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12-31-2002, 03:40 PM | #51 |
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My understanding is that there are some homalgomation rules that allow for manufacturers to go outside the 2.0l range. I agree, it seems odd (and expensive) that they would give the US (or North America) the only 2.5t STi, but stranger things seem to have happened.
Jim
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12-31-2002, 03:54 PM | #52 | |
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: BTW...
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12-31-2002, 06:41 PM | #53 |
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STi maybe.....?
Seriously, know one knows for sure if it will have the 2.0t like the rest of the world, or the 2.5t. If it were to have a 2.5t then I would hasten (sp) to guess that it would be the same engine (or very close to) that is being dropped into the Legacy's. The rumor mill seems to point to them still "developing/testing" the 2.5t for the next Gen Legacy. If that's the case, then I doubt they would have a working approved engine coming in the STi. IMHO though. |
12-31-2002, 06:57 PM | #54 | |
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You guys who keep going on about WRC and homologation as a reason why the US won't get a 2.5 STi please STOP and research the issue before you post.
Also, the only SCCA rules even close to applying are about engine restrictors which must be fitted. A 2.5 STi would be legal for Open class but not legal for Group N until it has been homologated for Group N... Quote:
Point being, US gets the larger displacement engines earlier than other Subaru markets. On Bob's Forester 2.5 low pressure turbo output, the ~250BHP I mentioned was with stock (high) compression ratio, so your calculation is probably right assuming they drop the compression ratio a little. Just doing a little reading on 22b.com.... apparently there were 2.5 turbo rumors for the 22B before it came out. Glenn PS I thought Jon's 151NA was pretty clever. |
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12-31-2002, 07:29 PM | #55 |
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The ONLY reason low boost RS's make 250+ hp is because of the car's high compression. It's not really wise to sell a high compression, low boost engine like that. Turbo's don't always like low boost, and it gives people more reason to turn up the boost, and pop the motors. If Subaru were to release the STi as a boosted 2.5L, it would probably have a much lower compression, 8.5:1 most likely.
Also, a 2.5l Turbo Legacy is much more likely than a 2.5l STi. Subaru's dumped tons of R&D time and money into developing the 2.0l STi motor. It would be silly to throw that away, and go with an untested 2.5l Turbo block in a high performance car. Why go with an engine that could possibly have serious reliability issues as a high power motor, when you have a supurb 2.0l that can make well in excess of 300hp. The Legacy doesn't need such high performance in the US. Enough power to keep up with some Bimmers, and mom and pop buyers will be happy. I don't really care what engine it has, as long as it delivers some serious performance, and I think you all can agree with me there. P.S. The WRX, and EVO (as well as most other small high power cars in Japan) are 2.0l because there's a serious tax imposed on cars with displacement greater than 2.0l. |
12-31-2002, 07:31 PM | #56 |
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people at SOA must get a huge kick outta us debating on what were getting. IT's so comical. no one can say if its 2.0 or 2.5 or whatever, but I see 2 strikes against a 2.5.......no where else in the world, and goes against their wrc rules. I want a sti the same as the japs get.
-mikey |
12-31-2002, 08:37 PM | #57 | ||
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Hello, McFly? You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it thirsty. Quote:
Glenn Last edited by ANZAC_1915; 12-31-2002 at 08:42 PM. |
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12-31-2002, 09:58 PM | #58 | |
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12-31-2002, 11:13 PM | #59 | |
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: BTW...
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Japanese Forester Cross Sports = 2.0 turbo Japanese Forester XT = 2.0 turbo Japanese Forester X20 = 2.0 Japanese Forester X = 2.0 Bob Last edited by rsholland; 12-31-2002 at 11:18 PM. |
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01-01-2003, 11:41 AM | #60 | ||
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01-01-2003, 01:27 PM | #61 | |
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01-01-2003, 02:39 PM | #62 |
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2.5 Turbo Forester In Alaska
Just to add fuel (albeit only 90 octane here in Fairbanks) to the debate, the Turbo Forester that was up here cold weather testing with the STi a few weeks ago was a 2.5 turbo.
On one of my forays by Subaru's hideout, the Forester was parked with its hood propped open. I took a careful look inside the engine compartment. It was the typical turbo setup with TMIC, etc, but varied in its arrangement of certain components, compared to my WRX. Of significant note, however, was the factory engine specification sticker that plainly stated "150 CID". This, "150 CID", translates to roughly 2.5 liters, n'est pas? Unfortunately, the STi was never left unguarded with its hood up. |
01-01-2003, 02:44 PM | #63 |
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In theory, it sounds good, in practice, there will be lots more broken Subarus if that's true.
That's too bad for the people that buy Subies for reliability... The Consumer Report ratings will be going down the toilet. and HAPPY NEW YEAR!!!! |
01-01-2003, 03:08 PM | #64 | |
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01-01-2003, 03:21 PM | #65 | |
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01-01-2003, 04:15 PM | #66 |
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Guy... guy... guys... Fishbuld just said he personally read the underhood decal of the turbo Forester he "stalked" in Alaska and it listed 2.5 L (151CID) as the engine's nomenclatue. Now will someone who knows differently please explain.
And the next person that says 2.0L/STI/WRC /North America in the same sentence is gonna get it. For the last and final time whichever engine we get has NOTHING to do with WRC or rallying requirements, we can get any engine Subaru wants to put. Thank god this will be all over in a few days...many are gonna eat crow |
01-01-2003, 05:27 PM | #67 | |
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Re: 2.5 Turbo Forester In Alaska
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It's shame you didn't get a picture of that label, because you know there will *still* be doubters here. Could you tell as to whether it was SOHC or DOHC? One more question: Did you notice as to whether it was an automatic or 5-speed? A while back I had heard that the Forester turbo would ONLY be available in automatic. I hope that's not true! Bob Last edited by rsholland; 01-01-2003 at 05:41 PM. |
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01-01-2003, 06:25 PM | #68 |
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25B-S, kind of has a ring to it...
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01-01-2003, 06:28 PM | #69 | |
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Japan rates their gas using RON, we use (RON + MON)/2 so our 93 octane is around the same as their 100 octane, or at most, a few points lower (2-3 maybe). Last edited by Jewbaru; 01-02-2003 at 12:29 AM. |
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01-01-2003, 06:30 PM | #70 | |
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[EDIT] I too can't wait for the official specs to be released, the speculation is driving me nuts! |
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01-01-2003, 07:37 PM | #71 |
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.
Last edited by Hondaslayer; 01-03-2003 at 02:54 PM. |
01-01-2003, 10:06 PM | #72 |
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Why is WRC being mentioned???
The reason WRC is being brought into this discussion is because that it is Subaru's main test bed for performance engines. Why do you think Subaru refined a 2.0L to begin with when they could have used a 2.2 or a 2.5 at about the same time? Why is it that the EVO sports a 2.0L?? Why in the world would a manufacturer as small as Subaru spend the R&D money to develop a limted run performance 2.5L turbo for the U.S. market STi only and put 2.0L turbo's in the rest?? It is a silly waste of money. Like the STi needs a 2.5L turbo to sell like hotcakes here. The reason the US got the 2.5L across the whole Impreza line was mainly due to our gas prices and mileage not being as big a concern as Japan and Europe and also we in the US have this obsession with horsepower. The old school 2.5RS was a test for the demand of not only the WRX, but for the 2.5L engine. The 2.5L kept the baseline Impreza's competitive with the competition. What person in the US wants a car with no guts?? SCCA has just about 0 bearing in this issue because apparently they do have the rules to accomodate the larger engine and Subaru is no where near as active in SCCA as they are in WRC.
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01-01-2003, 10:52 PM | #73 |
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I have no idea why would somebody think is going to be a 2.5L, where do they get this kind of info? Why not 2.2, 2.3, 2.4, or 2.6??? As lease I can tell you is going to be 2.0L because thats what the rest of the world is getting.
Last edited by HOKWRX; 01-02-2003 at 12:32 PM. |
01-02-2003, 12:13 AM | #74 |
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Well since some of you guys are very attament against this, I am going to have to say 2.5 STi just for spite.
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01-02-2003, 12:28 AM | #75 | |
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Re: Why is WRC being mentioned???
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I'm sure the old Homogilation WRC rules played a role in Subaru's designing of the engine, but WRC isn't the primary reason. The main reason a 2.5l Turbo motor is unlikely in the STi here in the states is because A) Mitsubishi (not to mention Honda with the aforementions S2000, and the slews of modified WRXs on this BB) has proved it's possible to get good power, and still meet emissions, and B) because Subaru had dumped countless dollars in R&D of the STi motor, and it would be a waste to not bring that technology to what's turning out to be their hottest market. Either way, everything is speculation untill Subaru spills the beans in, I'm guessing, a few weeks. Last edited by Jewbaru; 01-02-2003 at 12:36 AM. |
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