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Old 12-31-2022, 05:14 PM   #1
Wes7143
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Default Custom Water to Air Intercooler

Sharing some pics of a water to air setup I am building.

I decided to go with water to air instead of the many FMIC or TMIC options.

Everything is just roughly tacked together for now. I still need to figure out where I am going to put the BPV and make some support brackets.









Thoughts/comments?
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Old 12-31-2022, 08:00 PM   #2
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First thought is replace that silicone intake with a metal one if you are going to the trouble of using AWIC.

It can make a huge difference.
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Old 01-03-2023, 04:58 PM   #3
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Nice set-up! I have similar one using the same IC. I’m on the fence between using the aluminum IM and the plastic one. The aluminum one will require some extra piping due to the throttle body opening, but could offer some space for an BPV. What pump & heat exchanger are you running?
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Old 01-03-2023, 05:12 PM   #4
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For a split second I thought I was looking at mine
Yup, this type of layout is the absolute bees knees. You can see where my BOV is and I can get more pics of my brackets.







"just important that it's not presented as better than what is currently available"

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Last edited by tmp042; 01-03-2023 at 05:24 PM.
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Old 01-03-2023, 05:44 PM   #5
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OP where are you piecing together your setup from? Which core/heat exchanger?
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Old 01-03-2023, 07:37 PM   #6
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I like it wes
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Old 01-04-2023, 07:39 AM   #7
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Your inlet and outlet elbows look a little oversized. On paper it’s a unnecessary pressure drop, but in real world it would be totally unnoticeable (I guess being cast they have a rather thick wall thickness).
I used a donut for my elbows, so all the piping is 60mm ID (1.5”).
You will have probably noticed the crank case breather hose won’t fit anymore, I ended up making a offset fitting which now allows the catch can hose to fit nicely (I borrowed a slide hammer to pull out the original fitting). Some people have managed to squish the hose on, but it wasn’t very pretty. The picture below you can see how close the breather fitting is after rotating the compressor housing, below that fitting for comparison is the one I made to offset the pipe (the factory hose one has a 4.7mm restrictor in it).



The front two brackets I used existing threads on the block to bolt to, and the single rear goes onto the gear box. Now I’ve changed from the 5spd to the STI 6spd, i’ll need to find a new mounting point for the rear. I couldn’t find anything for the port-side to mount to, but with three it’s extremely sturdy.

This is the rear gearbox mount on the 5spd I used, I put a little insert in it which isn’t really necessary.



I bought the SAMCO silicone BOV return hose so I can plumb it back to the inlet.
My brackets were water jet cut and having no CAD experience at the time, I used the primary school edition of CorelDraw to draw the 2D design (of course a bit of steel angle would do the same job).
Originally I had my piping slightly different so required the bend in the front bracket, but since altering it there’s now no need.
The little housing in-front of the throttle body is just to house some extra sensors.
I pulled my setup out and took some photos today so you can see it in more detail.











My car is just a daily driver which mostly sits in slow speed traffic, so I mounted twin spal fans behind the heat exchanger. Speeds below 19km/h (12mi/h) they constantly run (switch off when the VSS reads higher than 19hm/h).
Obviously no shroud is fitted as it would hinder air flow to the radiator.

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Old 01-04-2023, 02:13 PM   #8
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Thanks for sharing, tmp042! Clean st-up you have! Can you share some details? 1) Pump you’re running 2) Diameter of your water line 3) Fan controller, manual switch or electronic temp activated?
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Old 01-04-2023, 07:44 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frogmonk View Post
Thanks for sharing, tmp042! Clean st-up you have! Can you share some details? 1) Pump you're running 2) Diameter of your water line 3) Fan controller, manual switch or electronic temp activated?
No worries, more than happy to help.
The pump is the Bosch water/intercooler pump 1200lp/h

https://www.bosch-motorsport-shop.co...-pump-1200-lph

I'm using -12AN Push LOK fittings for the water lines, so all my hoses are for those fittings (approximately 20mm ID).

My fan controller will be via an DIY arduino.
I built a diff mounted speed sensor which will provide the signal and will have a isolator switch in the dash as well.
I made two sensor housings for the inlet and outlet so I can get a good idea of what's happening. Later on we can tie this data into the arduino. I'll also set alarms incase temps get high and also fitted a optic water level sensor at the highest point in the event I get a leak. I also have two IAT sensors on the air intake/outlet of the core for more accurate monitoring.





Davies Craig have fantastic pump controllers and a range of water pumps. Im using their larger EWP150 and controller for my engine. Many people actually use that pump for their "water to air" setup.



"just important that it's not presented as better than what is currently available"

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Last edited by tmp042; 01-05-2023 at 12:08 AM. Reason: Added further information
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Old 01-06-2023, 09:12 AM   #10
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Thanks a lot for all the info! I have to ask about the "10mm socket deflection plate". Haha
Beautiful setup, it seems so easy to work with. I was looking at the frozen boost top mount Intercooler, but are these straight through intercoolers more efficient or something? I see these all the time in other car builds. I guess my most important question is how much power are you making/going to make? I'm going to run the Perrin GD rotated Garret kit with a GTX 3076r Gen1. So I'll have a bit more room on the turbo side of the engine bay. But I'll be running it on a 207 2.1 stroker setup and I know clearance issues for some intake manifolds is an issue due to the location of the AVCS solenoids.

Last edited by T Rav471; 01-06-2023 at 09:19 AM.
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Old 01-06-2023, 04:02 PM   #11
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No problem
I once had a magnetic fishing trip to retrieve a bolt that fell down the up-pipe while changing turbos. Instead of stuffing an old rag into it, I made a few of these highly visible covers for others to use.
We all know how the 10mm is such an escape artist
I only used the straight through setup as it looked symmetrical in the engine bay and worked nicely with the off centre intake manifold (no other science based reason).
Im aiming for 300kw (400hp), that core is rated for 700hp, though Im using the 550hp rated heat exchanger.


Last edited by tmp042; 01-06-2023 at 04:09 PM.
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Old 01-08-2023, 12:07 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmp042 View Post
No problem
I once had a magnetic fishing trip to retrieve a bolt that fell down the up-pipe while changing turbos. Instead of stuffing an old rag into it, I made a few of these highly visible covers for others to use.
We all know how the 10mm is such an escape artist
I only used the straight through setup as it looked symmetrical in the engine bay and worked nicely with the off centre intake manifold (no other science based reason).
Im aiming for 300kw (400hp), that core is rated for 700hp, though Im using the 550hp rated heat exchanger.

This is hilarious I want!! LOL I love this guy
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Old 01-08-2023, 12:18 AM   #13
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If you want to send me a PM, I can put one in an envelope and post it across the Pacific.

Sorry OP for the unintentional thread jack.
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Old 01-15-2023, 09:45 PM   #14
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So I thought I had thread notifications turned on. I did not!

Quote:
Originally Posted by K3rm1tth3fr0g View Post
First thought is replace that silicone intake with a metal one if you are going to the trouble of using AWIC.

It can make a huge difference.
Yes, a Killer B or similar inlet is definitely on the shopping list. Since I don't need it immediately, I've been holding out hope to find a used inlet before I buy new.

Quote:
Originally Posted by frogmonk View Post
Nice set-up! I have similar one using the same IC. I’m on the fence between using the aluminum IM and the plastic one. The aluminum one will require some extra piping due to the throttle body opening, but could offer some space for an BPV. What pump & heat exchanger are you running?
Thank you! I chose the plastic IM specifically because of the direct piping route. I did buy a 2.5i "big plenum/short runner" IM to play around with as well, but so far haven't thought of a good way to run it. I'm hoping to fit the BPV on the throttle side elbow. Maybe an aftermarket BPV like a Tial QR.

I'm going to use a Bosch pump, PN 0392022002.

The heat exchanger I chose is made by ZZP. I originally measured for fitment with an Oswald lightweight front bumper beam but eventually changed my mind and got Perrin FMIC bumper beam, so I have a lot more room for a bigger heat exchanger in the future if I need one. I'm just going to cut off the included tabs and weld my own.



Quote:
Originally Posted by K3rm1tth3fr0g View Post
OP where are you piecing together your setup from? Which core/heat exchanger?
The core I chose is this cheap Chinese intercooler. Seeing it in person, I suspect it will do the job just fine. I do find its "600 hp" rating a little dubious though, unless they are talking strictly about flow resistance.

Quote:
Originally Posted by motorbykemike View Post
I like it wes
Thanks Mike!
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Old 01-15-2023, 10:02 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tmp042 View Post
Your inlet and outlet elbows look a little oversized. On paper it’s a unnecessary pressure drop, but in real world it would be totally unnoticeable (I guess being cast they have a rather thick wall thickness).
The elbows are definitely oversized. The intercooler came with the tanks already welded on, and I found it easier and cheaper to just stick with the 3" diameter for the elbows. Ideally I would have preferred smaller.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmp042 View Post
I used a donut for my elbows, so all the piping is 60mm ID (1.5”).
You will have probably noticed the crank case breather hose won’t fit anymore, I ended up making a offset fitting which now allows the catch can hose to fit nicely (I borrowed a slide hammer to pull out the original fitting). Some people have managed to squish the hose on, but it wasn’t very pretty. The picture below you can see how close the breather fitting is after rotating the compressor housing, below that fitting for comparison is the one I made to offset the pipe (the factory hose one has a 4.7mm restrictor in it).
Thanks for the heads up about the breather. I hadn't identified it as a problem, but looking back at some photos I took, I bet it will be. I'm probably going to opt for the "make it work but it isn't very pretty approach" though haha

Quote:
Originally Posted by tmp042 View Post
The front two brackets I used existing threads on the block to bolt to, and the single rear goes onto the gear box. Now I’ve changed from the 5spd to the STI 6spd, i’ll need to find a new mounting point for the rear. I couldn’t find anything for the port-side to mount to, but with three it’s extremely sturdy.

This is the rear gearbox mount on the 5spd I used, I put a little insert in it which isn’t really necessary.

I bought the SAMCO silicone BOV return hose so I can plumb it back to the inlet.
My brackets were water jet cut and having no CAD experience at the time, I used the primary school edition of CorelDraw to draw the 2D design (of course a bit of steel angle would do the same job).
Originally I had my piping slightly different so required the bend in the front bracket, but since altering it there’s now no need.
The little housing in-front of the throttle body is just to house some extra sensors.
I pulled my setup out and took some photos today so you can see it in more detail.

My car is just a daily driver which mostly sits in slow speed traffic, so I mounted twin spal fans behind the heat exchanger. Speeds below 19km/h (12mi/h) they constantly run (switch off when the VSS reads higher than 19hm/h).
Obviously no shroud is fitted as it would hinder air flow to the radiator.
Beautiful work! And great photos. I've played around with having 2D things cut for me by Sendcutsend and have thought about doing the same for my own intercooler mounts. However, I'm finding that I'm more of the "cardboard aided design" kind of CAD person. Mostly because measuring is hard and I like to make mistakes.

Did you find that you needed the fans from data? I am hoping that my heat exchanger will not need its own fans since it sits in front of the radiator, which already has fans.

Likewise for the water tank. Was that always part of your setup? Or did you add it to increase thermal capacity? I am also hoping that between the core, changer, and all the lines, that I will have enough water for my needs.
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Old 01-15-2023, 10:30 PM   #16
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All my brackets/mounts start with "Cardboard Aided Design", then I fine tune them in the basic CAD
The fans are not necessary, I just did it for a little bit of fun. As for the reservoir I wont be using it so no real benefit, other than unnecessary ballast for the front end. It was originally for a interchiller system.

Last edited by tmp042; 01-15-2023 at 10:32 PM. Reason: Added further information
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Old 01-16-2023, 08:46 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wes7143 View Post
I chose the plastic IM specifically because of the direct piping route.
Just to add another opinion, I'm a big fan of the 08+ plastic manifold. It's a great upgrade that is very underutilized by enthusiasts. It WILL make power EVERYWHERE in the rev range. We used it to 760whp, 8,400 RPMs, and boost in the mid 40s with zero issues.

People get turned off that it's WRX part and can't possibly flow as much, or that it will break under higher boost. It's far more symmetrical and has a much better plenum area as well.
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Old 01-16-2023, 10:16 AM   #18
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so I assume this has a standalone water circuit independent of the engine cooling system?

How low can the water temps actually be maintained once up to steady state?
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Old 01-16-2023, 10:16 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KillerBMotorsport View Post
Just to add another opinion, I'm a big fan of the 08+ plastic manifold. It's a great upgrade that is very underutilized by enthusiasts. It WILL make power EVERYWHERE in the rev range. We used it to 760whp, 8,400 RPMs, and boost in the mid 40s with zero issues.

People get turned off that it's WRX part and can't possibly flow as much, or that it will break under higher boost. It's far more symmetrical and has a much better plenum area as well.
The big obstacle for me with the plastic manifold is the wiring. The car is an 05 STi, so the original manifold wiring harness does not look like it wants to fit with this different style of manifold.

I'm debating either lengthening/shortening parts of my current harness to fit this manifold, or buying a harness from a vehicle that originally came with the plastic manifold and repinning the main connector. I'm also pretty concerned with grounding pathways since the original harness uses the aluminum manifold as a common grounding point.
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Old 01-16-2023, 10:32 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by rtv900 View Post
so I assume this has a standalone water circuit independent of the engine cooling system?

How low can the water temps actually be maintained once up to steady state?
Yes, this will be a separate cooling system from the engine.

Ideally, if the intercooler and heat exchanger are large and effective enough, and there is enough water in the system, the IATs should be at or around ambient temps with the way I'm setting up my system.

I'll have some logging IAT sensors in the system once I'm up and running to make sure this is happening. I might find that I need a bigger heat exchanger or a water tank for extra capacity ect.

Cooling performance should be comparable to a well designed FMIC, but without the several feet of boost piping running through the engine bay.

Other setups can achieve temps well below ambient either with ice boxes, or integrating the AC system (see interchiller). But my setup is just a simple ambient temp system.
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Old 01-20-2023, 11:06 AM   #21
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Wow so you're water cooling the the air that would normally come through the intercooler? Interesting. I thought I could only water cool computers.
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Old 01-20-2023, 11:09 AM   #22
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Quote:
Wow so you're water cooling the the air that would normally come through the intercooler? Interesting. I thought I could only water cool computers.
Water cooled intercoolers have been on the marked for many years, nothing new, just uncommon on Subarus.
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Old 01-20-2023, 11:09 AM   #23
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Quote:
Wow so you're water cooling the the air that would normally come through the intercooler? Interesting. I thought I could only water cool computers.
Water cooled intercoolers have been on the marked for many years, nothing new, just uncommon on Subarus.
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Old 01-20-2023, 03:03 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rtv900 View Post
so I assume this has a standalone water circuit independent of the engine cooling system?

How low can the water temps actually be maintained once up to steady state?
Ambient I would hope, less with ice.
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Old 01-20-2023, 03:51 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BlackFighter View Post
Water cooled intercoolers have been on the marked for many years, nothing new, just uncommon on Subarus.
The Subaru RS Liberty came factory with a water to air intercooler.
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