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Old 03-13-2003, 06:12 PM   #26
04-STI
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I did exactly as others have mentioned and e-mailed every dealer in the VA, MD, and PA area looking for a reputable dealership who would sell the car for MSRP. I additionally asked how many orders they had already taken as it would do no good to be 11 or 12 on a list. I located three who had reasonably short lists who agreed to take a deposit and sell for MSRP. Of the three I chose the one closest to my home (still 75 miles away) who appeared to have sufficient volume and customer satisfaction levels to be able to deliver a car. Amazing how many claimed that "they" were the largest volume Subaru dealer in the Mid-Alantic region. Anyway, I placed a $500.00 deposit and got a written factory order for a Silver/Anthracite (4JJ) that specifies MSRP + Tax, Title, and License fees signed by the sales manager stating that I am the third customer on the STi list. No indications yet that it will be anything other than what was promised. I went through the same process for an Evo and found a dealer who had a Black unit scheduled as allocated stock that I could reserve for MSRP with a deposit of $1,000.00. I placed the deposit and again got a written purchase order signed by the sales manager for MSRP + TT&L. I was his second order and would take delivery of his first EVO as the first customer placed a factory order for a different color and accessory package. BTW, I cancelled that order two days ago after much agony trying to decide which car I ultimately wanted. Obviously the STi came out on top. (There is still a white A00 EVO available from a buyer in MA who has to back out of the sale due to grad school. Written contract from the dealer with VIN# and final delivered price in writing for MSRP +TT&L. Car scheduled to ship on 21 Mar). "If you are willing to do sufficient research, are willing to travel (that $400.00 plane ticket mentioned earlier) and do it EARLY enough, there are reputable dealers who will provide an honest deal. I would imagine that we are currently beyond the point of no return for an early delivery but you can still get one for MSRP.
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Old 03-13-2003, 06:30 PM   #27
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Well after reading all the crappy news on this page I called my Canadian dealer a couple minutes ago to see what he could do for me. I should be receiving an email today and I'll let you know. He treated me more than fair on my '02 WRX and I would give him nothing short of the highest reccomendation to you all.

I'll keep you posted - maybe you're interested in a road trip?
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Old 03-13-2003, 08:06 PM   #28
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Hey I think somebody should start a website to knock off of this thread with a list of states in alphabetical order with the dealership listings.
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Old 03-14-2003, 09:01 AM   #29
redrex3
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This type of zh!t is definately taking the fun out of the arrival of the STi. A lot of us are willing to spend MSRP, what ever tha may be, and even that is a stretch for many of us, but doable. Adding $5k lends to thoughs that are fortunate enough to have such funds with out sacrifice, and to those that absolutely must have it even if it means using washable diapers on his infant and eating bologna everyday.

It's a sad day when we realize that our local dealers don't give a flip about our passed consistant patronage. :They'd rather loose your respect than loose a one-time-right-now $5000

respect= giving them all of your service work, always buying cars from them, always referring them. Respect is much more $$$$ than $5000. Some dealerships are too short minded to think that way. That's unfortunate for them and us.
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Old 03-14-2003, 01:13 PM   #30
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If it's a supply-demand issue then why doesn't everyone demand either MSRP or lower?

And Bill Kolb Subaru is just bad news...read my post in the dealer forum.

Greedy bastiches!

Peace,
Oqui
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Old 03-14-2003, 11:29 PM   #31
wrx2.0 555
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Well, I have two things---

1. Subaru originally planned only 10k WRX's for the first year and they sold that many in the first 6 months.

2. The STI was origianlly said to be 265hp. (we now know thats not true, and so does Mitsubishi )

My Point - They will probably make more than what they are saying they will.
Around here, anyway, there was a waiting list on the WRX, but that didnt last long and there were quickly more than dealers could sell. I know the STI is special, but considering how long STI models have been avail. overseas, I think it will turn out like the WRX's within the first year.


Useless comment - I can wait 6 months, pay MSRP for an STI, have the same exact car as the guy #1 on the list, but a payment of $100-$200 less per month and still be one of the only people in my city to have one.
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Old 03-15-2003, 01:09 PM   #32
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Default Atlanta STI @ MSRP yes!

Larry Colbert at Royal Subaru will sell you an STI @ MSRP.
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Old 03-15-2003, 06:00 PM   #33
silvercharged
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Quote:
Originally posted by jaypride
I just got this email reply from Bill Kolb Subaru in New York
"
Thats right. As much as we want, and good luck getting on a list to find one, then when you can't find one, I'll have it.


-------Original Message ------
So you'll be marking them up pretty much as much as you
feel like that day then? Unless you can do it for MSRP or
less, I will find someone else. Thanks,
Jay
Send a copy of that E-mail to Subaru of America and see who has the last laugh.....
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Old 03-15-2003, 06:07 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally posted by wrx2.0 555
Well, I have two things---

1. Subaru originally planned only 10k WRX's for the first year and they sold that many in the first 6 months.
To further add to this, I bought my WRX right in the middle of the "1st year" frenzy, not only because I wanted one, but my other car blew it's trans and I had to buy something else...

My local dealer sold it to me on the Subaru VIP program for cost, and were happy to do it, although they had every right, according to Subaru, not to honor the VIP program on such a "hot" model.

A sold car is always better than one still sitting on the lot....

When that Sti sits on the lot long enough, and they've paid enough floor plan interest on it, they'll be glad to "get rid of it"

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Old 03-15-2003, 06:27 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by silvercharged


Send a copy of that E-mail to Subaru of America and see who has the last laugh.....
Anybody have an address for me to forward it to?
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Old 03-15-2003, 07:32 PM   #36
silvercharged
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Mr. T.K. Saito,
Chairman, President & Chief Executive Officer
Subaru of America, Inc.
Subaru Plaza
P O Box 6000
Cherry Hill, N.J. 08024-6000
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Old 03-17-2003, 10:29 AM   #37
Malphie
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I have confirmed with my dealership. I am first on the list and am getting mine for $500 UNDER MSRP. it pays to have a good relationship with the dealer and also to be sponsored by them for Autocross

My sales rep also told me that initial orders would most likely be $1000 - $1500 over MSRP.
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Old 03-17-2003, 11:05 AM   #38
redrex3
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I'll have to see it to believe it. Be sure to scan and post your receipt when you get it, blacking out person information of course.
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Old 03-17-2003, 01:55 PM   #39
jackwrx
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Can you typically get a loan for 40K on a 35K car? What about insurance? If you wreck a 35K car for which you paid 40K, does the insurance company only pay you back for their value of the car.

Sounds like quite a gamble or even impossible for those of us who would have to finance the majority of the amount paid.
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Old 03-17-2003, 02:47 PM   #40
Malphie
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Quote:
Originally posted by redrex3
I'll have to see it to believe it. Be sure to scan and post your receipt when you get it, blacking out person information of course.
I'll gladly post this info to prove that not all dealers are crooks (thank God).
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Old 03-17-2003, 04:14 PM   #41
ObsidianRS
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Quote:
Originally posted by silvercharged
Send a copy of that E-mail to Subaru of America and see who has the last laugh.....
SoA has no control over the price that a dealer charges for their cars. SoA owns no dealerships; they are all franchises. This means a dealership may charge $100k for every car if they wish and SoA will say nothing. Of course, that dealership wouldn't sell any cars and would be out of business pretty quick.
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Old 03-18-2003, 09:25 AM   #42
Blink_32
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Quote:
Originally posted by jackwrx
Can you typically get a loan for 40K on a 35K car?
That I do not know. But I would assume that since its a new car, u can get a loan for whatever your paying for it within reason. But I do know on used cars a financial institution will only give you a set maximum depending on the worth of the car.

Quote:
What about insurance? If you wreck a 35K car for which you paid 40K, does the insurance company only pay you back for their value of the car.
Yes, u only get paid back the value of the car. And even then, if it happens soon after purchasing (i can't remember if its within the first 6 months or 1 year, whatever that inital depreciation time is) you get actual value, and not what you just paid for the car regardless of if u paid invoice, msrp or msrp +. Working off the info that the minute u drive it off the lot you instantly lose 25%-30% (or whatever) of the value of the care u just purchased. The only way you can avoid recieving less than what you paid is if you purchase Gap Insurance to make up the difference.
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Old 03-18-2003, 09:36 AM   #43
ObsidianRS
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Quote:
Originally posted by jackwrx
Can you typically get a loan for 40K on a 35K car?
I seriously doubt it! The reason: try getting a 30k loan for a 30k car. Most likely won't happen.

That's what the down payment is for. For a 30k car they may want at least a 3k down payment, ie, giving you a 27k loan on a 30k car. This is to cover themselves for depreciation of driving the car off the lot. So if it gets totalled next month they don't lose money.

Some places may not need a downpayment (I've never heard of them except through manufacturer's loans) but the interest rates would most likely be higher.

I really doubt a bank would like to give you more money than the car is worth. Seriously doubt it.

So, the point is, if you are going to pay 5k over sticker, prepare for a very high downpayment to get a loan.
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Old 03-18-2003, 11:20 AM   #44
silvercharged
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Quote:
Originally posted by ObsidianRS


SoA has no control over the price that a dealer charges for their cars. SoA owns no dealerships; they are all franchises. This means a dealership may charge $100k for every car if they wish and SoA will say nothing. Of course, that dealership wouldn't sell any cars and would be out of business pretty quick.

Agreed....but I was thinking more on the customer relation side of it......With such a smug attitude, I think Subaru would have something to say to that dealership, if not that particular salesman..

As you say, it's a franchise, and you don't want to be pissing off the franchisor's customers...
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Old 03-18-2003, 01:03 PM   #45
Blink_32
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Quote:
Originally posted by ObsidianRS
That's what the down payment is for. For a 30k car they may want at least a 3k down payment, ie, giving you a 27k loan on a 30k car. This is to cover themselves for depreciation of driving the car off the lot. So if it gets totalled next month they don't lose money.
That's a little skewed in my opinion. No matter what happens in the first few months, if the car is totaled, its the owners problem to cough up the difference between what the insurance pays and whats left on the car, not the financial institution who has the lien. So they lose no money. And to cover that the consumer can purchase GAP insurance for those first few months. And if the answer to that is "what if they skip out on paying, etc etc etc", thats what collection agencies are for and that risk exists in any credit line already regardless of the amount owed.

By your example everyone has to pay X% of anything they have to finance to make up for depreciation. If that were true then there would be no such thing as GAP insurance for cars or PMI insurance for homes. Getting a 30k loan on a car that costs 30k is as simple as how big of a credit risk are you. Plus, I think it should be looked at from this angle. MSRP is just that, MSRP. Used cars are easy for a financial institution to judge, new cars are a little different ball game. If I roll into a dealership and end up striking a deal for sticker at 35k and you go to the same place, have a hookup and haggle and get the same car for 30k even. Now, assuming all things equal at the same financial institution, will the bank screw me because I'm paying 5k more than you for the same car? Doubt it. They don't know if I bought a triple extended warranty, got that optional "rust proof undercoating", maybe I rolled in a special dealer service plan with oil changes for 10 years. Maybe I'm just a sucker.

Now, i'm not saying that some bank will give you a loan for 50k on a 30k car, but thats not impossible I guess, if GAP insurance will cover it then who cares right? To me that seems excessive and wouldn't be in a financial institutions best interests, hell, maybe there is a rule on the books that says no more than X% over msrp will be added on. But there would have to be lieniency and discretion on the institution's side as to how much $$$ they are willing to give out.
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Old 03-18-2003, 04:20 PM   #46
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I'll give you that I'm talking in extremes and there are other points

But the downpaymet does make the bank more comfortable. When you get a car loan, they want to know the car you're getting and the downpayment. I guarantee you that a car that doesn't hold up its value that well, they'll want a downpayment to cover the depreciation.

Further, the only reason the bank is willing to hand you over $30k is that they get the car as calateral (try getting a cash loan for that amount and not pay 20% interest or just get laughed at). Just like giving them a Casio watch for a $10k cash loan won't help you any, a bank won't take a $20k car as collatoral for a $30k loan.

Now, of course manufacturer loans are much more leniant and obviously if you have great credit, banks will go more out of their way to get you the loan you want.
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Old 03-18-2003, 04:46 PM   #47
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Quote:
Originally posted by silvercharged


Send a copy of that E-mail to Subaru of America and see who has the last laugh.....
I just got an email back from SOA. They are going to speak with managment over there. I would suggest that anyone else with complaints about them forward them to [email protected]
perhaps with enough complaints Bill Kolb will lose their allotment of STIs and not be able to fork anyone over.
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Old 03-18-2003, 04:58 PM   #48
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I hear yah. All valid points.

and just because i've never used the "disco monkey"
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Old 03-18-2003, 09:57 PM   #49
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I was told by a salesman that they are planning to sell the STi for 1k over msrp. The car is due out in June? If so I'll see what's left at the end of the calendar year. Dealers may not be so anxious to keep unsold cars on the lot at that time due to the tax burden they will encounter.
Darryl
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Old 03-20-2003, 01:44 PM   #50
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Hopefully most dealers will not add too much to the price. Subaru knows that is they don't the STi will definitely be a better deal that the EVO. CA seems fairly notorious to over-charging (for example look at the EVO $10-20 thousand more!) Should be interesting to see.
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