 - the quicker rack is a bit quicker, but needed more steering correction in corners because of the ease of going to far/not far enough. And even the 15:1 can be a bit of a pain in regular driving, easily making a car with the 13:1 rack into a real weekend-only driver for me. Cheers, Paul Hansen www.apexjapan.com |
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08-29-2003, 08:43 PM | #11 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 37519
Join Date: May 2003
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
Location: New Market MD
Vehicle:2004 STi JBP/Gold Helix DP, SMC, Cobb AP |
Quote:
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08-29-2003, 08:49 PM | #12 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 15543
Join Date: Feb 2002
Vehicle:555 Having a Subaru shop means too many cars |
Ive been thinking about this for a while.
What about a variable assist add on. You could have a custom pressure line with a "waste gate" returning fluid back to the pump. You could adjust it to get the perfect feeling for the situation, and easily go back to full assist on the street! Maybe I should patent it |
08-29-2003, 09:57 PM | #13 | |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 8343
Join Date: Jul 2001
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: Atlanta, GA
Vehicle:2005 2012 Jeep 2013 DGM BRZ |
Quote:
I did the calculations once before but 11:1 is something like 1 turn lock to lock... So basically think of turning the wheel half a turn in either direction and being full lock... You don't want that. The real quick racks I imagine are real useful in rally, who these were made for originally. If you need to pendulum turn it takes alot less effort with a rack that quick than having to turn the wheel a bunch in either direction. With the car already sliding the wheels being full lock isn't exactly a problem. You could get used to it on the street but in an emergency situation you'd probably end up spinning the car with it. That being said I'd really love to put a 12.5:1 rack in my WRX. |
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08-30-2003, 01:46 AM | #14 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 34529
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: So.Cal.
Vehicle:04' WRX STi White/Silver |
Thank you all for the valuable infos and advice.
For me, the stock 15:1 rack is definitely a bit too slow. My last daily driver was a R34 GTR, I love the steering ratio on that car. I believe it was 2.5 turns lock to lock. It felt great for me driving it daily to work and on long trip. I understand how it could be a hand full if the ratio is too quick, sounds like the 12.5 : 1 would be a good one. Arthur......I will send you an email shortly to get more detail on it. Thanks. NUT |
08-30-2003, 05:39 PM | #15 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 42495
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Orlando
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I just sent Four Star an email requesting more info.
What's the stock STi rack worth to someone with a WRX? Last edited by Blue04Sti; 08-30-2003 at 05:48 PM. |
08-30-2003, 05:43 PM | #16 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 1581
Join Date: Jun 2000
Chapter/Region:
Tri-State
Location: yonkers, ny
Vehicle:MY00 RS/STi7 MY01 RS Both Silverthorne |
Four Star is not honest, they screwed me royally. Be careful.
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08-30-2003, 05:49 PM | #17 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 42495
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Orlando
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What did they do? Thanks for the heads up.
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08-30-2003, 06:54 PM | #18 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 8343
Join Date: Jul 2001
Chapter/Region:
MWSOC
Location: Atlanta, GA
Vehicle:2005 2012 Jeep 2013 DGM BRZ |
I've gotten a few things from them at this point (including a six-speed transmission) and never had a problem with them. Most of the vendors on here that sell sti engines/trannies generally get them from 4star.
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08-30-2003, 07:13 PM | #19 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 1581
Join Date: Jun 2000
Chapter/Region:
Tri-State
Location: yonkers, ny
Vehicle:MY00 RS/STi7 MY01 RS Both Silverthorne |
He told me parts I ordered were from a Ver. 6, they were Ver. 4. He said they had under 20 kilometers on them, "brand new", they look like they have over 60,000 kilometers. Said parts were "mint", everything was scratched and damaged. Told me front brakes would be included, not included. Said I was getting Ver. 6 wing, nope Ver. 4 wing (same as RS), gave me different axles than what was said. Gave me regular intercooler instead of STi intercooler. And packed my fragile parts and body panels by throwing them in a huge crate with barely any padding or wrapping. He has yet to respond to my emails and getting through by phone is pretty tough. And it took 7-8 months to finally get the parts from time of order!!!!! I thought this place was very legit and reputable, apparently not so. Deal with them at your own risk.
And as far as vendors here having them as a source, I know and I have heard of the horrors they have gone through from a couple of owners of the businesses. Some even mentioned a huge lawsuit. If four star does decide to refund your money, then be prepared to wait a long long time. I have also heard that their source for parts is very bad. So you think you're getting something new, but you're probably not. I should have known better when he told me he couldn't send me pics. I mean come on, how is he telling me he has a brand new Ver. 6(MY00) STi when it's 2003 already. Hey, if you want to buy something from Frank go ahead, but be prepared to be bent over. |
08-30-2003, 10:15 PM | #20 | |
Scooby Specialist
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Join Date: Apr 2001
Chapter/Region:
NWIC
Location: The Empire of Seattle
Vehicle:2013 FR-S AVO Orange |
Quote:
I think what I'm getting at is that a lot of people are talking steering ratio's as if it's the only thing separating the STi from the Evo, and that's not true. There's a lot more to it than that, and a 13:1 ratio in the STi will not make it feel like a Evo. A lot of work was put into the Evo's steering, and the ratio is only a portion of that, there's a lot of work around it that greatly contributes to it. AnotherB4 commented already that it's the little bit of waffle that may be putting some of you off, and that's something that was intentionally compromised for NVH reasons. It's easy (and cheap) enough to switch out the bushings and links in the front end and get quite a bit better feel. Cheers, Paul Hansen www.apexjapan.com |
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08-30-2003, 10:38 PM | #21 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 42495
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Orlando
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What I'm looking for is better feel - the only problem I have with the STi's steering is it's numbness. It sounds like the first step would be to replace the bushings and links and take it from there.
I'll do a search on bushings and links - Thanks |
09-02-2003, 08:23 PM | #22 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 3385
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Golden, CO
Vehicle:2002 WRX WRB |
Revlab 12.5:1 quickrack: wonderful
I installed the Revlab 12.5:1 quickrack on my 02 WRX stage 2 and I love it. I disagree with Paul Hansen that 12.5:1 requires constant attention and maker it a weekend car. It took about half a day to adapt to the quicker steering. AFter adapting, I never overturn then have to correct. I just dial in the precise amount of steering I want. My daily commute is on interstates and major city arteries, and on the weekends I drive in the Rockies. It is very comfortable in both settings, and of course it is splendid in the twisties. I never feel like a lapse of concentration will send me off the road or change lanes. From 15:1 to 12.5:1 is about 17% change, so a 6 inch steering input with 15:1 becomes 5 inch with 12.5 to 1. This isn't going to send you off the road unless you are really slow to adapt to the new ratio!
I can't say how an 11:1 would be... probably I would like it but a bit radical for some. Superg |
09-02-2003, 11:26 PM | #23 |
Top Scoob 003
Member#: 1812
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Toronto, Ontario
Vehicle:1999 Impreza Try-R Satin Black |
Basically we provide 2 options for the 2002 and up body shell. One of them results in 1 and 1/4 turns from center to lock. The quicker ratio gets you just a hair over 1 turn from lock to lock. The slower of the 2 ratios is very streetable. I would argue that even the quicker ratio wouldn't be a huge problem and we do have a couple of guys running that setup without issues. Getting a smaller steering wheel greatly amplifies the effect of the rack, and although I have yet to drive an evo, when I read all the reviews about the evo's steering, I feel that I can experience what reviewers are talking about when I take my Subaru for a spin. The quicker ratio makes the steering feel a touch "heavier" which does alot for tactile feedback. The directness of the inputs allows me to throw the rear end out with a quick flick and blip.
I wish there was a way for me to provide a test drive in a car with our rack, if anybody has a suggestion I'm all ears. |
09-03-2003, 07:13 AM | #24 | |
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09-09-2003, 12:59 AM | #25 | |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 42976
Join Date: Sep 2003
Chapter/Region:
SCIC
Location: Del Mar, California
Vehicle:04' Subie Econobox Rocket |
Quote:
Sorry for the late response. Doesn't the S202 have the 13:1 steering ratio? Anyway, I don't know too much about cars, I just know even though the USDM WRX STi feels lighter, but the R34 GTR feels more direct and have quicker turn-in. Now that I have driven another 1400 miles in the STi, the steering doesn't feel as slow anymore, maybe I got used to it? I will listen to your advice and upgrade the suspension first before I consider changing the steering rack. Superg...........thanks for the input. Boeleni..........thanks for the details. You will probably hear from me in the future. DonA..........thats what I thought. Thanks for confirming it. ADDICT |
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