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Old 09-12-2020, 07:02 PM   #1
tabrad
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Default Why shouldn't you lubricate the ball joint to knuckle connection?

I just installed the Whiteline center roll adjustment kit into my 06 STi. The ball joint socket in the knuckle was pretty rusty and it was really difficult to get the original ball joint out of the knuckle. I used a dremel and grinder attachment to clean up the socket (wire brush connection did not do much).

When I put in the new ball joints, I put a coat of antiseize around the knuckle's ball joint socket to prevent rust. I see quite a few places saying do not put lubricant into the ball joint socket. Why not, and should I expect any issues with my install (faster wear, etc)?
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Old 09-13-2020, 07:49 AM   #2
Norm Peterson
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Not sure. But one possibility is that it might be difficult torquing the nut down to its specified torque without spinning the stud since friction would be reduced. On the same note, I hope your grinding only knocked off the rust and didn't recontour the hole.


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Old 09-13-2020, 08:00 AM   #3
snow_bound26
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The castle nut is always tightened to an approximate torque value since you have to line up the the hole for a cotter pin. Once the pinch bolt is tightened on the knuckle, the ball joint itself shouldn't slip while tightening the castle nut. I have always used a lubricant on them and never had a problem.
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Old 09-13-2020, 12:32 PM   #4
tabrad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Norm Peterson View Post
Not sure. But one possibility is that it might be difficult torquing the nut down to its specified torque without spinning the stud since friction would be reduced. On the same note, I hope your grinding only knocked off the rust and didn't recontour the hole.


Norm
No issues getting the castle nut to torque spec (the manual only has it at 22 ft/lb for the STi).


I tried to keep it pretty light and only enough to get the rust out. Definitely possible that it shaved off a little beyond the rust in some spots, but hopefully not. It was still pretty difficult to get the new Whiteline ball joint in, so I assume it stayed pretty close to the same diameter. Hopefully the pinch bolt does its job and takes out all remaining slack.

I'll check back in with it after a few hundred miles and see if it has got any play or anything in it. I wouldn't be all that disappointed if this gave me an excuse to put a fresh knuckle in. But will see how it holds up first.
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Old 09-13-2020, 03:09 PM   #5
CerOf
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Is it a tapered? If so, seems like lubricating would reduce the compression/friction.
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Old 09-13-2020, 05:29 PM   #6
tabrad
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CerOf View Post
Is it a tapered? If so, seems like lubricating would reduce the compression/friction.

No they aren't tapered. They have a slot in the middle of the ball joint that is just big enough for the pinch bolt to slide into when it threads through the knuckle.
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Old 09-13-2020, 07:31 PM   #7
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I have ALWAYS applied grease or anti seize in the ball joint socket of the knuckle. You are nuts if you don’t. There is a recess in the ball joint body which the pinch bolt sits within. The ball joint body CAN NOT slip out as long as the bolt is in. I also anti seize the pinch bolt.
Do NOT apply grease to the tapered part of the ball joint.
More than 20 years experience with Subaru and have always done it this way.
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Old 09-14-2020, 11:37 AM   #8
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I believe that is a generic warning as a number of other cars out there do not use a pinch bolt to hold the ball joint body in place. In fact, many are just a straight up press fit. Subaru is a bit unique in how they do it.

With that being said I've been doing anti-seize on the body of the ball joint into the knuckle for years with no issue.

Now, on the other end - the stud end, you do want that dry as that friction fit you want to not move because it's to move at the ball and socket joint, and not wear down at the stud (Hope that makes sense).
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Old 09-14-2020, 11:49 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cboggess View Post
I believe that is a generic warning as a number of other cars out there do not use a pinch bolt to hold the ball joint body in place. In fact, many are just a straight up press fit. Subaru is a bit unique in how they do it.

With that being said I've been doing anti-seize on the body of the ball joint into the knuckle for years with no issue.

Now, on the other end - the stud end, you do want that dry as that friction fit you want to not move because it's to move at the ball and socket joint, and not wear down at the stud (Hope that makes sense).
That does make sense. I put some antiseize on the outside of the tapered steel insert that goes between the stud and the control arm (on the STi model), but not on the inside of the steel insert. Now I am thinking its probably best to have no antiseize at all on that part because of the friction that should be there. I might pull that part out and wipe it clean.
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Old 09-14-2020, 11:51 AM   #10
Norm Peterson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cboggess View Post
I believe that is a generic warning as a number of other cars out there do not use a pinch bolt to hold the ball joint body in place. In fact, many are just a straight up press fit. Subaru is a bit unique in how they do it.

...

Now, on the other end - the stud end, you do want that dry as that friction fit you want to not move because it's to move at the ball and socket joint, and not wear down at the stud (Hope that makes sense).
Both of those warnings make sense.


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Old 09-14-2020, 05:33 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bikelok View Post
I have ALWAYS applied grease or anti seize in the ball joint socket of the knuckle. You are nuts if you don't. There is a recess in the ball joint body which the pinch bolt sits within. The ball joint body CAN NOT slip out as long as the bolt is in. I also anti seize the pinch bolt.
Do NOT apply grease to the tapered part of the ball joint.
More than 20 years experience with Subaru and have always done it this way.
Agreed. I've always greased up the balljoint body and the cavity in the knuckle. I also grease the clevis for GD knuckle-to-struts. I do the same on older Subaru's strut bodies, since they also mount inside the knuckle, much like the balljoints.

I've never had a problem removing ones that I've installed using this method.
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Old 09-20-2020, 08:51 PM   #12
Djentleman
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I split the ball joint while removing hub and no luck getting it out.. considering just getting the assembly off a wrecker at this point. Does a torch usually do the trick? Also, a portion of the pinch bolt threads was missing when pulled out.
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Old 09-25-2020, 09:12 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Djentleman View Post
I split the ball joint while removing hub and no luck getting it out.. considering just getting the assembly off a wrecker at this point. Does a torch usually do the trick? Also, a portion of the pinch bolt threads was missing when pulled out.
https://www.subaruoutback.org/thread...-puller.46826/
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Old 09-26-2020, 11:31 PM   #14
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The BJ sticks in the knuckle, and pinch bolts snap, because of rust. Obvious right.... I wouldn't add grease or antisieze to the BJ, but that just me. This is what I do. Metal on metal BJ to knuckle pocket. Bust all the rust out of the knuckle pocket for the BJ. Apply silicone grease (its like antisieze, but better, 3M product) to the very bottom of the BJ pocket in the knuckle, stay with me it will makes sense in a second. No grease or whatever on the sides of the BJ pocket, just the bottom. Now put it all together. Use silicone and coat the threads and shank of the pinch bolt, torque to spec. Last step, that slit in the knuckle, that the pinch bolt closes up, that is the reason the BJ, knuckle and pinch bolt rust out. Seal that slit shut with silicone.

The slit is on top, lets in water and crap, settles in the knuckles BJ pocket and rust everything to chit. If you do above the pinch bolt will be a slight PIA to get out because of the fine threads and silicone gumming things up, but....It will not rust shut and the bolt wont snap.
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Old 09-28-2020, 12:13 PM   #15
car_freak85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by albersondh View Post
The BJ sticks in the knuckle, and pinch bolts snap, because of rust. Obvious right.... I wouldn't add grease or antisieze to the BJ, but that just me. This is what I do.
This accomplishes the same thing as greasing up the balljoint body. Once the part is installed, using either method, the grease wont wash away, so no rust can form. Use whatever method you prefer, all we are trying to do is protect and prevent unfinished steel components from fusing together.
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Old 12-13-2021, 05:39 PM   #16
car_freak85
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Quick follow-up on this topic:

Well, our '99 Forester's 4EAT took a dump. Had to release the ball joints from the knuckle to get the axles out of the transmission. This Forester gets driven in salty, snowy ski roads all winter, and I make a habit of greasing the bodies of all ball joint housings prior to assembly.

Removed the pinch bolt from the knuckle, stuck a prybar between the control arm and knuckle and *poof*, ball joint slid right out with no fuss whatsoever.

Anyone who doesn't grease their ball joints is nuts, especially if you live in the rust belt.
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Old 12-17-2021, 11:27 AM   #17
REX_WGN
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I really don't see a reason to not anti-seize the ball joint cup in the knuckle. The pinch bolt is what keeps the ball joint from falling out as there's a recess "belt" around the ball joint where this pinch bolt resides when bolted down.

I just fought tooth and nail to separate a completely seized ball joint and knuckle in my 09 FXT. heat, spray, ball joint tugger tool, mortar chisel and BFH. I don't even care that I'll probably never get to install a new ball joint. I'm just glad the next owner down the line won't have to fight like I did.
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