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Old 04-04-2015, 09:00 PM   #76
Wagon Of Fury
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My days of bustin' caps in suckaz are behind me.

So, how would I go about determining a fair trade-in value on a gently used Glock 17 (9mm) ? Gently used as in, it hasn't been touched in probably 15 years. Probably paid about $500 for it back in the day with a hi-cap magazine.
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Old 04-04-2015, 09:22 PM   #77
tobylazur
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombiekiller View Post
a 9 month form 4 is ridonkulous!

My last 3 were about 3 months ( give or take a couple weeks).

was your 9 month form 4 an individual form, or a trust form?

Within the next 45 days, I should have my Mist, Specwar and tavor can back.

I have a cheapo huntertown arms 22 can coming that i picked up because is was cheap. ( FFL got a smokin deal on like 40 of em).

ATF is dicking around with form 3s, so my dealer doesn't even have my Omega, Gemtech 300BLK or FDE Octane 45 yet, which blows.

I also have an OSS mission 7.62 that was ordered about a month ago.

the last can that I'm going to pick up this year is a thunderbeast ultra 9CB.

As a businessperson, I can't comprehend why the ATF isnt hiring like crazy. Each examiner usually gets through 100 forms per day, 500 per week

. If its a form 4... 200 x 100 x 5. $100,000 in tax revenue per examiner, per week. Per year, each examiner can help the Gov't collect 4.8 million bucks.

I'll bet they pay examiners 60K a year. Why would you not have an army of examiners? So much for efficiency.
It was on a trust, maybe 3 years ago?

Last I heard, the ATF doesn't see any of the money from the tax stamps, that's why they don't care about speeding up the process. I could be wrong though.

Vortex vs Weaver vs Falcon Menace. What you guys pick? Optics are not my forte.
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Old 04-04-2015, 09:50 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wagon Of Fury View Post
My days of bustin' caps in suckaz are behind me.

So, how would I go about determining a fair trade-in value on a gently used Glock 17 (9mm) ? Gently used as in, it hasn't been touched in probably 15 years. Probably paid about $500 for it back in the day with a hi-cap magazine.
Gen 3? I don't know about trade in but I suspect you can get $400-$420 as a straight sale. That's about what the excellent condition police trade-in guns are priced. Maybe $360 as a trade, worst case.
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Old 04-04-2015, 10:03 PM   #79
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Originally Posted by wrx3r View Post
Submitting my first form 1 tomorrow (efile). Finally decided to get the ball rolling in fear of them no longer allowing trust to submit form 1 without a CLEO sign off which mine said he will not sign. AR15.com efile thread looks like 6-7 weeks current turn around. Now I need to start buying parts...

I thought you had to have the full extended length of the rifle in order to eFile? Or is there a way around this or am I mistaken?
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Old 04-04-2015, 10:11 PM   #80
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Be nice.

Quote:
Originally Posted by csperformance View Post
I thought you had to have the full extended length of the rifle in order to eFile? Or is there a way around this or am I mistaken?
Guesstimate.
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Old 04-04-2015, 10:14 PM   #81
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Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses View Post

Guesstimate.

Good to know. Time to eFile a form 1 tomorrow or Monday.
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Old 04-04-2015, 10:46 PM   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrx3r View Post
funny, I never stopped to think of it this way. Welp, I suppose that is the US government for you...
I know, I look at things from a revenue generation aspect. Blame my profession.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrMcCrackin View Post
Pics?

I'm waiting for the new SIG MPX to see which I like betterer
I will take some pics tomorrow. My gun room looks like a tornado hit it right now and my ultrasonic is buzzing away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by tobylazur View Post
It was on a trust, maybe 3 years ago?

Last I heard, the ATF doesn't see any of the money from the tax stamps, that's why they don't care about speeding up the process. I could be wrong though.

Vortex vs Weaver vs Falcon Menace. What you guys pick? Optics are not my forte.
Ah, I gotcha. That makes more sense. They do get funding from the collected taxes. They are using a portion of it to revamp eforms. The developers are total heels though. The goal is to create a system with near instant form 3 approvals and significantly speed form 4s.

I'd go vortex if thats all the info we're getting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by csperformance View Post
I thought you had to have the full extended length of the rifle in order to eFile? Or is there a way around this or am I mistaken?
If its an AR// 8" barrel = 25" , 10" = 27". As long as you're close, you're in good shape.
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Old 04-04-2015, 10:54 PM   #83
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Got my new trigger for my AR. Went to a Hiperfire 24c. Hopefully will get to install it this week. Anyone else have one?
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Old 04-04-2015, 10:59 PM   #84
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Originally Posted by Buffman View Post
Got my new trigger for my AR. Went to a Hiperfire 24c. Hopefully will get to install it this week. Anyone else have one?

love it. Almost every AR that I have has some form of hiperfire trigger.
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Old 04-05-2015, 01:01 AM   #85
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20% off Geissele/ALG triggers at RogTac: http://www.reddit.com/r/gundeals/com...iggers_20_off/
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Old 04-05-2015, 01:36 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by csperformance View Post
I thought you had to have the full extended length of the rifle in order to eFile? Or is there a way around this or am I mistaken?
Quote:
Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses View Post

Guesstimate.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zombiekiller View Post

If its an AR// 8" barrel = 25" , 10" = 27". As long as you're close, you're in good shape.
pretty much this.

planning on 11.5 barrel so 11.5 + whatever my AR is with stock fully extended is what I will put.
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Old 04-05-2015, 02:10 AM   #87
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Weaver:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/598...-reticle-matte

Vortex:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/148...ProductFinding

Falcon Menace:
http://swfa.com/Falcon-Menace-4-14x4...pe-P57241.aspx
(I wasn't originally looking at this one, but a local guy said he'd make me a really good deal on his)
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Old 04-05-2015, 02:15 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OrbitalEllipses View Post
Be nice.

http://youtu.be/89SFayqXRRk


Guesstimate.
Other than your sweatshirt being loose around your holster making me nervous, you look fine to me.
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Old 04-05-2015, 08:22 AM   #89
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Not bad! Draw faster and snap your eyes to the far left and your gun will swing faster.
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Old 04-05-2015, 08:44 AM   #90
zombiekiller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tobylazur View Post
Weaver:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/598...-reticle-matte

Vortex:
http://www.midwayusa.com/product/148...ProductFinding

Falcon Menace:
http://swfa.com/Falcon-Menace-4-14x4...pe-P57241.aspx
(I wasn't originally looking at this one, but a local guy said he'd make me a really good deal on his)

Do you want to a reticle in MRAD or MOA ?

First Focal Plane or Second Focal Plan? ( reticle that gets bigger as you zoom, or stays the same size?) Some folks have issues with the size of the crosshairs at low power on FFP scopes.

The reticle in a vortex is moa. it is also second focal plane. Ultimately, unless you are super dude tactical elitist, the main thing here is that you will not be able to accurately range using the scope with the vortex. This is moot if you are using a laer rangefinder or don't give a ****.

Trying to get on target with it at distance will really be hunt and peck until you put together a sizable log book. That is, if you even care about first shot accuracy.

I have zero experience with the falcon menace scope, or that brand. it is Mrad and it is FFP. So you can range and correct using the scope.

If that is my price range, I'd just as well buy the primary arms FFP 4-14 scope. I have one. It works. The turrets are as accurate as you're gonna get for a lower end of the spectrum scope.

I use it on my DMR style 223/556 AR. It helps me bang steel out to 650-700yds ( if i do my job).

https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary_...-14xffp308.htm
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Old 04-05-2015, 09:07 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombiekiller View Post
a 9 month form 4 is ridonkulous!
A buddy is on 16mos and 18mos respectively. They've *lost* paperwork two times each. My NFA lawyer told me that's not accidental...has to do with his SOT being very active in the nonprofit lobbying effort behind making suppressors non-NFA.
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Old 04-05-2015, 10:14 AM   #92
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I got lucky on that Form 1 paper filed taking less than 2 months. I filed another Form 1 (SBS) on Jan 7 this year, and it's still with them. :\
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Old 04-05-2015, 10:38 AM   #93
zombiekiller
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Originally Posted by PGT View Post
A buddy is on 16mos and 18mos respectively. They've *lost* paperwork two times each. My NFA lawyer told me that's not accidental...has to do with his SOT being very active in the nonprofit lobbying effort behind making suppressors non-NFA.
That's freaking nuts.

I'd be steaming!

one can only hope that they eventually do break suppressors out of the NFA, but I'd doubt that after a tax revenue study that it would ever happen.

The e-forms system was pretty wonky yesterday. It actually submitted my form twice, but only asked me for payment once. I guess I'll see if it went it correctly. It shows once in my submitted/pending forms.
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Old 04-05-2015, 10:43 AM   #94
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Originally Posted by zombiekiller View Post
I'd be steaming!
and then what? What recourse do you have beyond being PO'ed? That's why the system is broken.

I like the SOT he used.....I'm not willing to use him though. My F4 took less than 90 days from a dealer closer to me and at the end of the day, I don't want my $$ tied up like that (plus my SOT doesn't make me pay more than the cost of the stamp and a $50 deposit until the F4 comes back).
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Old 04-05-2015, 11:26 AM   #95
tobylazur
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombiekiller View Post
Do you want to a reticle in MRAD or MOA ?

First Focal Plane or Second Focal Plan? ( reticle that gets bigger as you zoom, or stays the same size?) Some folks have issues with the size of the crosshairs at low power on FFP scopes.

The reticle in a vortex is moa. it is also second focal plane. Ultimately, unless you are super dude tactical elitist, the main thing here is that you will not be able to accurately range using the scope with the vortex. This is moot if you are using a laer rangefinder or don't give a ****.

Trying to get on target with it at distance will really be hunt and peck until you put together a sizable log book. That is, if you even care about first shot accuracy.

I have zero experience with the falcon menace scope, or that brand. it is Mrad and it is FFP. So you can range and correct using the scope.

If that is my price range, I'd just as well buy the primary arms FFP 4-14 scope. I have one. It works. The turrets are as accurate as you're gonna get for a lower end of the spectrum scope.

I use it on my DMR style 223/556 AR. It helps me bang steel out to 650-700yds ( if i do my job).

https://www.primaryarms.com/Primary_...-14xffp308.htm
Oops, the vortex should have been the mil/mil version. I don't really care about ranging with the reticle(though it might be nice to have the option), and I'm not sure I want a FFP scope. I just want to accurately shoot steel out as far as possible, and still have the option to hunt with it.

Edit: it's going on my savage in .308.

Last edited by tobylazur; 04-05-2015 at 11:42 AM.
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Old 04-05-2015, 12:16 PM   #96
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Hi everyone. In for new thread
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Old 04-05-2015, 12:18 PM   #97
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Originally Posted by PGT View Post
and then what? What recourse do you have beyond being PO'ed? That's why the system is broken.
Yep. The ATF has a basic misunderstanding, unwillingness, or is intentionally ****ing around with Maryland stuff due to our newer laws...that touch only semi-auto centerfire rifles. 22LR SBR, machine guns, lots of other disapproved things for no reason. What can you do? People here have been fighting ATF for over a year on disapproved forms (reason: "state law") that were 100% legal. And getting in touch with those people at the ATF?

I just saw some letters come from ATF claiming insufficient funds provided or fingerprint cards not provided. Yeah, that stuff wasn't provided mhm sure.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tobylazur View Post
Other than your sweatshirt being loose around your holster making me nervous, you look fine to me.
I thumb over hammer when reholstering and move the sweatshirt with my left hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SubEd View Post
Not bad! Draw faster and snap your eyes to the far left and your gun will swing faster.
First time drawing at a competition. Getting clean draws and not fumbling was the goal.

Last edited by OrbitalEllipses; 04-05-2015 at 12:24 PM.
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Old 04-05-2015, 12:33 PM   #98
zombiekiller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tobylazur View Post
Oops, the vortex should have been the mil/mil version. I don't really care about ranging with the reticle(though it might be nice to have the option), and I'm not sure I want a FFP scope. I just want to accurately shoot steel out as far as possible, and still have the option to hunt with it.

Edit: it's going on my savage in .308.
SFP = Really more complicated to range with scope.

FFP = As long as you can get pretty close on actual target height estimate, its a simple calc to range a target.

some FFp scopes have a barely visible reticle at low power.

If you are hunting with it. buy a sfp scope. illuminated if possible. if you want to range stuff, buy a laser range finder at a later date.
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Old 04-05-2015, 12:37 PM   #99
PGT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zombiekiller View Post
some FFp scopes have a barely visible reticle at low power.
The Primary Arms FFP is like that....first time I looked through it across my yard, I was like "WTF, I can't even see the reticle"
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Old 04-05-2015, 01:01 PM   #100
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Originally Posted by PGT View Post
The Primary Arms FFP is like that....first time I looked through it across my yard, I was like "WTF, I can't even see the reticle"

Dude, My steiner is almost as bad. the class is way clearer, so you can pick it out. In bright sunlight, with the illumination up to 11 ( no ****, the knob literally goes to 11 ) you can't see it lit up red at all. That is even with the enormous sunshade.

Now on my S&B , no problemo, but that scope was 10x the Primary arms and double the steiner.

point being, it's not better on ANY FFP scope until you're in the $3G + range.
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