Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Saturday July 31, 2021
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC Miscellaneous > Off-Topic

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 12-27-2009, 12:00 PM   #1
4x4GGG
RIP Donny
 
Member#: 12686
Join Date: Nov 2001
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Leesburg, VA
Vehicle:
2017 Escape SE

Default Official Kayak & Canoe Thread

In the market. Didn't know there were sooo many choices out there to make.

We first wanted a tandem, assuming either my niece or friends or what ever. Found out that if you get a 2 man, you need 2 men. Solo operation of a tandem is quite difficult.

Sit in vs sit on. Although the first salesman we talked to was pretty comfortable with sit in, the rest we met thru the day seemed to push the Sit On versions. I agreed with them. I don't think I would want to be paddling from with in a bath tub.

Longer vs Shorter. From what I gather the longer ones can travel faster and tend to track straighter, while the shorter ones can turn on a dime and maneuver anywhere.

So OT... anything I missed or need to know before cashing in my Christmas present?

For the record, I'm leaning towards:

Ocean Kayak, The Frenzy.

* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
4x4GGG is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 12-27-2009, 12:06 PM   #2
just smurfy
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 135893
Join Date: Dec 2006
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: right here
Vehicle:
2017 STI
WRB

Default

You need to answer more questions.

1) What kind of water do you want to paddle on? (ocean, lakes, rivers)
2) What is your budget
3) Do you want to be able to increase your skills in kayaking, or just dink around?
4) Do you want to do more floating, or do you want to be actually going places?
5) What are you going to be doing from the kayak (fishing, cruising, surfing, etc)
just smurfy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2009, 12:21 PM   #3
kevin85193
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 145900
Join Date: Apr 2007
Chapter/Region: Tri-State
Location: asbury park nj
Vehicle:
2003 16g wagon sold
05 SWP LGT

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by just smurfy View Post
You need to answer more questions.

1) What kind of water do you want to paddle on? (ocean, lakes, rivers)
2) What is your budget
3) Do you want to be able to increase your skills in kayaking, or just dink around?
4) Do you want to do more floating, or do you want to be actually going places?
5) What are you going to be doing from the kayak (fishing, cruising, surfing, etc)
We will help after the questions are answered!
kevin85193 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2009, 12:57 PM   #4
Mike Wevrick
RIP 1/19/64 - 7/23/11
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 24654
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: saraseager.com
Vehicle:
1957 Taggart Comet
atlasshruggedpart1.com

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4GGG View Post
I don't think I would want to be paddling from with in a bath tub.
A "sit-in" kayak is not like a bathtub at all. Have you actually test-paddled any boats? You really need to do that to make a good decision.
Mike Wevrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2009, 01:09 PM   #5
4x4GGG
RIP Donny
 
Member#: 12686
Join Date: Nov 2001
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Leesburg, VA
Vehicle:
2017 Escape SE

Default

For me it will be all bay paddling. Very mild chop.

Up to ~$700.*

For the most part I'll be using it for fun, exploring, exercising. I live right on the Assawoman bay, and I intend to roll thru all the little dock areas and check out houses, etc. Maybe into the bay to play on some sandbars...

Cruising for me, mostly.

*This is a house present from my mother to my brother and I who live together. She offered up to about $800 for a tandem for the 2 of us to alternate using. We found out tandems were out of the question. I found one in the mid $300's (8 foot, top, pretty basic) that seemed to fit my needs and thought of the idea of picking out 2 singles.

I know my wants are completely different for my brother and I. He's gonna want to do some fishing from his, maybe taking it over to the ocean side and do some surfing, deep bay ****... who knows.
4x4GGG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2009, 01:57 PM   #6
4x4GGG
RIP Donny
 
Member#: 12686
Join Date: Nov 2001
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Leesburg, VA
Vehicle:
2017 Escape SE

Default

I think he'd have fun in the white X's, and I'll be looking to hit the red lines. We live in the red circle.

4x4GGG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2009, 02:01 PM   #7
Damn Yankee
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 53066
Join Date: Jan 2004
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: I guess a legend and an out of
Vehicle:
work bum look a lot
alike, daddy.

Default

paging WhiteH20....
Damn Yankee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2009, 02:16 PM   #8
Mike Wevrick
RIP 1/19/64 - 7/23/11
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 24654
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: saraseager.com
Vehicle:
1957 Taggart Comet
atlasshruggedpart1.com

Default

Quote:
I know my wants are completely different for my brother and I. He's gonna want to do some fishing from his, maybe taking it over to the ocean side and do some surfing, deep bay ****... who knows.
Definitely get 2 different singles, then. You can still go out together of course
Mike Wevrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2009, 02:32 PM   #9
4x4GGG
RIP Donny
 
Member#: 12686
Join Date: Nov 2001
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Leesburg, VA
Vehicle:
2017 Escape SE

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Wevrick View Post
Definitely get 2 different singles, then. You can still go out together of course
Yeah... I don't see that happeneing. It's nice that he works days I work nights. even if we just get 1 nice kayak instead of 2, we'll both have time to spend on it. I'm so stoked!
4x4GGG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2009, 02:43 PM   #10
just smurfy
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 135893
Join Date: Dec 2006
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: right here
Vehicle:
2017 STI
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4GGG View Post
For me it will be all bay paddling. Very mild chop.

Up to ~$700.*

For the most part I'll be using it for fun, exploring, exercising. I live right on the Assawoman bay, and I intend to roll thru all the little dock areas and check out houses, etc. Maybe into the bay to play on some sandbars...

Cruising for me, mostly.

*This is a house present from my mother to my brother and I who live together. She offered up to about $800 for a tandem for the 2 of us to alternate using. We found out tandems were out of the question. I found one in the mid $300's (8 foot, top, pretty basic) that seemed to fit my needs and thought of the idea of picking out 2 singles.

I know my wants are completely different for my brother and I. He's gonna want to do some fishing from his, maybe taking it over to the ocean side and do some surfing, deep bay ****... who knows.
Nevermind.

Last edited by just smurfy; 12-27-2009 at 03:18 PM.
just smurfy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2009, 03:06 PM   #11
4x4GGG
RIP Donny
 
Member#: 12686
Join Date: Nov 2001
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Leesburg, VA
Vehicle:
2017 Escape SE

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by just smurfy View Post

And a lifejacket, of course.
Thanks Mom!
4x4GGG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2009, 03:07 PM   #12
L Bo
RIP Brother
 
Member#: 8739
Join Date: Jul 2001
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: ~ 38.45 -75.05
Default

^^^ thanks for teh info

I am pretty much set on a "sit-on" model, at first I wanted a sit in but have changed my mind. I would like to use it 10-11 months of the year and a sit on kinda concerns me with the cold water, even though there are scupper plugs you can get I'd imagine you'd still get wet.

There are three I am torn between and other then length and location of storage I don't see much difference;







Besides farting around the back bays I plan to access a few fishing holes that are close by with it. I guess rod holders are an accessory item that can be installed in any of these.


Quote:
Originally Posted by just smurfy View Post
And a lifejacket, of course.
ok mom
L Bo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2009, 03:13 PM   #13
Damn Yankee
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 53066
Join Date: Jan 2004
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: I guess a legend and an out of
Vehicle:
work bum look a lot
alike, daddy.

Default

Storage in front of you = easier to access while you're on the water, without getting IN the water. I'd go Maui, though it looks like there may be less leg room, and IIRC you are pretty tall boys...
Damn Yankee is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2009, 03:15 PM   #14
4x4GGG
RIP Donny
 
Member#: 12686
Join Date: Nov 2001
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Leesburg, VA
Vehicle:
2017 Escape SE

Default

We're both about 6'.
4x4GGG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2009, 03:18 PM   #15
just smurfy
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 135893
Join Date: Dec 2006
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: right here
Vehicle:
2017 STI
WRB

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4GGG View Post
Thanks Mom!
. This smart ass response is what I get for spending my time on yoar thread? I was merely reminding you of everything your budget needs to cover. Next time I'll know better. I seriously hope you go for a long swim in the ocean without a vest and water fills your lungs.
just smurfy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2009, 03:24 PM   #16
Mike Wevrick
RIP 1/19/64 - 7/23/11
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 24654
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: saraseager.com
Vehicle:
1957 Taggart Comet
atlasshruggedpart1.com

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eye one View Post
I am pretty much set on a "sit-on" model, at first I wanted a sit in but have changed my mind. I would like to use it 10-11 months of the year and a sit on kinda concerns me with the cold water, even though there are scupper plugs you can get I'd imagine you'd still get wet.
Your logic is backwards. With a sit-on model you are guaranteed to get wet. I would not want to use one with cold weather. With a sit-in model you wear a "skirt" that seals to a cockpit and keeps water out of the boat. Your lower body stays dry. For bad weather you wear a dry top or semi-dry top. example:

Mike Wevrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2009, 03:24 PM   #17
4x4GGG
RIP Donny
 
Member#: 12686
Join Date: Nov 2001
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Leesburg, VA
Vehicle:
2017 Escape SE

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by just smurfy View Post
Since your budget is <$700, you're definately looking at roto-moulded plastic, the most common and cheapest kayak construction material.

Upsides to sit-on-tops:

1) Sit-on-tops are good as a fishing platform for bays and the ocean, since you don't need any skills to be able to get back on it if you were to fall off or tip over. Since sit-on-tops can't fill with water, you don't have to worry about that either.

2) Sit-on-tops are good for people who are uncomfortable with having their feet inside and semi-restrained, and they're also good for those who don't have good paddling/kayak skills.

3) They're very stable platforms for fishing, photography, or as a SCUBA base.

4) They're inexpensive.

Downsides:

1) Short sit-on-tops can't go fast, so you're going to be at the mercy of heavy currents. Don't take the kayak where the currents are going to take you where you don't want to go.

2) Sit-on-tops basically make you sit in the water all day vs traditional kayaks where you can be completely sealed from the elements. If the water is going to be cold, you need to either wear fully waterproof pants/dry suit or....be miserable. They also don't have large waterproof holds for keeping your gear dry.

3) They tend to be heavy and wide, so they take more effort to go a distance.

4) The seats are often not as comfortable as the newer traditional kayaks.

5) You can't carry as much gear with one (like for overnight trips, etc).



Basically, if you just want a platform for dinking around a bay with little to no current - and not travel very far, without having to learn much in the way of skills, and you've got gear to keep you dry (or are in warm water) - then a sit-on-top is the way to go. If I were you, I'd rent a few before settling on one. Be sure to buy a QUALITY paddle - a lightweight one with the appropriately-sized blades or else your arms/body/shoulders will tire quickly.
We're both n00bs as far as kayaks go, but living on the water looks like it'll be a lot of fun and a good work out for us both.

I can't say I'm too worried about hauling anything that won't fit in a zip lock bag under my leg, such as a camera and cell phone. No way would I plan on doing over night stuff, but good looking out.

Like I said, mostly I plan on doing some exploring sticking close to land.

What, as far as paddles, should we be looking for as a proper fit? Length? Paddle size? Ect? How do we know whats right?
4x4GGG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2009, 03:25 PM   #18
4x4GGG
RIP Donny
 
Member#: 12686
Join Date: Nov 2001
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Leesburg, VA
Vehicle:
2017 Escape SE

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by just smurfy View Post
. This smart ass response is what I get for spending my time on yoar thread? I was merely reminding you of everything your budget needs to cover. Next time I'll know better. I seriously hope you go for a long swim in the ocean without a vest and water fills your lungs.

Um... I was working on it?
4x4GGG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2009, 03:27 PM   #19
4x4GGG
RIP Donny
 
Member#: 12686
Join Date: Nov 2001
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Leesburg, VA
Vehicle:
2017 Escape SE

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Wevrick View Post
Your logic is backwards. With a sit-on model you are guaranteed to get wet. I would not want to use one with cold weather. With a sit-in model you wear a "skirt" that seals to a cockpit and keeps water out of the boat. Your lower body stays dry. For bad weather you wear a dry top or semi-dry top. example:


I hope to spend the same amount of time on mine, but fully prepared with foul weather gear. My biggest fear is water in the kayak. I'd much rather deal with splash on/roll off than sitting in cold water. I won't lie... that whole in the boat with a skirt getting flipped thing scares the hell out of me.
4x4GGG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2009, 03:36 PM   #20
WhiteH2O
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 452
Join Date: Oct 1999
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Gig Harbor, WA
Vehicle:
'06 Lexus GX470
'15 VW Golf TDI

Default

I have a lot of time in/on both sit on top and sit inside kayaks. For what you are wanting, I would go sit inside no questions. Sit on top kayaks are better when you don't mind being more wet, you want to be able to get out and back in in the water (diving and swimming), and you will be in warm water all the time. My flatwater racing boats are sit on top (surfski) and they are a lot colder during the winter, and it is difficult to paddle even in flat water without getting wet.

I have paddled the Frenzy that you have listed in the first post, and I thought it was a very slow pig. Stable as a barge, but you don't need something stable enough to fly fish out of while standing up.

If I were in your situation, I would try to find something that is about 14' long and 23" wide. Get a comfortable life jacket, spraydeck, and a good paddle. You don't have to spring for a carbon paddle, but the lighter paddles make kayaking a lot more fun. The best advise that I can give you is to go find a store that will let you try a lot of different kinds of kayaks, and try as many as you can. Even try the long fast expensive ones just to see what is all out there and what is available. Once you paddle at least 5 boats, then you will have a better idea of what fits you and what feels best for you. Also try to find a group of kayakers to tag along with to get some good ideas from. I always try to go paddling with different groups to get a broad range of knowledge from different groups. Also, if one of them has a boat that looks like fun, ask if you can take it for a quick paddle. Most paddlers love to swap boats around to get a feel for what is out there.

For the budget you are looking to stay with, I would certainly try to find a used boat. All the boats that are in the $700ish range suck ass. They will be very heavy, slow, and not a lot of fun to paddle. This is a sad thing about kayaking that I have seen lately, is that people think kayaking looks like fun, but they don't want to spend a lot of money to get into it. They go out and get an inexpensive boat that isn't fun to paddle, and they think kayaking isn't fun because they don't have good gear. The good news is that places like Craigslist have lots of fairly nice used kayaks for good prices.

Something like:
http://annapolis.craigslist.org/boa/1508255211.html

Last edited by WhiteH2O; 12-27-2009 at 03:50 PM.
WhiteH2O is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2009, 03:43 PM   #21
L Bo
RIP Brother
 
Member#: 8739
Join Date: Jul 2001
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: ~ 38.45 -75.05
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by just smurfy View Post
. This smart ass response is what I get for spending my time on yoar thread? I was merely reminding you of everything your budget needs to cover. Next time I'll know better. I seriously hope you go for a long swim in the ocean without a vest and water fills your lungs.
LOL, of course a life jacket is in order but the whole time our MOM would remind us not to forget the life jacket.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike Wevrick View Post
Your logic is backwards. With a sit-on model you are guaranteed to get wet. I would not want to use one with cold weather. With a sit-in model you wear a "skirt" that seals to a cockpit and keeps water out of the boat. Your lower body stays dry. For bad weather you wear a dry top or semi-dry top. example:
Yeah, that's what I meant. I like the idea of a sit on but the cold water makes me want to lean towards the sit in with a skirt.

Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiteH2O View Post
I have a lot of time in/on both sit on top and sit inside kayaks. For what you are wanting, I would go sit inside no questions. Sit on top kayaks are better when you don't mind being more wet, you want to be able to get out and back in in the water (diving and swimming), and you will be in warm water all the time. My flatwater racing boats are sit on top (surfski) and they are a lot colder during the winter, and it is difficult to paddle even in flat water without getting wet.

I have paddled the Frenzy that you have listed in the first post, and I thought it was a very slow pig. Stable as a barge, but you don't need something stable enough to fly fish out of while standing up.

If I were in your situation, I would try to find something that is about 14' long and 23" wide. Get a comfortable life jacket, spraydeck, and a good paddle. You don't have to spring for a carbon paddle, but the lighter paddles make kayaking a lot more fun.

I will look around to see if I can come up with a good example of what I would recommend.
huh......... back to being undecided

The salespeople we talked to ALL suggested the sit on because they are easier to manuever whereas the sit-in version you must work on finding you balance and the hassle of getting water in it.

Thanks for the info
L Bo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2009, 03:51 PM   #22
4x4GGG
RIP Donny
 
Member#: 12686
Join Date: Nov 2001
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Leesburg, VA
Vehicle:
2017 Escape SE

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by eye one View Post

huh......... back to being undecided

The salespeople we talked to ALL suggested the sit on because they are easier to manuever whereas the sit-in version you must work on finding you balance and the hassle of getting water in it.

Thanks for the info
The first guy we talked to spoke as you did. He was all about the sit in style. I kinda tuned him out as I saw more potential for hoping in and out and being maneuverable. From then on the next 3 places we visited all said sit on top.

Now you have me thinking too...
4x4GGG is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2009, 04:00 PM   #23
WhiteH2O
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 452
Join Date: Oct 1999
Chapter/Region: NWIC
Location: Gig Harbor, WA
Vehicle:
'06 Lexus GX470
'15 VW Golf TDI

Default

I really don't like the sit on top boats for this type of paddling.

Anyone that says that a sit on top kayak is more maneuverable is completely oversimplifying things. Sit on top kayaks are generally shorter and wider, two things that make it a lot easier to turn, but two things that make a kayak slower, and much more stable than you need it to be. A sit in kayak that is around 14' long and 23-24" will be a good combination of speed and maneuverability. A kayak being sit in or sit on doesn't change anything as far as speed and maneuverability are concerned, it is just that the sit on top boats are made for people who don't paddle much, aren't going to go more than a mile or two (in general) and are very afraid of tipping over. My everyday kayak is 17" wide and I have never fallen out of it, you aren't oing to fall out of a 24" wide kayak.

Also, maneuverability is somewhat important, but don't underestimate speed. If you are going to be paddling around the large boat docks 100% of the time, I wouldn't worry about speed, but those short and wide boats are very very slow, and that gets frustrating really fast. Even a 2" difference in beam makes a big difference in speed.

Again, I would say to go paddle a lot of different kayaks to see what you like. Don't go paddle one for 3-4 minutes, take it out for long enough that you get a good feel for it. If you paddle in circles next to the dock, you are not going to get the feel of what it is like in a straight line, so make sure you go for a paddle that resembles what you will be doing on a standard paddle once you get it.
WhiteH2O is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2009, 04:03 PM   #24
Mike Wevrick
RIP 1/19/64 - 7/23/11
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 24654
Join Date: Sep 2002
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: saraseager.com
Vehicle:
1957 Taggart Comet
atlasshruggedpart1.com

Default

edit: I agree you should look for a used boat. For the same price as a new one, you can find much better lightly-used ones.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4GGG View Post
I won't lie... that whole in the boat with a skirt getting flipped thing scares the hell out of me.
Yes, that is scary if you are not used to it. You need to go out with a partner and practice rolling over, pulling the skirt loose, and swimming out. Then learn to roll the kayak back up rather than bailing out.
Mike Wevrick is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-27-2009, 04:06 PM   #25
Machine Age Victim
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 29961
Join Date: Nov 2002
Chapter/Region: South East
Location: my job is a hobbie to most
Vehicle:
2008 Honda Element
1975 Triumph Spitfire

Default

just checking in because I belong in here
Machine Age Victim is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
OFFICIAL Machinist & Metalworkers Thread WC LATHE WERKS Off-Topic 116 11-03-2020 09:26 PM
The Interior & Seat & Cage Thread scoogan Member's Car Gallery 277 05-07-2016 05:27 PM
Kayak or Canoe? MK19_ Off-Topic 84 08-24-2009 03:10 PM
This weeks official Doom & Gloom thread....Jeanne GreenMarine South East Region Forum 107 09-27-2004 04:30 PM
Columbus & Cincinnati Official Hocking Hills Planning Thread nhalterman Mid West Subaru Owners Club Forum -- MWSOC 13 09-13-2002 04:43 PM

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 01:44 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2021 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.