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Old 02-11-2021, 09:41 PM   #26
.brian.
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Have you try shopping for all the duplicate stuff that you need to buy for a second house?

When you have 2 houses you pay 2x the internet, have 2 sets of all the furniture, pots and pans, etc.
Considering his budget is like $800k, I don't think he is too worried about that.
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Old 02-11-2021, 09:46 PM   #27
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Considering his budget is like $800k, I don't think he is too worried about that.
In the other thread he talked about borrowing $50k from retirement, so $10k or whatever on home furnishing is not nothing.
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Old 02-11-2021, 09:50 PM   #28
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In the other thread he talked about borrowing $50k from retirement, so $10k or whatever on home furnishing is not nothing.
It's true. Window coverings and furniture could definitely add up. Pots and pans not so much. Thus my hesitancy before and not trying to extend myself too much.

It'll all likely work out just fine financially after a few years, but my (near-0-rate, not prepaying) student loans aren't done with quite yet and I don't want to drain my taxable account too much, either.
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Old 02-11-2021, 10:04 PM   #29
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But I plan to structure it such that we're not dependent at all on rental income.

Besides, we'd use it every weekend during peak seasons anyway--eldest kid this year and elder two kids next year will be in the 14 week, all-winter-long All Mountain Development program at Winter Park so we're committed to being up here come hell or high water. Er, snow.

(I would probably idly list it mid-week and for when we're out of town for a week or two block on vacation ourselves, but that'd just be icing on the cake.)
We discussed this when we bought our place, but ultimately decided not to rent it out for the following reasons:

1. We want to leave all of our stuff in the condo, and not have to worry about putting stuff away, i.e. emptying dressers / drawers etc.

2. We don't have kids, so we bought the furniture we wanted, and didn't want to worry about having renters trash the furniture. If we were going to rent, we would have bought furniture that could be easily replaced, i.e. cheaper. Also, no kids, no issues with finding kid friendly - kid durable furniture.

3. We bought flatware, cutlery etc that we would have at home, and didn't want to deal with people destroying dishes / using knives to open bottles etc.

Renting out place isn't out of the question, and if we find a slightly larger place that meets our wants/needs then we would definitely rent out our current condo. i.e. furnish the new place with everything we already have and buy new stuff for the rental unit.

FWIW we spent 100+ days at our condo in 2020 Likely will get 80-100 days this year as well. Like Shik described we should use our condo year round.
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Old 02-11-2021, 10:06 PM   #30
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Have you try shopping for all the duplicate stuff that you need to buy for a second house?

When you have 2 houses you pay 2x the internet, have 2 sets of all the furniture, pots and pans, etc.
This is a reality.

2x internet / cable packages.
Furniture for 2 bedroom condo / living room / dining room / kitchen etc.

But most are a one time purchase.
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Old 02-11-2021, 10:25 PM   #31
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My favorite Mountain House is Pad Thai.



I’m in as well for many of the same reasons as you - winter park has been my target for several years just waiting for the right timing.

I also have eaten many Mountain House meals while backpacking. Beef macaroni seems very significant to me but I can’t remember if it was because it was really good or really bad.
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Old 02-11-2021, 11:25 PM   #32
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I also have eaten many Mountain House meals while backpacking. Beef macaroni seems very significant to me but I can’t remember if it was because it was really good or really bad.


Not one I remember so hard to say. Could honestly go either way.

I eat more Backpackers Pantry vs Mountain House.

Pad Thai wins for sure. Pasta primavera is ok. Chili Mac is ok.

Three Sisters Stew is one I remember the kids liking.
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Old 02-11-2021, 11:33 PM   #33
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If only we had a fiscally responsible thread.
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Old 02-11-2021, 11:46 PM   #34
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If only we had a fiscally responsible thread.
I'm trying to stimulate the economy!

This will push retirement back some more compared to keeping the purse strings tight. But I am ok with trading some future work for good family experiences soon.
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Old 02-11-2021, 11:54 PM   #35
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I'm trying to stimulate the economy!

This will push retirement back some more compared to keeping the purse strings tight. But I am ok with trading some future work for good family experiences soon.
Having our condo during COVID (all of 2020 and most of 2021 likely) has been fantastic.

We have had it since 2018, and did a ton of traveling 2018/2019. Was painful knowing it was sitting empty.

Having family/friends visit/stay/use our condo is why we bought it, and definitely agree that you will have great family time!

Hoping to get back to traveling, but spending a ton of time at the condo this past year definitely was a hard reset. We will still travel, but much less as we realize how much we enjoy cycling (year round), hiking and just being outdoors.

And if you don't like it, just Shik it.
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Old 02-11-2021, 11:55 PM   #36
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Shik....

Awesome news, good luck!!!
I'm excited to see how this thread progresses!!
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Old 02-11-2021, 11:57 PM   #37
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Shik....

Awesome news, good luck!!!
I'm excited to see how this thread progresses!!
Thanks! For OT's entertainment I will post both highs and lows of the experience as they transpire.

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Old 02-12-2021, 12:16 AM   #38
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If only we had a fiscally responsible thread.
Would that be where we talk about utility vs cost and the time value of money?
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Old 02-12-2021, 02:30 AM   #39
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Originally Posted by shikataganai View Post


Yeah, that definitely gives me pause! Since there's no good return policy, we've rented a few condos up in the Winter Park/Fraser area (and at Copper), which was useful to inform us of what we like and don't like.
Things we like:

- attached garages
- sane layouts without grandiose, expensive to heat super tall rooms and the like
- someone else to do snow removal in exchange for a reasonable HOA fee
Why not just roll this up in the humble brag thread?

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My favorite Mountain House is Pad Thai.
Chicken and Dumplings.
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Old 02-12-2021, 03:11 AM   #40
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So there would be reason for people to rent in summer and winter, not so much the shoulder seasons, sure. But I plan to structure it such that we're not dependent at all on rental income.
Stick to this, hard. If you know for sure you won't use it for several weeks or months, ok book it out, maybe, but it's a second home, not a rental. Try and stick to friends/family, really, just to have somebody there and living/maintaining it while you aren't. Usually they'll be really nice and kick back to you something awesome later on (many times it's something hidden you didn't even know about!), or offer to stock it with hella food/supplies when they leave, etc.

I've been through this second hand (mom's Tahoe house) and you really don't want to rely on splitting it up. Things get weird when you try and live in your own rental.
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Old 02-12-2021, 03:20 AM   #41
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Came here for freeze dried breakfast scramble and left disappointed.
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Old 02-12-2021, 07:49 AM   #42
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Are parody threads still banned? Shikataganai’s Mounting Hoes thread (and other ways to lose your money!)
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Old 02-12-2021, 08:17 AM   #43
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My BIL had a nice lake house and the first year they bought it it was used so often during the summer that it didn’t matter if it sat empty all fall and winter, but it didn’t sit empty all fall and winter as hey kept going because it was so nice and peaceful.

The second year it was used the same amount during the summer but the fall/winter usage rate fell a ton.

Third year, a little less summer usage and almost no winter usage.

Continue this pattern for several more years until one summer their boat didn’t even get in the water.

They sold the place three years ago, came out about even on the property if you don’t count the upkeep and stuff like that, boat still hasn’t been back in the water.

I’m guessing that even if there is a downturn in RE that you wouldn’t get killed on a mountain place. Enjoy.
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Old 02-12-2021, 08:53 AM   #44
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Def jelly! Congrats on the new venture. Traffic is gotten soo bad I don’t go up on weekends anymore. I get comp days during the week for weekend work so I strictly do that.

With me not being in the position to buy like you I think I’m going to try and do two trips a year to places like big sky or Jackson hole to avoid the crowds.

Traffic to the mountain means lots of traffic on the mountain so even if I get up on the weekend I find myself getting irritated with everyone.
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Old 02-12-2021, 09:27 AM   #45
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DO IT!

My parents built a weekend / seasonal second home in New England, like 50 years ago, before my younger siblings were born. It was a part of the world they used to go for weekends as newlyweds and then with me as a baby, and they agreed to buy this place on a whim, "we're up here a lot anyway" and "we're always broke and we never know why, this way at least we'll know why." They offered to buy one the guy was building, but he told them "this one is sold, but I can build you one next door." They wrote him a check for fifty bucks and left with an envelope with a signed agreement hand-written on the back, wondering "what the hell did we just do?" 51 years later, that's what we've got.

It wound up being the best thing they ever did.

They built ~3hours away from our full-time home in the NY suburbs. It's near some New England ski areas but it's not a ski place - there's no insulation, and once it gets colder than about 45F outside at night the heat can't really keep up except in the bedrooms. The roads were dirt and then gravel until a few years ago, so they weren't plowed, which meant you couldn't really get in and out during the winter anyway, so skiing wasn't really an option until the last 20 years or so. However, it's on a lake, big enough to ski on but not big enough to get lost on.

Three hours on a Friday after work and school wasn't bad, especially in the summer. It was too far to decide at the last minute "sure, let's go today!" with three kids, or to go up during the week or for just one overnight, so there were some weekends we didn't go because one of us had an activity. But it wound up being the place we went every July every summer, and also on most weekends from mid-May through mid-October. Three hours each way wasn't particularly onerous; it made for some nice family car-time. (We still have songs we remember from those drives.)

For a few years, we would rent it out for August. After a while, though, it wasn't worth the effort even though these rent for good money, and so we just kept the house available for us the whole summer so we could leave our own clothes in the drawers, go there on weekends in August, whatever. During our rental times, though, we had a couple of families that rented it from us several years in a row; both families bought nearby when the opportunity arose. The last time I was there, one of those kids (now a middle-aged dad) canoed past our dock with his own son, telling him "that's where we used to stay when I was your age."

Amusingly, a bunch of the families that wound up there all lived within about a 10 mile radius in the NY suburbs. Friends of my parents were looking further upstate to waterski, and they visited my parents and decided "it's a small lake but it's only 3 hours, so if we built here instead of the Finger Lakes we could come here every weekend" and they've been there about 48 years now. Later families made some changes you might consider if you're able to make these decisions for your place:

1. Do the extra bedroom, or two. Our place started out with two bedrooms, one bathroom, and a loft. This was plenty for a couple with one kid. Even after my brother and sister were born, it was fun when we were all little and we would bring friends up or they'd invite friends with kids, and everyone would be all crammed in together. (Many weekends with another couple visiting with their three kids as well, so six kids and four adults.) It was cozy. But it'll be {snaps fingers} THAT soon before your kids will be high-school aged and will want to bring friends there, and you'll want an extra bedroom or two, and in another eye-blink there will be kids and spouses and grandkids. My parents built out part of the porch as a third bedroom / den 25 years ago and it makes a world of difference. Other families started off with a third bedroom plus the loft.

2. Do an extra bathroom. My parents added a half-bath so at least two people can pee at the same time, and that's a whole new world.

3. Plan the view. (Assuming you have some control over construction or remodeling.) My parents have a wall with a window on either side of the fireplace, and they wished they'd done windows there instead and put the fireplace on a different wall. I never questioned it, I thought "it's perfect" and wouldn't change a thing, but they would've liked more windows facing that part of the lake.

Last edited by Bill_Rockoff; 02-12-2021 at 10:08 AM.
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Old 02-12-2021, 11:18 AM   #46
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Originally Posted by quentinberg007 View Post
I also have eaten many Mountain House meals while backpacking. Beef macaroni seems very significant to me but I can’t remember if it was because it was really good or really bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by thechickencow View Post
Not one I remember so hard to say. Could honestly go either way.

I eat more Backpackers Pantry vs Mountain House.

Pad Thai wins for sure. Pasta primavera is ok. Chili Mac is ok.

Three Sisters Stew is one I remember the kids liking.
I discovered Peak Refuel meals last year and will never go back to Mountain House or the like. Their stuff looks and tastes like actual food and has significantly less salt. We supplement each one with a few small tortillas, and it makes for a surprisingly satisfying meal.

I always take a few camping in case I want a break from cooking.
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Old 02-12-2021, 11:54 AM   #47
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I discovered Peak Refuel meals last year and will never go back to Mountain House or the like. Their stuff looks and tastes like actual food and has significantly less salt. We supplement each one with a few small tortillas, and it makes for a surprisingly satisfying meal.



I always take a few camping in case I want a break from cooking.


I ordered a few of those to try out next time I can - worth a shot!
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Old 02-12-2021, 12:12 PM   #48
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Shik - just make/buy a friend in the area, far cheaper!

If ever you want a ski buddy at WP (next season), send me a message. I try to get up there 2-3 times/mo.; usually ski Sat. afternoon & Sun. mornings.

I don't find the traffic too terrible getting to WP around 11am-12pm on a Sat. (parking can be an issue though). And leaving around the same time on Sun. Now leave after 1pm on Sun., and traffic can be drastically different.

Also - as for working remote: look into ISP options. My friend who has lived in Tabernash & works in WP for years says they often have internet speed issues during ski season. And radiology images are big.
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Old 02-12-2021, 12:16 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by shikataganai View Post
We're thinking more:

- I take every Friday afternoon off during ski season
- leave Denver as soon as kids done with school, so 3 PM?
- ski Saturday, elder kids in programs, youngest learning with me
- ski a couple of runs Sunday if kids enthusiastic or snow exceptional
- head back Sunday around noon
- ...
- profit
Seems like a lot of time and work to go down a hill on boards while being cold.

Haha

Seriously, how do you get time for that? I work ~30 hours a week and if I’m lucky, I get 3 hours for activities.

Last time we took a weekend to stay in the mountains, we discussed buying a second house but we both quickly ruled it out as we don’t have time to spend there to make it worthwhile nor the energy for upkeep of a second place.
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Old 02-12-2021, 03:19 PM   #50
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Well I'll be following along as well and maybe participating with my own experiences

Main reasons to really go through with such a thing all come down to family experiences/memories and to have a place to recharge and to avoid tons of time in the car. I don't think it comes down to being the smartest financial decision but money is a tool and it should definitely be used for happiness some of the time. Too bad this is not 2009 when prices just plummeted, then yeah it could be a good investment.

I do worry about the upkeep of a second place but that is all the more reason to be selective with what is purchased. I definitely do not want; a log cabin, baseboard heating, an exorbitant HOA, something that needs a renovation, a place where I hear traffic all time.

I do want a place I can mountain bike directly from and quickly on trails, a view, ideally close to water, a sauna, 3 bedrooms, a garage.

We would definitely structure so rent is needed as well and would only rent to close friends or family.

I think we'd use it the most in the summer with the kids being off school all summer we'd basically live up there then.

A thing I need to get over is buying at what I see as a peak in pricing. My wife needs to get over sticker shock, homes aren't cheap up there.
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