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Old 09-10-2003, 03:18 PM   #26
Janq
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Yeah, but non Subaru /STi fans won't & don't know about the history. Frankly I wish 'RICEB0Y.com', F&F and 2F2F were never released.

- Janq
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Old 09-10-2003, 03:34 PM   #27
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Wink ...awaiting special edition STi...

My guess is that Subaru will release a "limited edition" STi model with a CD changer, floormats, autodimming mirror, different wing, and possibly different wheels and a sunroof to boost sales in the next year or so.

...It's a tactic used by every auto manufacturer to boost sales (temporarily) for a model. As examples, Chrysler is planning on "platinum" edition models of the PT Cruiser as well as their minivan (redesign coming soon), 300M, and a couple other models. Even Honda has a limited edition Accord out now....as a general rule, if Honda is running limited edition models, sales must be down.

...only time will tell...
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Old 09-10-2003, 03:49 PM   #28
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I couldnt care less if the car is selling. I am not going to listen to dealers complain that their units are not selling when you cant even take a damn test drive.
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Old 09-10-2003, 03:56 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally posted by CBoldman
I couldnt care less if the car is selling. I am not going to listen to dealers complain that their units are not selling when you cant even take a damn test drive.
So what, I didn't test drive, don't need to test drive, you should know what the car can do already if you're really interested in the car. Most people didn't get to test drive ITRs before they buy them. It's not like you can test the car on the race track anyway, so what's the point.
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Old 09-10-2003, 03:56 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by CBoldman
I couldnt care less if the car is selling. I am not going to listen to dealers complain that their units are not selling when you cant even take a damn test drive.
Would you buy an STi that had been taken on a test drive?
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Old 09-10-2003, 04:26 PM   #31
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Default Re: STi's not selling well

Quote:
Originally posted by GSXR
About a month and a half ago, if I wanted one I was on a waiting list. I checked a week ago and there were 25 available with 100 miles of me with no waiting list. I talked to one dealer and they had 7 in stock. He mentioned that many people that were on their waiting list didn't pick up the car when they were called. Is demand for these cars drying up that fast?

I was offered MSRP but I'm waiting for a better deal. I know I can get an Evo or 350Z for less than MSRP now. I'm sure it'll just be soon when the STi's will be crowding the lots and going for less.
I got mine for $1575 below MSRP : )

-st
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Old 09-10-2003, 04:31 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by DJDaizzy


So what, I didn't test drive, don't need to test drive, you should know what the car can do already if you're really interested in the car. Most people didn't get to test drive ITRs before they buy them. It's not like you can test the car on the race track anyway, so what's the point.
Sorry, but I have to agree with those that want a test drive. If you are going buy a car you should be able to test drive one, not everyone on the lot, but one needs to be provided for test drives. Now if it were some hand made collector car where only 1000 will be produced world-wide, I could understand. But it is a performance sedan. You should know if the performance is what it needs to be to satisfy you. I'm not saying you should be allowed to drift the car at 70mph, but a few emergency lane change manuevers, a few 5-80mph sprints, a 80-40 and 40-5 brake test should be provided, even if it is a salesman that does the driving. But most people don't like to buy just on what the company and magazines say, especially when there are a variety of other cars that also suit them.

I didn't test drive the STi before buying it, but I didn't have too, I knew I wanted it, since I had a modified WRX prior to the STi purchase. I would not have purchased and Evo blindly, but having test driven it, I think it is a great car and I would buy it if there were no STi or WRX. It's still a bit too flashy for me though. I thought I loved the 350Z until I test drove it (all alone). Now, I only like the way it looks and it's low body roll, that's about it. I would have been upset if I bought it without driving first.
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Old 09-10-2003, 04:41 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally posted by DJDaizzy


So what, I didn't test drive, don't need to test drive, you should know what the car can do already if you're really interested in the car. Most people didn't get to test drive ITRs before they buy them. It's not like you can test the car on the race track anyway, so what's the point.
I have to agree.

I wouldn't buy a test driven car unless there was none left (nowhere/ever) or I was gettng a really good deal.
I bought my car out of state 8 hrs. away (had to fly there) and I could have just test driven and walked away but the likelihood of me doing that was zero for all the effort, money & time I'd already spent. So no I did not test drive my car though I did ride in another owners prior and got a really good idea & feel for what it was. My car as delivered had 2 miles on it.

The STi is not a 300M or PT Cruiser or Accord or for that matter a WRX (dime a dozen and everywhere). Just as with Z06's, M3's, M5's (nearly impossible to get a test drive!), NSX's and other 'rare' vehicles you kind of have to already know what you're getting into as otherwise you most likely wouldn't even know what it is in the first place.

As for the 'Limited Edition' model proposition, why would they add all that garbage (fat) to make it even more expensive (and less of a deal compared to the M3) and slower (from the weight)? That again makes no business sense. The WRX has all that junk available as does the Infiniti G35 Coupe & Sedan.
Think about it. Subaru is _tiny_ and can't afford to throw money down the tubes like DaimlerChrysler or the 'Big Three' can and do.

As for dealers toward the STi, they aren't complaining at all as the STi is bringing in tons of loor traffic. I can attest to that personally. In the last 60 days everyone I know (family, close friends, neighbors & employees) has had a ride in my car and as such they have shown a sudden interest in Subaru. Now all these people have known that I've been a Suabru owner & fan for the past 13 years having cycled through many Subies. None have gotten excited about any of my cars (not even the SVX!) up until I got my STi.

Since I got my STi my father in-law who has always bought used cars for the past _four decades_ (!) and has stuck to European & British junk (Saab & Rover) as well as a VW (Cabriolet) and a Jeep (Cherokee) suddenly decided he was going to get rid of his aged '89 Saab 900 (a major POS) and he contacted my salesperson at Van Bortel (5hr drive away!) and bought a brand new fully loaded '04 Legacy GT AWD 5sp. You can imagine the shock my wife & sister in law had as they always begged their dad to get a new car when they were young but their pleas fell on deaf ears. He drives my STi around for 15 minutes while here on vacation 5 weeks ago and 3 weeks later he buys a Subaru. He told me that he hadn't even realized that I'd also owned a Legacy for the past 11 years.

Then I give a ride to my teammmate from paintball who owns SUV's (tows horses) and boom, last Monday he e-mails me saying he's done some research and wants to get a WRX. Totally out of left field. He picked it up last night locally as they offered a deal that my gal at Van Bortel told him wasn't worth travelling for ($100 over invoice).

I gave my sister in-laws neighbor a ride in my STi in July just days after picking it up to go attend the MachV open house and dude falls in love. I drop him off at home that night only to hear three weeks later that he hasn't stopped talking about my car to anyone that will listen. He then goes out and gets rid of his beloved MR2 and orders an RX-8 thinking it will be just as cool but comes with a radio & what not. He gets the car two weeks ago and the next day is at my house from the dealer to show it to me. So he offers to swap cars for a test drive and I like his comfort okay fine (nice radio) but he again effuses over my power & torque. The last thing he said when I last saw him was; "That car is amazing". FFW to last week and I hear from my sister in-law that he's thinking of giving the car back to Mazda due to their offer and replacing it with an STi!

I have more stories to tell (like the teen brothers I play paintball with who together bought a Forester 2.5 XT after going for a ride in my car) but you get my point. The STi is doing its job well and Subie dealers are not complaining in the least, while their neighbors suffer.

Oh, BTW my father in-law got his first ticket Tuesday night.
He was _racing_ my mother in-law on some back road in his Legacy GT against her '97 Saab 9000 (also a POS) and a cop just happened to be coming the opposite way on a two lane highway. He pulled them both over and gave them both tickets for speeding. My father in-law turned 65 on 8/26 and my mother in-law turned 47 on 8/19 (I turned 33 on 8/25 ).
They call to tell my wife & I the story and they both went on and on about how much fun the Legacy is (no duh!) and they love the AWD "feel" and that they can't wait for the snow to come (they live in Western Mass. where a foot of snow is normal). My father in law though keps remarking that his car doesn't have the "raw power" of my car but he's very happy. I'd told him to wait until next spring for the 'B4' but he got psyched and wanted a Subie now/today.

One last item...
The STi is the 11th or 12th car I've procured for my personal use since buying my first car (used) 16 years ago. It is the only car I have ever bought without having an actual test drive. Typically I test drive a car four or five times for long rides before I drop coins on it.

- Janq

Last edited by Janq; 09-10-2003 at 04:46 PM.
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Old 09-10-2003, 04:43 PM   #34
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I find it hard to believe that if you put your money on the table, were approved for credit, and showed that you were seriously interested in an STi, you wouldn't be able to take one out on a short test drive.

I was on a long waiting list for an S2000 before I bought my WRX. Those cars were rare as hell back than and selling for a good premium. Even then I was told I would be given a short test drive in my car when it arrived before I agreed to anything.

Unfortunately, with the aforementioned economic downturn, by the time my S2000 came in I couldn't afford it. Go figure! Oh well
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Old 09-10-2003, 04:52 PM   #35
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Toffman - You got the wing right, but none of the previous version STis had the large scoop. I would have preferred the smaller scoop, with the black hood vents on either side. I think it looks much better.

And if they had to put a big wing on, why did they take two steps backwards, and not give us the adjustable 22b wing?
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Old 09-10-2003, 04:56 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally posted by TimStevens
I find it hard to believe that if you put your money on the table, were approved for credit, and showed that you were seriously interested in an STi, you wouldn't be able to take one out on a short test drive.

I was on a long waiting list for an S2000 before I bought my WRX. Those cars were rare as hell back than and selling for a good premium. Even then I was told I would be given a short test drive in my car when it arrived before I agreed to anything.

Unfortunately, with the aforementioned economic downturn, by the time my S2000 came in I couldn't afford it. Go figure! Oh well
Thats what low production numbers on a hot & unsual car will get ya!

Just ask any owner of an M3 w/SMG, M5, S8, A4 Avant, S4 or Allroad, or EVO owner and they will tell you the same.

A bit off topic but notice how there is _zero_ talk about the Volvo S70R & V70R? Before they arrived in June folks were saying they were viable alternatives to the STi and other such nonsense. Now they hav ebeen on the streets for 90 days and I've yet to see on in my area which is a major market and none of those prior folks have had a word to say about them as of late.
Wonder why that is? I bet you can get test drives of those though anytime you want.

- Janq
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Old 09-10-2003, 05:02 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by VVVV
...And if they had to put a big wing on, why did they take two steps backwards, and not give us the adjustable 22b wing?
Maybe it could be due to cost of production, effective functionality and weight?

A local guy (Kanos WRX) has one on his WRX and it looks just like mine (STi) only the airfoil can adjust upward several degrees. How many folks have the equipment and where with all to set it up correctly? I'd doubt many. I'd say the stock STi wing is more than good enough without the adjustability.

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Old 09-10-2003, 05:04 PM   #38
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Default It's a Love-Hate thing...

I kind of love the STi - I love it's power and nimbleness. I hate the big scoop and wing. Also don't like the drivetrain and tire noise, which does however obviate the need for a stereo.

I agree with VVVV that the people SOA has marketed this car to are largely completely unable to do more than drool on their Nikes and Vans as they tool by on their skateboards. (Oh, okay, maybe some of them have Civics.)

I got a solo test drive from the same dealer who sold me my WRX Wagon. I really wanted to be sold on the STi, but it's just not there. The scoop and wing are ridiculous, and I like to enjoy a decent sound system in my vehicles. It's too bad, 'cause SOA may really take a big financial hit on this - and that means future risky introductions may not happen.

I'd like in the next year or two for SOA to try to put together a real AWD GT car that a grown-up would not be afraid to show up at work in. Maybe if they'd put out an STi wagon, lose the big scoop and some of the stickers, then I'd buy it.
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Old 09-10-2003, 05:09 PM   #39
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Ya know,the average American buyer(esp.plus 30 grand) is very educated in there auto purchase and the sti has not had a good start as far problems per 100.The ping
did not help things either.Also,fuel mileage is back on the no.5 reason why a buyer choices aother vehicle over his first choice.So there is alot of factors why they are not moving.
Subaru knew from the start how this would
go down(cost,insurance,age group,practicality,etc) thats why there is only so many planned per year.But there staying for along time,GM just gave the wrx
to saab(did you see the pictures yet),do not
expect the key on the floor though!!!Matt
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Old 09-10-2003, 05:22 PM   #40
Janq
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Default Re: It's a Love-Hate thing...

Quote:
Originally posted by WRC-Go
I kind of love the STi - I love it's power and nimbleness. I hate the big scoop and wing. Also don't like the drivetrain and tire noise, which does however obviate the need for a stereo.

I agree with VVVV that the people SOA has marketed this car to are largely completely unable to do more than drool on their Nikes and Vans as they tool by on their skateboards. (Oh, okay, maybe some of them have Civics.)

I got a solo test drive from the same dealer who sold me my WRX Wagon. I really wanted to be sold on the STi, but it's just not there. The scoop and wing are ridiculous, and I like to enjoy a decent sound system in my vehicles. It's too bad, 'cause SOA may really take a big financial hit on this - and that means future risky introductions may not happen.

I'd like in the next year or two for SOA to try to put together a real AWD GT car that a grown-up would not be afraid to show up at work in. Maybe if they'd put out an STi wagon, lose the big scoop and some of the stickers, then I'd buy it.
A full 6 disc stereo is an avialble 'option' sold & installed by the dealer, as are the mats too, if you really want/need them.

The "grown-up" version will be here next spring in the form of the 'B4' badged for NA sale as the all new Legacy & 'Legacy GT' available in multiple colors (including red), factory installed radios, quiet interiors and either a sporty sedan or a sporty wagon format.

The STi will not hurt sales, its helping.
Obviously its not a cloth cut for everyone.

I personally like mine without a radio which is how it will stay for the forseable future and I love that I can hear _everything_ including even the IC cooler pump when its in use.

As an owner I have zero complaints other than that I often feel a little silly/immature/youthful when I drive the car amongst my serious/mature/old n' slow friends. But hey this car is like Viagra for the soul. It's like dating Pam Anderson or J-Lo. Yeah, everybody's going to wonder what you're thinking about but also they always ask "How's it run!?".

- Janq who's owned Nike's since the days of the 'Waffle Racer'
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Old 09-10-2003, 05:26 PM   #41
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I waited for the STi since Jan of this year.... but end up with an
EVO instead...

To me, both cars have enough performance for me... it was the
price of EVO that win me over...

I was able to get $500 over invoice for EVO... but all Subaru
dealers want at least $2500 over msrp.... and even at msrp..
there's still almost $3000 diff between the two... Not worth
the money and wait, IMO...
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Old 09-10-2003, 05:30 PM   #42
Janq
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Quote:
Originally posted by kb3drfsti
Ya know,the average American buyer(esp.plus 30 grand) is very educated in there auto purchase and the sti has not had a good start as far problems per 100.The ping
did not help things either.Also,fuel mileage is back on the no.5 reason why a buyer choices aother vehicle over his first choice.So there is alot of factors why they are not moving.
Subaru knew from the start how this would
go down(cost,insurance,age group,practicality,etc) thats why there is only so many planned per year.But there staying for along time,GM just gave the wrx
to saab(did you see the pictures yet),do not
expect the key on the floor though!!!Matt
What problems?
The ping/detonation issue has affected only about 12-15% of the units on the road. Thats not a big deal, and it was addressed very quickly. A problem is like GM's most recent recall of an entire product line (!00%) to resolve an electrical problem that could result in your car catching fire (!). A bit of ping or your brand new car catching on fire. I'd take ping any day.

The WRX injection into Saab will do nicely.
I can't wait to see how badly GM muffs it.

STi's are moving fine off dealer floors.
Most are sold out of their allocations for the year.

- Janq
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Old 09-10-2003, 05:37 PM   #43
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Default Re: Re: It's a Love-Hate thing...

Quote:
Originally posted by Janq


A full 6 disc stereo is an avialble 'option' sold & installed by the dealer, as are the mats too, if you really want/need them.
As an owner I have zero complaints other than that I often feel a little silly/immature/youthful when I drive the car amongst my serious/mature/old n' slow friends. But hey this car is like Viagra for the soul.
I've got over 2K in audio gear in my Wagon. (Edit: the nuances of the sound it produces would be lost in an STi - that's the point)


If you like the "vigor" the STi gives you, you really should try a Vette.

Last edited by WRC-Go; 09-10-2003 at 05:43 PM.
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Old 09-10-2003, 05:48 PM   #44
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Default Re: Re: Re: It's a Love-Hate thing...

Quote:
Originally posted by WRC-Go


I've got over 2K in audio gear in my Wagon.

If you like the "vigor" the STi gives you, you really should try a Vette.
I appreciate vets but I've never been able to get excited about one though I've driven many and lots of friends that own various models of them.

BenHayat got a sweet deal on a barely used Z06 a few months back and in lieu of an STi and hes been strongly encouraging me to try one out. I've seen a few Z06's on the road and those mofo's are very quick & fast but still I just can't get excited about spending $50K+ on a GM product. Maybe an SUV like an H1 or Suburban (Yukon XL) but just not a 'Vette, at least not yet.

I will be going to test drive one though next month once my work & weekend schedule eases up a bit. What I really wanted and had planned to buy was an E39 M5. But once the economy dipped I decided to bolt the cupboards and ride it out to see what happens. As such I went with my second choice as the STi offered same/better performance in granted a more raucous and less refined package. My other options were a used Viper GTS 'ACR', Audi S6 or S8 , but I went Subau/STi for '3.5' season driveability (Viper) and a much more reasonable cost of ownership (Viper, S6 & S8).

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Old 09-10-2003, 06:00 PM   #45
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Well, good luck with your test drive
Gotta say though, owning both, if you don't need a back seat (or can afford a second, weekends, car) the Vette, especially a Z06, is incredibly choice! The STi I drove was fast, but not even in the same league as my Vette.
Course the STi will smoke the Vette off road or in the rain.

Edit: Oh, I forgot, don't neglect the used market - Vette owners take real good care of their machines and the market has hit bottom lately. I've seen Z06's (2002) with less than 10K miles going for under 40K.
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Old 09-10-2003, 06:24 PM   #46
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Quote:
Originally posted by WRC-Go
Well, good luck with your test drive
Gotta say though, owning both, if you don't need a back seat (or can afford a second, weekends, car) the Vette, especially a Z06, is incredibly choice! The STi I drove was fast, but not even in the same league as my Vette.
Course the STi will smoke the Vette off road or in the rain.

Edit: Oh, I forgot, don't neglect the used market - Vette owners take real good care of their machines and the market has hit bottom lately. I've seen Z06's (2002) with less than 10K miles going for under 40K.
Yep, the STi is actually my third car and pretty much I only drive it at night or on the weekend. My intention is to autocross it and use it for TSD events. I use my Legacy as my commuter/winter car.

I don't really need a backseat but wanted one as I'm not really into coupes. I'm a nut for hot rod sedans & wagons (S6). That way when BabyJanq gets older she can go for rides with dad and then we both can go "Whheeee" and piss our pants in the corners. Really though the Vette just doesn't speak to me. It doesn't say 'Janq' if you know what I mean.

Vette's have always suffered in the used market, thats nothing new. It's just part of that great GM feeling with its genuine GM parts.

But seriously, thats how BenHayat came across his. I think he paid $38.5 for his and it was barely driven at all. A steal if ever there was one for what you get.
You know, I still get breathless though over the Viper, M5 and the looks/styling of the G35 Coupe (everyone here knows I was/am a nut for the 6MT version). One can never be totally satisfied. But for the cost of entry and what you get for the buck in the STi I have no complaints.

Last weekend though Mrs. Janq mentioned how she thought it might be fun to go boating along the Potomac and into Alexandria, VA, our favorite weekend haunt.

Uh oh....

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Old 09-10-2003, 06:32 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by DJDaizzy


So what, I didn't test drive, don't need to test drive, you should know what the car can do already if you're really interested in the car. Most people didn't get to test drive ITRs before they buy them. It's not like you can test the car on the race track anyway, so what's the point.
My comment was more gauged toward the general public, and not Subaru entusiasts like ourselves who stay up all night on message boards. Did you know that salesman use test drives as tactics to sell cars? Maybe a salesman can chime in here, but it is my understanding that they want to get you in it and sell you on it. Of course the STi is no Ford Escort, but if the car is sitting on the lot for 3 weeks it needs to be sold. Therefore I see conventional sales tactics should be put into place. Remember, not all who buy STi are members of the NASIOC. Look at my uncle, he knows nothing about cars, but that dosent stop him from throwing down his American Express for a new BMW 7. People who know nothign about cars still have money, and dealerships want it.

As for buying an STi that had been driven, of course I wouldnt buy it. But then again I wouldnt do a lot of things. I wouldnt buy one off the lot, I wouldnt let anyone at the dealership drive it without me in it. My point is that an STi with miles on it may stop me and you buying it, but one of the 7 STi owners in my town probably would not hesitate. But if the STi is not selling dealers should start trying to sell toward everyone and not just those who know what the car is cabable of from a spec sheet. This is of course if the dealership actually want to sell cars, and seeing how greedy most of them are I see this being the case.

As far as driving M3s and Z06s, yeah, I have test driven those right off the lot.

Sorry if my post is a little unclear, I just got back from the dentist and I am still a little hazy.....

Last edited by CBoldman; 09-10-2003 at 06:41 PM.
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Old 09-10-2003, 06:52 PM   #48
Oldnslow
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Default

Jang wrote"
"As an owner I have zero complaints other than that I often feel a little silly/immature/youthful when I drive the car amongst my serious/mature/OLDNSLOW friends...."

Listen, Jang, I may be OLDNSLOW, but I take offense when you call me "serious and mature"......
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Old 09-10-2003, 07:28 PM   #49
WRSport
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00 2.5RS Coupe
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Quote:
Originally posted by Janq


STi's are moving fine off dealer floors.
Most are sold out of their allocations for the year.

- Janq
What do you base this on?

I just randomly looked at various dealers inventory and there sure are a lot of STI's available.

Chris
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Old 09-10-2003, 07:45 PM   #50
mx_9
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Default Re: It's a Love-Hate thing...

Quote:
Originally posted by WRC-Go
I kind of love the STi - I love it's power and nimbleness. I hate the big scoop and wing. Also don't like the drivetrain and tire noise, which does however obviate the need for a stereo.

I agree with VVVV that the people SOA has marketed this car to are largely completely unable to do more than drool on their Nikes and Vans as they tool by on their skateboards. (Oh, okay, maybe some of them have Civics.)

I got a solo test drive from the same dealer who sold me my WRX Wagon. I really wanted to be sold on the STi, but it's just not there. The scoop and wing are ridiculous, and I like to enjoy a decent sound system in my vehicles. It's too bad, 'cause SOA may really take a big financial hit on this - and that means future risky introductions may not happen.

I'd like in the next year or two for SOA to try to put together a real AWD GT car that a grown-up would not be afraid to show up at work in. Maybe if they'd put out an STi wagon, lose the big scoop and some of the stickers, then I'd buy it.
Hmm, I'm a grown up at age 41. At work, I'll be parking mine near vipers, M3's, and even a Lamborghini. I'm sure as hell not afraid to show up at work. Maybe that's because there are a lot of peopl that know cars where I work. My point being that perhaps you should find another place to work

As for decent sound systems, I plan on putting $2k into my system and will have a very nice one at that.
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