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08-08-2022, 12:49 PM | #7476 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 183032
Join Date: Jun 2008
Chapter/Region:
NESIC
Location: CT
Vehicle:RWD Camry Pull me over red |
Quote:
Note: Subaru's symmetrical AWD is "Full time AWD with same-length half shafts" if they dump the "full time" part of their definition, a motor up front and a motor out back would still be symmetrical. Running both motors all the time is inefficient, but they can still do it, again, lines of code, they will just have less range than a part-time system will. Considering the Solterra is both using the "Symmetrical AWD" marketing term and is a variable system, as apposed to a 50:50 system (though that is the default setting) I think they will be fine. Solterra can go to 70F30R or 40F60R depending on conditions/drive mode. The only time I foresee them moving from a symmetrical system would be in a performance model with multiple rear motors and one front motor. Food for thought, the BRZ is not symmetrical AWD and people like it just fine *shrug*
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08-08-2022, 01:26 PM | #7477 | |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 67807
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
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Quote:
I always figured the WRX as a poor man's Audi S4 when it first came here. Hence the sedan and wagon variants and standard AWD. Performance was similar for 40% less out of pocket. Sure people compare everything under the sun when it comes to performance metrics and price point. But to me Subaru was offering a unique package similar to what the upscale Germans were offering. |
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08-08-2022, 02:38 PM | #7478 | |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 527735
Join Date: Dec 2021
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Quote:
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08-08-2022, 02:47 PM | #7479 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 75071
Join Date: Nov 2004
Chapter/Region:
Tri-State
Location: Long Island
Vehicle:23 Solterra,ModelY Old: 05 08 11 WRX, 18 STI |
Quote:
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08-08-2022, 02:54 PM | #7480 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 75071
Join Date: Nov 2004
Chapter/Region:
Tri-State
Location: Long Island
Vehicle:23 Solterra,ModelY Old: 05 08 11 WRX, 18 STI |
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08-08-2022, 03:27 PM | #7481 | |||||
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 153088
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Arlington, TN
Vehicle:2005 Baja Turbo 95&96 Sambar 06 Forester |
Quote:
WRX started out hard with 20K+ sales then tapered off just about as hard with a sink to 8300 in 2010. Then it picked back up to 17K for 2013. VA hits? Jumps one year to 25K up to 33K 2 years later. Then slowly declines....still holding in the 20Ks until the pandemic where it becomes a debate as to exactly why sales slipped back to under 20K. But, in 7 years of sales.....doubling 12 years of sales combined. None of other models did that to their previous gens. Quote:
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Are you talking about modern offerings? There isn't a Legacy GT. |
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08-08-2022, 04:04 PM | #7482 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 75071
Join Date: Nov 2004
Chapter/Region:
Tri-State
Location: Long Island
Vehicle:23 Solterra,ModelY Old: 05 08 11 WRX, 18 STI |
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08-08-2022, 06:08 PM | #7483 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 153088
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Arlington, TN
Vehicle:2005 Baja Turbo 95&96 Sambar 06 Forester |
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08-08-2022, 06:15 PM | #7484 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 67807
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
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That's what Spitz is for. Never swallows.
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08-08-2022, 06:57 PM | #7485 | |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 139693
Join Date: Feb 2007
Vehicle:Dura ngo 95 horrorshow |
Quote:
We’ve seen, in fact, many “segments” where people are tired of how large the vehicles have become. Take the #1 vehicles sold in America, trucks. Over the last 5 years we’ve seen a whole different send by mfr’s. Many buyers tired of gigantrons as full sized trucks have become too large. We’ve seen the Honda Ridgeline, GMC Twins, Ford Ranger, and now Maverick, a Hyundai compact truck offering and the Frontier continues. So even with trucks, and many of these newer smaller CUV’s, the trend is the opposite of what you stated, vehicles getting smaller, not larger. |
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08-08-2022, 07:53 PM | #7486 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 153088
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Arlington, TN
Vehicle:2005 Baja Turbo 95&96 Sambar 06 Forester |
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08-08-2022, 08:01 PM | #7487 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 67807
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
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Being I'm primarily in the used Subaru market, I use his site pretty often.
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08-08-2022, 10:30 PM | #7488 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 2272
Join Date: Sep 2000
Chapter/Region:
BAIC
Location: Fire Caves
Vehicle:2019 Macan 4cyl 1993 Impreza FWD WRX swap |
The good news is pretty much everything on his site was just redundant info from Subaru brochures and service manuals, so the info is still out there. Especially since Subaru has put a lot of that online and easy to access.
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08-08-2022, 10:46 PM | #7489 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 67807
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
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The site is still up. When is he taking it down?
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08-09-2022, 12:26 AM | #7490 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 268362
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: CT
Vehicle:2006 blue |
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08-09-2022, 10:08 AM | #7491 | |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region:
TXIC
Location: www.testdrivemylife.com
Vehicle:2020 JEEP / RAM Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000 |
Quote:
does not make it a good hamburger. appealing to the Camry buyer does not make a good WRX. |
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08-09-2022, 12:11 PM | #7492 |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 21356
Join Date: Jul 2002
Chapter/Region:
NESIC
Location: Can't catch me!
Vehicle:2017 Subaru Corolla STI Limited SE-R Type (R) |
dejavu
I swear I read the same argument about the wrx. Are we coming on the argument loop already? |
08-09-2022, 12:17 PM | #7493 | ||
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 75071
Join Date: Nov 2004
Chapter/Region:
Tri-State
Location: Long Island
Vehicle:23 Solterra,ModelY Old: 05 08 11 WRX, 18 STI |
Quote:
Quote:
The point was all Subarus have grown based on their segment, especially since the 2000s when they took into consideration US buyer expectations. Since then, new Subarus have outsold their smaller ancestors. VA was bigger than GD/GE (sedans). VA outsold those previous generations. 2002 GD = 173.4" 2008 GE = 180.3" 2015 VA = 180.9" 2022 VB = 183.8" GRC is a whole nother topic, with sizing made perfect for you. OEMs are removing small cars and replacing them with small platform trucks. Yes, some new people want to move up to a truck, at not a gigantic size. That is not reducing full size truck sales. Ford F150 had been selling 70k trucks per month before the pandemic. Ford Ranger sells 7k/month. Ford Maverick sells about 6k per month Last edited by Snow Drift; 08-09-2022 at 12:34 PM. |
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08-09-2022, 12:58 PM | #7494 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 183032
Join Date: Jun 2008
Chapter/Region:
NESIC
Location: CT
Vehicle:RWD Camry Pull me over red |
Quote:
Although comparing wheelbase and vehicle length changes over the years can be an indicator of design change intent. For example, wheelbase only went up 1" between the VA & VB but the overall length went up by 3"; they only gained 0.5cuft of cargo room, so I'd wonder if the majority of it is rear bumper protrusion, and possibly front crash safety requirements. 2002 GD = 99.4" 2008 GE = 103.1" 2015 VA = 104.1" 2018 VB = 105.1" The problem with the impreza growing is that typically as a car model grows, something smaller slots in under it; it happened with the civic (fit), it happened with the corolla (yaris), happened with the Mazda323/Mazda3 (Mazda2), as for domestics... they throw names around like confetti, and bring them back like a necromancer, but a similar practice has occurred. Can Subaru make & sell a sub-compact that will be ~4k cheaper than the Impreza, while maintaining some semblance of a profit margin? I'm not sure they can if they stick to the "Everything symmetrical AWD (except the BRZ)" mentality. Can Subaru achieve the Fuel economy required with the powertrains they currently have? I highly doubt it. Is there demand for a sub-compact AWD vehicle? Not certain, I'd consider a hot-hatch or wagon version of one, like many enthusiasts would (at least the hatch), but not the vanilla variant, or a hot sedan (some would though), I'm painfully picky when it comes to vehicles, and my tastes are out there (fast wagons for instance). I've always tried to buy the smallest vehicle that suits my needs while satisfying as many of my wants as possible, and I realize my particular wants do not align with the general public, hence all of the trucks with pristine beds, Jeeps that never go offroad, & single people with CUVs & SUVs. |
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08-09-2022, 01:02 PM | #7495 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 75071
Join Date: Nov 2004
Chapter/Region:
Tri-State
Location: Long Island
Vehicle:23 Solterra,ModelY Old: 05 08 11 WRX, 18 STI |
Quote:
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08-09-2022, 01:23 PM | #7496 | |
Scooby Specialist
Member#: 94408
Join Date: Aug 2005
Chapter/Region:
E. Canada
Location: Canada
Vehicle:17 STI Sport-Tech 20 Corolla Hybrid Premium |
Quote:
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08-09-2022, 02:07 PM | #7497 |
Scooby Newbie
Member#: 527735
Join Date: Dec 2021
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I'd argue the crossover craze is what's killing subcompact cars, not midsize sedans. It's not necessarily the size of the cars that bother consumers, it's their distance from the ground.
If Subaru really wanted to benefit from their partnership they'd rebadge the Yaris cross and import that. It would fit nicely under the Crosstrek. Make it look like that forestery looking viziv future concept from years ago. Bring it over as a hybrid and doubly benefit from the fuel economy. But on the note of crossovers and the WRX, it's hilarious to me that Subaru put cladding on it instead of putting its engine in the Crosstrek. Talk about following market trends and appealing to hatchback buyers who want a shorter vehicle. 176 inches isn't quite as small as the original WRX but it's a lot closer than 183. I'm not sure I'd buy it, but I'd sooner consider lowering a turbo Crosstrek than buying a Crosstrek sedan. |
08-09-2022, 02:43 PM | #7498 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 67807
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region:
MAIC
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Hyundai offered the Kona N and afaik it sells ok for well over MSRP. An AWD Subaru version could only do better. But Subaru already considered and passed on it.
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08-09-2022, 02:44 PM | #7499 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 26859
Join Date: Oct 2002
Chapter/Region:
TXIC
Location: undisputed COMBAT! champion
Vehicle:of TXIC I also like (oYo)!!!! |
yeah, a compact car has the smallest margins and also is the least desirable type on lots.
consider as well that it is FAR cheaper for a manufacturer to meet the regulations that classify a vehicle as a truck (so as to have less stringent CAFE regulations) than it is to sell a car that complies with higher CAFE expectations. CAFE distinction between cars and trucks is being made a mockery by manufacturers. if the government would grow a pair and get rid of the distinction between cars/trucks for fuel economy ratings, magically, small cars would be pushed by manufacturers again, even considering they are low margin, and low volume, they'd have no choice but to do it so as to meet regulations. |
08-09-2022, 03:01 PM | #7500 |
Scooby Guru
Member#: 377200
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Somewhere north of south
Vehicle:21 Supra 3.0 MSM |
Small cars also have taken a big hit due to the pandemic. Manufacturers only have so many chips/supplies and allocated those towards the higher profit vehicles.
Can't blame them, it's a business and they have to maximize profits or lose their jobs. And yes, CAFE is way to easy to skirt around. |
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