Open Loop to Closed Loop Transition

[sterod]

Hello Everyone, I'm hoping someone can help me out.
Vehicle is a 2011 STi, fully built rotated turbo setup with ID1000's.
Running AccessTUNER Race with Speed Density.

I've linked a datalog file in MS Excel XLSX format below.
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/.../datalog7.xlsx

When I am cruising on the highway and let off the throttle completely, the vehicle goes into overrun and open loop as expected. However, when I resume VERY light throttle (around 15%) the fueling stays in open loop and consequently runs very rich. The open loop fueling AFR targets for the load and RPM's in question are set for 14.7 and I can't set them any higher to lean it out that way. As soon as I add a little more throttle, it goes into closed loop and the AFR's goes up and lean out as desired. What I am wondering is what exactly triggers open loop to closed loop fueling? I've checked the log that I've attached and I can't see it being calculated load, rpm or throttle position, it seems to be some combination of them and ATR only has a Closed to Open loop transition section which is the opposite of what I need.

Can you suggest a course of action to remedy this?

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[Paidfor]

Mine used to do the same thing when i was still using closed loop.
I lowered the value in my rom from .256 to .176. ...This is in the cl/ol section of tables.
Specifically called (cl to ol transition with delay BPW hysteresis)


Not real sure on what the hell it does but i changed every table in the closed loop section untill this table made a difference for me.

[sterod]

Thanks but I'm not sure what you suggested will help, as I am trying to figure out what controls the Open Loop -> Closed Loop transition, not the CL to OL.

[Cobb Tuning]

Can you post up a copy of your ATR map? If you don't want to post it up here, can you email it to us to take a look at ([email protected])?

- Chris

[sterod]

Originally Posted by Cobb Tuning

Can you post up a copy of your ATR map? If you don't want to post it up here, can you email it to us to take a look at ([email protected])?

- Chris

Sure, no problem. Attached at link below.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...20SD%20Map.ptm

[DWigglz]

Is there not a way for the me to view this map with ATR? (2006 USDM STi) when i try and open "TurtLE SD Map" ATR tells me:

"Unable to load map file
Invalid 'base' map file. Please verify vehicle and vendor or map file.
(5:1193)"

[sterod]

I'm running the newest ATR 7763 posted yesterday, yours may be out of date. Also note this is a SD map.

[DWigglz]

I just updated ATR this morning. and attempted to open the map after selecting "SD Mode" as well. Both yield the same result.

[sterod]

Originally Posted by DWigglz

I just updated ATR this morning. and attempted to open the map after selecting "SD Mode" as well. Both yield the same result.

My vehicle is a 2011 STi, your saying yours says 2006, so perhaps that is the problem.

[Cobb Tuning]

I had to go to Bill to help me figure out this one, so credit to him. It's nice being surrounded by smart people

The mysterious OL condition you are getting is most likely caused by your Primary OL Fueling table. If you look at the Primary OL Fueling Min Activation table, it is set at 14.0 AFR. So anything richer than 14.0 in your Primary OL Fueling table will kick the car into OL. In your log, you can see the car goes into OL as soon as the Comm Fuel Map value drops below 14.0. You need to raise your AFRs in that area of your Primary OL Fueling table (around 2.0 load, 3200 - 3600 RPM). Hopefully that will get rid of that behavior.

It could also be related to calc load being too high due to the VE table needing to be tweaked in that area. Your front O2 goes much richer than the target. If you clean that area up, it may put you closer to more realistic calc load.

- Chris

[Cobb Tuning]

Double post

[md2regul8]

I was able to open not problem, but then again I have a 2011

[sterod]

Originally Posted by Cobb Tuning

I had to go to Bill to help me figure out this one, so credit to him. It's nice being surrounded by smart people

The mysterious OL condition you are getting is most likely caused by your Primary OL Fueling table. If you look at the Primary OL Fueling Min Activation table, it is set at 14.0 AFR. So anything richer than 14.0 in your Primary OL Fueling table will kick the car into OL. In your log, you can see the car goes into OL as soon as the Comm Fuel Map value drops below 14.0. You need to raise your AFRs in that area of your Primary OL Fueling table (around 2.0 load, 3200 - 3600 RPM). Hopefully that will get rid of that behavior.

It could also be related to calc load being too high due to the VE table needing to be tweaked in that area. Your front O2 goes much richer than the target. If you clean that area up, it may put you closer to more realistic calc load.

- Chris

Hi Chris / Bill,

I appreciate you guys helping me with this. I looked at your suggestion about the OL Fuel Primary Map being too rich (above 14 AFR) but that isn't always the case. I've attached another XLS Datalog file below to illustrate that this happens when the Comm Fuel Map is higher (leaner) than 14 AFR. I did adjust the SD VE table slightly, decreasing the values from loads 2.00-20.00 and RPM's 2100-3850 by 10% to run leaner. I'll see if this helps when I reflash tomorrow morning, the Excel file below does not take this VE adjustment into consideration as I haven't run with it yet.

New Datalog
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/.../datalog8.xlsx

New Map
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...20SD%20Map.ptm

Thanks again, I hope we can crack this problem!

[bluemax189]

Originally Posted by md2regul8

I was able to open not problem, but then again I have a 2011

only same year same make(wrx or sti) can read the map. the full paid version of accesstuner can open anything.

[Cobb Tuning]

Originally Posted by sterod

Hi Chris / Bill,

I appreciate you guys helping me with this. I looked at your suggestion about the OL Fuel Primary Map being too rich (above 14 AFR) but that isn't always the case. I've attached another XLS Datalog file below to illustrate that this happens when the Comm Fuel Map is higher (leaner) than 14 AFR. I did adjust the SD VE table slightly, decreasing the values from loads 2.00-20.00 and RPM's 2100-3850 by 10% to run leaner. I'll see if this helps when I reflash tomorrow morning, the Excel file below does not take this VE adjustment into consideration as I haven't run with it yet.

New Datalog
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/.../datalog8.xlsx

New Map
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...20SD%20Map.ptm

Thanks again, I hope we can crack this problem!

At very light throttle and load the ECU will sometimes switch to open loop or stay in open loop - this is normal behavior. We do plan to look into this logic in the future and see if there is a means to modify the behavior.

Bill

[sterod]

OK that makes sense. Now I can stop obsessing over fixing this for a little while :-)

[sterod]

Ok, well I haven't figured out what causes the OL->CL transition, but I did find a solution to my problem. What I never noticed before (until today) is that when the car was in overrun (in gear, no throttle, fuel cut, decelerating) my Vacuum/Boost gauge was at -21 inHg (about 4PSI Manifold Absolute Pressure) and when I just EVER so slightly touched the throttle, it dipped to -23 inHg (about about 2PSI Manifold Absolute Pressure). This was the OPPOSITE of what I was expecting. I though that by touching the throttle, the pressure would rise, not dip. After I realized this, the solution was simple. I decreased the VE table by 10% in the 2100-3850RPM Range. Problem solved. It still goes into open loop, but now at a much more reasonable 14AFR instead of the 11-12 I was seeing before.

[suprimesir]

Hey man,
I've been looking all over the internet for the AccessTuner Race software for a 2011 STI, but no luck so far. I was hoping maybe you still have a copy saved on an old hard drive or backup.

If you do, and you're willing to share it, I'd really appreciate it. Thanks in advance either way!

[sterod]

Yes I have the file but it's locked to my AP serial number so it will be useless.

[suprimesir]

Would you mind sending it anyway? I'd like to see if I can get it working or possibly crack it for testing purposes. Totally understand if not - just thought I'd ask in case you still had it saved.

Thanks either way!

[sterod]

Sure, here it is, download will be good for 3 days.

https://we.tl/t-6XIwqLW5Sj

[suprimesir]

Thanks a million! ***55357;***56911; I really appreciate it. I'll let you know if I have any success getting it to work.

[suprimesir]

i open the program but don't let me flash because i have WRX ECU instead of STI