Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Thursday March 28, 2024
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > Proven Power Bragging

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-11-2021, 03:52 PM   #26
snow_bound26
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 395793
Join Date: Jul 2014
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: SLC and Lake Placid
Vehicle:
2005 92x Aero
Beige

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karlot View Post
dang i didnt look at when they were active lol. i just came across this and hoped. and yeah i do have a 2.5, the car is an 06 sti. i'm currently on a 20g, I would like to retain some spool characteristics but be able to make in the low to mid 500s. which i get either turbo could do. i'm also looking for real world info on the g30-770. it seems to be something that could do really well with the 2.5. i guess time will tell. mind if i pm you about y our setup


Through my research and discussions with Killer B, the G series turbos are not that much better than the Gen 2 GTX turbos. The one advantage they have in a better IWG design. Their biggest down side is they have a tendency to have issues with shaft speed and require a speed sensor when pushing them hard. For this reason it seems the GTX are better overall as they spool fast and don't have spinning too fast. If you want an IWG the EFR turbos might be your best bet and have a built in port for a speed sensor.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
snow_bound26 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 05-11-2021, 03:54 PM   #27
whozatguy
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 179775
Join Date: May 2008
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: Huntersville, NC
Vehicle:
03 WRX/15 FXT
14 BRZ/ 92 SVX

Default

Motion Lab closed doors a couple years ago after getting into some legal troubles and shady business practices. If you search, I'm sure the details are still out there somewhere.
I did a double take when I saw their name get bumped up in the recent threads
whozatguy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2021, 05:48 PM   #28
K3rm1tth3fr0g
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 508105
Join Date: Nov 2019
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Greater Seattle Area
Vehicle:
Link G4X flex tuned
02' EJ205 20G 6MT wagon

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karlot View Post
dang i didnt look at when they were active lol. i just came across this and hoped. and yeah i do have a 2.5, the car is an 06 sti. i'm currently on a 20g, I would like to retain some spool characteristics but be able to make in the low to mid 500s. which i get either turbo could do. i'm also looking for real world info on the g30-770. it seems to be something that could do really well with the 2.5. i guess time will tell. mind if i pm you about y our setup
The 3576 gen 2 will spool almost as fast as your 20g but it will roll so much harder up top.

And snowbound is pretty much exactly right about the G Series. There was a lot of hype surrounding it and they are pretty great. But there are some genuine drawbacks when it is compared directly to the GTX Gen 2 Series. But you really can't beat the EFR turbos if you are wanting to say internally gated.

Go ahead and pm if you have more questions

Last edited by K3rm1tth3fr0g; 05-11-2021 at 06:38 PM.
K3rm1tth3fr0g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2021, 08:22 AM   #29
Karlot
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 339923
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Virginia
Vehicle:
2006 Impreza WRX STi
grey

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by snow_bound26 View Post
Through my research and discussions with Killer B, the G series turbos are not that much better than the Gen 2 GTX turbos. The one advantage they have in a better IWG design. Their biggest down side is they have a tendency to have issues with shaft speed and require a speed sensor when pushing them hard. For this reason it seems the GTX are better overall as they spool fast and don't have spinning too fast. If you want an IWG the EFR turbos might be your best bet and have a built in port for a speed sensor.

yeah i have seen alot of the efr's not carry as much up top without adding extra stuff. so i'm hesitant on those. i like garrett for the reliability they seem to provide under alot of abuse, which i definitely plan on doing lol. it's hard to find alot about the g series, but i'm leaning more and more towards the gtx gen2 lineup. just have to decide if the 3071 is enough or if i should jump to the 3576. hence all the research.




Quote:
Originally Posted by K3rm1tth3fr0g View Post
The 3576 gen 2 will spool almost as fast as your 20g but it will roll so much harder up top.

And snowbound is pretty much exactly right about the G Series. There was a lot of hype surrounding it and they are pretty great. But there are some genuine drawbacks when it is compared directly to the GTX Gen 2 Series. But you really can't beat the EFR turbos if you are wanting to say internally gated.

Go ahead and pm if you have more questions

i'll shoot you a pm shortly.
Karlot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2021, 01:14 PM   #30
Scuby04STi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 328635
Join Date: Aug 2012
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Portland*
Vehicle:
2004 STi GTX3076R
Rally Blue

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karlot View Post
yeah i have seen alot of the efr's not carry as much up top without adding extra stuff. so i'm hesitant on those. i like garrett for the reliability they seem to provide under alot of abuse, which i definitely plan on doing lol. it's hard to find alot about the g series, but i'm leaning more and more towards the gtx gen2 lineup. just have to decide if the 3071 is enough or if i should jump to the 3576. hence all the research.







i'll shoot you a pm shortly.
Gen 2 GTX3071 is the way to go IMO. It is very similar in power output as my older gen 1 gtx3076 and it made 500/500@ 26psi on E-85 holds power past 8,000rpm runs in the upper 10's@129mph (stopped due to fueling at the time). If/when I finally kill off my gen 1 or find another use for it so I can go gen 2 it will very likely be the 3071. Turbo has been on the 2 step a few hundred times at the drag strip, has between 40-50 hours of road course use (nearly all high rpm). I am very hard on it and its just chugging along even after tossing pebbles into the inlet at one point.
Scuby04STi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2021, 02:37 PM   #31
Karlot
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 339923
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Virginia
Vehicle:
2006 Impreza WRX STi
grey

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuby04STi View Post
Gen 2 GTX3071 is the way to go IMO. It is very similar in power output as my older gen 1 gtx3076 and it made 500/500@ 26psi on E-85 holds power past 8,000rpm runs in the upper 10's@129mph (stopped due to fueling at the time). If/when I finally kill off my gen 1 or find another use for it so I can go gen 2 it will very likely be the 3071. Turbo has been on the 2 step a few hundred times at the drag strip, has between 40-50 hours of road course use (nearly all high rpm). I am very hard on it and its just chugging along even after tossing pebbles into the inlet at one point.

i remember talking to you about your setup. initially i wanted the 3076 but now i cant decide if i should go bigger or BIGGER lol. coming from a 20g. the 71 will likely hit my goals and spool faster. but that extra power of the 3576 is just something i cant ignore. which is why the decision is so dang tough
Karlot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2021, 03:48 PM   #32
Scuby04STi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 328635
Join Date: Aug 2012
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Portland*
Vehicle:
2004 STi GTX3076R
Rally Blue

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Karlot View Post
i remember talking to you about your setup. initially i wanted the 3076 but now i cant decide if i should go bigger or BIGGER lol. coming from a 20g. the 71 will likely hit my goals and spool faster. but that extra power of the 3576 is just something i cant ignore. which is why the decision is so dang tough
Yeah, I 100% get that. I spent a lot of time looking and talking with Garrett, a fair amount of people seem to lean 3576 but in my experience the transient response is often overlooked when initial spool is close. My "conclusion" has been that the boost control at partial throttle and transient response is a lot less close when comparing the 3071 to the 3576 then if only looking at the initial spool.

I recently got a chance to drive a car with the gen 2 3576 and it was a let down to my gen 1 3076 when looking at control at part throttle and transient response. When it hit the powerband it was clear there is a large leap in overall power but it was not as smooth or enjoyable overall. But lets be honest, there are way to many factors with the cars I am comparing. Good example being one weighs like 3600lbs and mine is at 2800lbs. lol
Scuby04STi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2021, 03:56 PM   #33
Homemade WRX
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 33782
Join Date: Mar 2003
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Milton Keynes, UK
Vehicle:
96 3MI Racing
search FIRST, then PM!!!

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by whozatguy View Post
Motion Lab closed doors a couple years ago after getting into some legal troubles and shady business practices. If you search, I'm sure the details are still out there somewhere.
I did a double take when I saw their name get bumped up in the recent threads
Beat me to it
Homemade WRX is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-12-2021, 06:01 PM   #34
K3rm1tth3fr0g
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 508105
Join Date: Nov 2019
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Greater Seattle Area
Vehicle:
Link G4X flex tuned
02' EJ205 20G 6MT wagon

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuby04STi View Post
Yeah, I 100% get that. I spent a lot of time looking and talking with Garrett, a fair amount of people seem to lean 3576 but in my experience the transient response is often overlooked when initial spool is close. My "conclusion" has been that the boost control at partial throttle and transient response is a lot less close when comparing the 3071 to the 3576 then if only looking at the initial spool.

I recently got a chance to drive a car with the gen 2 3576 and it was a let down to my gen 1 3076 when looking at control at part throttle and transient response. When it hit the powerband it was clear there is a large leap in overall power but it was not as smooth or enjoyable overall. But lets be honest, there are way to many factors with the cars I am comparing. Good example being one weighs like 3600lbs and mine is at 2800lbs. lol
Just curious, was it a rotated or stock location 3576?

And was it on flex fuel?

The way I understand it, with all else being equal, the transient response between the 3071 and 3576 are very similar if you are past the boost threshold and everything is configured correctly. Albeit that threshold may be a few hundred PM later in the powerband vs the GT30.
K3rm1tth3fr0g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2021, 09:52 AM   #35
Karlot
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 339923
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Virginia
Vehicle:
2006 Impreza WRX STi
grey

Default

^^^

i too am curious.
Karlot is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2021, 12:51 PM   #36
Scuby04STi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 328635
Join Date: Aug 2012
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Portland*
Vehicle:
2004 STi GTX3076R
Rally Blue

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by K3rm1tth3fr0g View Post
Just curious, was it a rotated or stock location 3576?

And was it on flex fuel?

The way I understand it, with all else being equal, the transient response between the 3071 and 3576 are very similar if you are past the boost threshold and everything is configured correctly. Albeit that threshold may be a few hundred PM later in the powerband vs the GT30.
The 3576 was on a tail V band and the gen 1 3076 I have is on a Perrin 4 bolt kit. The 3576 had a flex set up and I have a specific tune for each fuel and just do a full fuel swap when changing the fuel type and map.

I know my set-up is generally more efficient then the car with the 3576 but mine is also more focused on high rpm power (272 cams, oversized valves, 75mmTB with 3" coldside pipe and 2.5" hot side pipe). I also have single AVCS and the other car was duel AVCS.

The way I see it is the difference in spool and transient response are close enough that most wouldn't really notice enough difference to leave 100whp or so on the table. I get that. They are similar, but not the same in transient response. But a gen2 3071 can make mid 500's at a reasonable boost level, so if that's the goal it's a waist to go bigger IMO.
Scuby04STi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2021, 01:06 PM   #37
K3rm1tth3fr0g
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 508105
Join Date: Nov 2019
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Greater Seattle Area
Vehicle:
Link G4X flex tuned
02' EJ205 20G 6MT wagon

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuby04STi View Post
the difference in spool and transient response are close enough that most wouldn't really notice enough difference to leave 100whp or so on the table.

This is my thought process. Both options are good. The 3576 will just allow the head to be built down the line for more power with almost the same response.

Last edited by K3rm1tth3fr0g; 05-13-2021 at 01:17 PM.
K3rm1tth3fr0g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-14-2021, 06:07 PM   #38
Scuby04STi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 328635
Join Date: Aug 2012
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Portland*
Vehicle:
2004 STi GTX3076R
Rally Blue

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by K3rm1tth3fr0g View Post
This is my thought process. Both options are good. The 3576 will just allow the head to be built down the line for more power with almost the same response.
Yeah, that is 100% logical. I just know what 500whp feels like, how often its usable and would take the feel of the 3071 over anything even slightly less responsive.

Don't get me wrong I LOVE going fast, I just have my opinions on the stopping point with a 2.5L that still falls under the DD category. Others might have a different view and that's A-ok.
Scuby04STi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2021, 03:09 AM   #39
silversurfer05
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 366241
Join Date: Aug 2013
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: broward county, Florida
Vehicle:
2009 09 wrx delivery
Dgm

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuby04STi View Post
Yeah, that is 100% logical. I just know what 500whp feels like, how often its usable and would take the feel of the 3071 over anything even slightly less responsive.

Don't get me wrong I LOVE going fast, I just have my opinions on the stopping point with a 2.5L that still falls under the DD category. Others might have a different view and that's A-ok.
You would absolutely hate me haha. Built block dd 60-1 looking to upgrade to 6466/6766 lol. I have very strange goals. Aiming for a bit over 5xx mustang on pump on this motor. Then 850 on race gas when I go closed deck
silversurfer05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2021, 12:43 PM   #40
Scuby04STi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 328635
Join Date: Aug 2012
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Portland*
Vehicle:
2004 STi GTX3076R
Rally Blue

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by silversurfer05 View Post
You would absolutely hate me haha. Built block dd 60-1 looking to upgrade to 6466/6766 lol. I have very strange goals. Aiming for a bit over 5xx mustang on pump on this motor. Then 850 on race gas when I go closed deck
Zero hate, just know what I can do with 500-550whp and it is already at the limits of the breaking system without ditching the Brembo's for a larger rotor/caliper option. If you have more power just don't plan to get to use it freely, you will need to cool the car to enjoy it at the max.

We all have our preference, the people that get hung up on everyone needing to like what they do are always going to be annoyed. I just try to help give a prospective then let people do what they want and be happy. LOL
Scuby04STi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2021, 01:04 PM   #41
K3rm1tth3fr0g
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 508105
Join Date: Nov 2019
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Greater Seattle Area
Vehicle:
Link G4X flex tuned
02' EJ205 20G 6MT wagon

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scuby04STi View Post
Zero hate, just know what I can do with 500-550whp and it is already at the limits of the breaking system without ditching the Brembo's for a larger rotor/caliper option. If you have more power just don't plan to get to use it freely, you will need to cool the car to enjoy it at the max.

We all have our preference, the people that get hung up on everyone needing to like what they do are always going to be annoyed. I just try to help give a prospective then let people do what they want and be happy. LOL
To be fair, 500WHP+ being pushed to the limit on track is different than 500WHP being used to have some fun on the street.

There are lots of folks who haven't gone insane with their builds and still have stockish brakes but still make 500+. The trick is to not overdrive the car beyond its limits as is hopefully obvious.
K3rm1tth3fr0g is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-17-2021, 02:29 PM   #42
Scuby04STi
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 328635
Join Date: Aug 2012
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Portland*
Vehicle:
2004 STi GTX3076R
Rally Blue

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by K3rm1tth3fr0g View Post
To be fair, 500WHP+ being pushed to the limit on track is different than 500WHP being used to have some fun on the street.

There are lots of folks who haven't gone insane with their builds and still have stockish brakes but still make 500+. The trick is to not overdrive the car beyond its limits as is hopefully obvious.
True, the roads at the end of my driveway are just a bit closer to "track duty" so my opinion is a tad sued. I have a nearly perfect 30 mile country road loop that you can just touch the top of 4th before needing to rain it back for the next set of turns.
Scuby04STi is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:03 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission
Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.