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Old 11-14-2006, 12:56 AM   #76
bcblues
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I have not tried to tune for a pure meth squirt, but I have heard that it is more difficult to hit target AFRs. With 50-50, I have found ot quite easy, except for the weirdness that I see once in a while when going from steady throttle stoich to acceleration, where I sometimes see a lean environment with one of my maps (and I can't figure out why).

BTW, this is a great thread, thanks for the input Hippy.
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Old 11-16-2006, 06:52 AM   #77
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I seen no mention of running HEET as a source of Methanol. I've been running 50/50 HEET/distilled water for over a yr now w/ excellent results. Its costs me ~$3 gallon for the mix. HEET is 99% pure methanol.

Jeremy
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Old 11-17-2006, 06:56 PM   #78
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Default Heet

I've been using a mixture of 2 bottles of HEET per gallon of winter windshield fluid in my Mustang for a couple years. Works great. I just bought my Forester XT so I've been thinking of adding the injection kit as a first mod. Thinking of injected into the outlet plenum of the stock IC. Anyone try this location. I assume the housing is thick enough to get decent threads into it. anyone know?
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Old 11-18-2006, 12:44 AM   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kkimbal3 View Post
I just bought my Forester XT so I've been thinking of adding the injection kit as a first mod. Thinking of injected into the outlet plenum of the stock IC. Anyone try this location. I assume the housing is thick enough to get decent threads into it. anyone know?
I see no benefit of running injection as a first mod, at least w/o EM anyways. A TBE & uppipe along w/ EM is my recommendation. I use the location you suggested on a Hyperflow TMIC, other do as well.

Jeremy
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Old 11-20-2006, 06:34 PM   #80
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i agree, running WI or AI as a first mod would not be nearly as beneficial as EM.

Im about to get a stage 2 snow kit.

this is just my thoughts but H2O when heated above 212F breaks down to a gas form and also creats more Oxygen in the cylender while coolling at the same time. This could be a good reason that 100% water and 50/50 show little differance. Course IDK. but meby this could explain Hippys theories...
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Old 11-23-2006, 01:13 AM   #81
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another noob question here.
I've been considering more power (from standard stage 2 protuned wrx setup) via either a td05-16g or vf39. both of those solutions seem to increase lag a bit and sacrifice low end for top end. realistically that isn't going to suit my daily driving situation. now i've been reading many alc/meth/h2o injection threads and think this is a great way to go.

now for the question. most of the kits seem to be triggered by boost pressure, which i think is slightly not optimal. is there anyway to trigger injection based on throttle position AND boost pressure? example, cruising in 2nd gear at say 35mph and then decide to get on it. it takes a bit of rpm for the boost to hit high enough psi to trigger the meth, but if throttle position was used, then i could up timing sooner and get rid of any lagginess. am i on crack??

Last edited by humara; 11-23-2006 at 01:13 AM. Reason: ? mark
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Old 11-24-2006, 05:45 PM   #82
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No you are not on crack. There are other ways to trigger. Some company's use a MAF/MAP varible controller. Snow Performance has this alternative to boost pressure. They also have boost pressure varible controller. But, boost pressure trigger is the easiest way I can think of to trigger. It takes a lot of the guess work out. Plus the time when you need alky/meth is under boost with advanced timing, and higher boost. You car when tuned right should only need it when on boost. When cruising off throttle, or partial throttle in vacumm, or light boost <6 lbs you shouldn't need it. Your car will be tuned like normal under these engine loads. But once you hit a certain boost level and the alky/ system turns on your tuner should start to advance timing on your timing map as pressure increases. He will also start to take fuel away to make the AFR's right with the alky injection. You can look around at other manufactures and see if they use some sort of MAF system also, but boost is easy, and easy to tune for. You can also have a UTEC do it with the spare solenoid, but you said you we're going to pro-tune. I don't really recommend switching to UTEC because it can run a alky system. I want to dump my UTEC soon, and go ACCESS port.

DP
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Old 11-25-2006, 07:59 PM   #83
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Yes you're on crack. I just wanted to say that. Imo you will not notice much lagginess with either of the turbos you mentioned(especially the vf39). On top of that, most of the injection kits out are not high tech enough to do what you want optimally at low boost and rpms without sacrificing effectiveness uptop. Ie-You could end up getting what you want(the injection turning on at low boost and rpm), and either lose power from there being too much injection, or sacrifice an 15hp above 5000rpm to get 3hp below 3000rpm. What I'm trying to say is, to get what you want to work the way you want, it will take a lot more planning then figuring out how to turn the injection on when you want it. At the same time, why worry about the lagginess of your turbo b4 you see how laggy it is? You might not want to put the effort into fixing the problem once you find that it's not a problem?

peace

Last edited by hippy; 11-25-2006 at 08:09 PM.
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Old 11-25-2006, 10:23 PM   #84
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Also IMO a VF39 isn't a laggy turbo. I have a VF22 with my tune on water injection, my spool is almost like driving a stock turbo WRX. An 18g wouldn't be much worse I don't think. Your engine can work way more efficient with WI, and provide more exhaust flow/combustion efficiency to spool the turbo.

DP
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Old 11-25-2006, 10:30 PM   #85
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I was tuned on 50/50 water and vp racing methanol.. im starting to run out of the meth. Ive hered about using HEET but i am skeptical about how well it will run. ive herd its 99% meth but that 1% may make a difference? Also im wondering if the vp meth has any other differences thent he HEET methanol.?
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Old 11-26-2006, 12:29 AM   #86
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I ran on heet when I first started running water meth. It works fine. Just make sure you get the HEET brand in the yellow bottle. Some of the generic companies don't use the same formula as heet. Don't use the red bottle. It has a different chemical.

DP
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Old 12-31-2006, 12:39 PM   #87
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Default Methanol First

Quote:
Originally Posted by testes1010 View Post
I see no benefit of running injection as a first mod, at least w/o EM anyways. A TBE & uppipe along w/ EM is my recommendation. I use the location you suggested on a Hyperflow TMIC, other do as well.

Jeremy
I was mostly thinking of injecting first to prepare for better things to come.

I think I'm going to get a STI intercooler and install the injection nozzle at the same time. Seems like it would be easier to install the nozzle into metal than plastic.
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Old 01-01-2007, 11:48 AM   #88
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Yes, I think it would be far easier to install in metal. I also think that you should wait to begin using the system until you get EM so you can retune your fueling. You could always install the system and just not use it. Stock fueling is already rich. If you inject, it will be even richer, and probably cost you some HP.
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Old 02-02-2007, 03:44 PM   #89
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anywhere is it mentioned benefits or otherwise going 50/50 meth/alky vs. h20/alky??
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Old 02-18-2007, 06:51 PM   #90
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Very nice information. Anyone do a picture by picture install of the SMC?
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Old 02-19-2007, 01:39 AM   #91
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Great thread here. The straight water thing is interesting, if a little impractical for those of us in the Great White North.
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Old 02-19-2007, 03:08 AM   #92
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I like all the talk of theory but here are some real world results. See post #1225:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...934903&page=49

Strangely, pure water injection proved relatively nominal gains. Water/meth is where it's at.
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Old 02-19-2007, 03:26 AM   #93
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Here's my results. pump gas vs. water/meth.

50/50 water/meth...M1 from vp racing fuels.

my chart is also on the perrin website.

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Old 02-19-2007, 05:14 AM   #94
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRXRallyBlue View Post
I like all the talk of theory but here are some real world results. See post #1225:

http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/show...934903&page=49

Strangely, pure water injection proved relatively nominal gains. Water/meth is where it's at.
They stated that they were not trying to max out the water tune. They also mentioned nothing about jetting the injection system for water only. Could there be more in there?
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Old 02-19-2007, 05:30 AM   #95
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Yes... it'd be good if Tim or Mick were to clarify here how much they pushed the H20-only tune on the dyno that day.
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Old 02-19-2007, 05:51 AM   #96
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Here are some comparisons from the 02-10-2007 tune on my car (mod list in post #2):

92 pump vs. 50% water / 50% meth
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Old 02-19-2007, 05:53 AM   #97
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Water only vs. 50/50
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Old 02-19-2007, 11:20 AM   #98
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dumb question, but it has to be distilled water, correct??
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Old 02-19-2007, 12:23 PM   #99
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I have a basic Coolingmist kit in my 2002 wrx wagon and distilled water supposedly has no minerals (calcium, lime deposits) that can clog-up the tiny injector/sprayers common to most kits. Distilled water is cheap and plentiful, 68 cents a gallon at Wal-mart. It's not worth running tap water considering the damage that can be done if the injectors clog-up. You might be able to run tap water in case of an emergency, but over the long haul it's a bad idea.

Last edited by El Supremo; 02-20-2007 at 04:28 PM.
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Old 02-19-2007, 06:45 PM   #100
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I always use distilled water but my shop says the stuff from the tap is fine.

Last edited by ka mano; 02-19-2007 at 07:27 PM.
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