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Old 09-21-2020, 04:53 PM   #1
WhiteZombie
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Default Best 200ish treadwear UHP tires for cooler/cold dry weather?

I just picked up a set of 2011-2014 WRX wheels as my track/autocross/touge "grippier" setup for my daily wagon, and would like to get some UHP tires mounted up.

Likely to be mostly aggressive street miles for bits of the summer, winter trackcross series at Summit Point and maybe a trip down to Tail of the Dragon etc sometime late fall/early spring.

Anybody have any recommendations for 225-235 in 17" diameter that either warm up quick and/or don't totally suck in 40-50 degree Fahrenheit ambient temps?

Ideally something semi-long wearing and somewhat inexpensive, as I already have a dedicated track car that sucks up most of my money
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Old 09-21-2020, 10:15 PM   #2
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federal rsr in a 235 40 17 is a good choice, when yu say track tire are you thinking auto cross or real track days
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Old 09-21-2020, 11:40 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by subaru_gc8 View Post
federal rsr in a 235 40 17 is a good choice, when yu say track tire are you thinking auto cross or real track days
2NDED... Not crazy money.. and unless your going for the OA Pax title these should do you good.. they work in 50's plus weather.. used them on my BRZ nationally..
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Old 09-22-2020, 09:49 AM   #4
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I would suggest the Conti ECS or Michelin PS4S. The Conti is cheaper, but works well for what you're after and will work down to just above freezing. It's about 1.5 seconds off the top 200 TW tires on a 60 second autox course, but if you're not going for times, they're pretty awesome. Bonus is they are excellent rain tires and here in the south I run them 365 days a year.
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Old 09-22-2020, 10:21 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by subaru_gc8 View Post
federal rsr in a 235 40 17 is a good choice, when yu say track tire are you thinking auto cross or real track days
Mostly autocross type events, ie, not 20 minute hot lap sessions, so not gonna build a ton of heat. I already have a 3 season track car, but might use the WRX in the future for a Track Night or something local in the warmer weather when I don't feel like prepping and loading the track rat.

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Originally Posted by subydude View Post
I would suggest the Conti ECS or Michelin PS4S. The Conti is cheaper, but works well for what you're after and will work down to just above freezing. It's about 1.5 seconds off the top 200 TW tires on a 60 second autox course, but if you're not going for times, they're pretty awesome. Bonus is they are excellent rain tires and here in the south I run them 365 days a year.
Noted. Now, that said, do you think they'd fair better in the cooler/cold weather than something cheaper like the Federal RSR or Falken 615/660?
I already have a dedicated wheel/tire setup for daily duty the majority of the year.
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Old 09-22-2020, 10:27 AM   #6
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I haven't ran on the RSR, but have on the Falken 615 and the ECS would be better than the 615 in cold. It's almost as good in hotter temps as well. The new 660 is stickier and faster, but seems to be more in line with other 200 tw tires where it's not great below 60 degrees.
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Old 09-22-2020, 07:18 PM   #7
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Originally Posted by WhiteZombie View Post
Mostly autocross type events, ie, not 20 minute hot lap sessions, so not gonna build a ton of heat. I already have a 3 season track car, but might use the WRX in the future for a Track Night or something local in the warmer weather when I don't feel like prepping and loading the track rat.


Noted. Now, that said, do you think they'd fair better in the cooler/cold weather than something cheaper like the Federal RSR or Falken 615/660?
I already have a dedicated wheel/tire setup for daily duty the majority of the year.
you know the bridgestones are still one of the very best for autocross but they dont last very long at all and they tend to heat up very quick and get real soft when over pushed. I had the older falkens and those things sucked. I also had the kumho and they were good, very stiff side walls way stiffer than most of the tires i have tired, plus theyre cheap. people also say the yokohamas are pretty good too those might be a good try too
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Old 09-23-2020, 01:21 PM   #8
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I haven't ran on the RSR, but have on the Falken 615 and the ECS would be better than the 615 in cold. It's almost as good in hotter temps as well. The new 660 is stickier and faster, but seems to be more in line with other 200 tw tires where it's not great below 60 degrees.
OK, noted! My 200tw cold weather experience is pretty limited with my track car as I drive it to every event and try not to plan any events where I might have to drive it on salty winter roads. I have done VIR and Mosport in low to mid 40 degree morning sessions, but in a car that weighs nearly 3900lbs fully loaded, the tires come up to temp within 2 laps or so.

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Originally Posted by subaru_gc8 View Post
you know the bridgestones are still one of the very best for autocross but they dont last very long at all and they tend to heat up very quick and get real soft when over pushed. I had the older falkens and those things sucked. I also had the kumho and they were good, very stiff side walls way stiffer than most of the tires i have tired, plus theyre cheap. people also say the yokohamas are pretty good too those might be a good try too
I had pretty decent luck with my Falken 615K+ on the track car the last 3 seasons, but again, it's big, heavy and not setting any records, but nice to get 2-3 seasons out of a set of tires, even if they're a second or two from the top of the 200tw heap.

I'm intrigued by the Federal Rs-R and the new Falken 660, mostly due to their lower cost. Don't think I'm gonna track hard or often enough to wear them out in a season or two, but haven't hammered on the camber challenged wagon too much yet. Surprisingly, I'm wearing the outer edges with hard cornering almost as fast as the inner edges are wearing set at -2.0 camber in 35k miles of mostly street driving with the occasional trackcross/autocross a few times a year, and a fair amount of "twisty road" driving.

Last edited by WhiteZombie; 09-23-2020 at 01:39 PM.
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Old 09-23-2020, 01:33 PM   #9
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My Pilot Super Sports lasted over 35,000 miles and the ones on Ford's cars were great on the cold dry track even while snowflakes were falling. This was near Salt Lake City. I have 30,000 miles on my 4S now and they are as good if just a little bit squirmier. Minimal drop off in grip as temps go down.

I have no idea how they stack up against the other tires listed. I've stuck with Michelin.
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Old 10-05-2020, 11:01 AM   #10
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My Pilot Super Sports lasted over 35,000 miles and the ones on Ford’s cars were great on the cold dry track even while snowflakes were falling. This was near Salt Lake City. I have 30,000 miles on my 4S now and they are as good if just a little bit squirmier. Minimal drop off in grip as temps go down.

I have no idea how they stack up against the other tires listed. I’ve stuck with Michelin.
Just peeked on TireRack and they only seem to offer the PSS in one 17" diameter these days, and it's a 205mm width

https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...ot+Super+Sport
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Old 10-12-2020, 01:52 PM   #11
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Isn't the PSS 4s the one people mostly refer to?
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...Pilot+Sport+4S
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Old 10-12-2020, 03:16 PM   #12
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Originally Posted by pazzoduc View Post
Isn't the PSS 4s the one people mostly refer to?
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...Pilot+Sport+4S
Maybe? Makes more sense, as it's available in so many more common sizes. Thanks for pointing that out.

Still torn..... ahhh..... spend $130/tire for something stickier in warmer weather, or $200/tire for something a little more well rounded from the sound of it.
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Old 10-12-2020, 03:28 PM   #13
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Originally Posted by pazzoduc View Post
Isn't the PSS 4s the one people mostly refer to?
https://www.tirerack.com/tires/tires...Pilot+Sport+4S
Usually the distinction is made like this:

PSS or MPSS = Pilot Super Sport (the older tire)

PS4S = Pilot Sport 4S (the newer tire)


Both of these Michelins are nominally 300 treadwear tires, but they do punch a bit above the 300 class as a whole.


The Michelin tire that's closest to 200 treadwear is the Pilot Sport Cup 2 (PSC2). But they're only 180, which makes them not class-legal where there is a 200 treadwear minimum.


Norm

Last edited by Norm Peterson; 10-12-2020 at 03:33 PM.
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Old 10-13-2020, 12:17 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by Norm Peterson View Post
Usually the distinction is made like this:

PSS or MPSS = Pilot Super Sport (the older tire)

PS4S = Pilot Sport 4S (the newer tire)


Both of these Michelins are nominally 300 treadwear tires, but they do punch a bit above the 300 class as a whole.


The Michelin tire that's closest to 200 treadwear is the Pilot Sport Cup 2 (PSC2). But they're only 180, which makes them not class-legal where there is a 200 treadwear minimum.


Norm
Hey thanks for clarification!

Are you aware of any differences between the PSS or PS4S?

As much as I'd like a cheap 200tw sticky, anything is gonna be better than 2 year old 500tw all-seasons I've been running at the occasional trackcross or more frequent spirited twisty drive.

Since I supposed I'm primarily buying these for my daily in an "off-season" trip down to Tail of the Dragon and/or "off-season" winter trackcross, both of which could have some wildly unknown weather/temperature variables, the Michelin seems like a smart choice. I've got a different track car with 200tw for the other 3/4 of the year.
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Old 10-13-2020, 12:42 PM   #15
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The PS4S is more capable as a performance tire and comes with a little shallower tread depth. It's also more sensitive to cold temperatures, and comes with a more specific warning than the PSS. Below 20°F is a no-no for the PS4s due to some risk of cracking that isn't warrantable, but this warning hasn't been extended back to the PSS.


Quote:
Note: Tires exposed to temperatures of 20 degrees F (-7 degrees C) or lower must be permitted to gradually return to temperatures of at least 40 degrees F (5 degrees C) for at least 24 hours before they are flexed in any manner, such as by adjusting inflation pressures, mounting them on wheels or using them to support, roll or drive a vehicle.

Flexing of the specialized rubber compounds used in Max Performance Summer tires during cold-weather use can result in irreversible compound cracking. Compound cracking is not a warrantable condition because it occurs as the result of improper use or storage, tires exhibiting compound cracking must be replaced.

I've run the PSS at temperatures down into the teens F without issue, but I don't think I'd run the PS4S much below 32F.


Norm
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Old 10-13-2020, 01:07 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by Norm Peterson View Post
The PS4S is more capable as a performance tire and comes with a little shallower tread depth. It's also more sensitive to cold temperatures, and comes with a more specific warning than the PSS. Below 20°F is a no-no for the PS4s due to some risk of cracking that isn't warrantable, but this warning hasn't been extended back to the PSS.





I've run the PSS at temperatures down into the teens F without issue, but I don't think I'd run the PS4S much below 32F.


Norm
Awesome, thank you!

I wouldn't be driving the car in temps below freezing regardless, as I can always drive down to ToD or Summit Point on my all-seasons and swap them to the "track" setup once I'm there.

Pretty sure the daytime temps down there aren't much, if at all below freezing, and the trackcross series cancels for freezing and/or snowy weather if I remember correctly.
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Old 10-14-2020, 11:25 AM   #17
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Does anyone have experience with the Falken RT660?
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Old 10-14-2020, 12:33 PM   #18
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Does anyone have experience with the Falken RT660?
That's my other candidate.

Had the 615K+ on my track car and loved them for the price, but never really drove them in the "cold" per se. I think the coldest event I did was VIR last year in February. 40's to start in the first morning session, and it only took maybe a lap for them to feel like the came up to temp, but that's under a 3900lb car with big torque and grabby pads.

A few others have chimed in and said they 660 seems to be similar to the Re71R in the cold, ie, not awesome. As previously mentioned though, I'd have to imagine they'd still be a big jump from my 500tw all-seasons once they get a little temp in them ?
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