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Old 05-04-2021, 02:03 PM   #51
RealDealTarheel
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I wouldn't mind if it had zero additional horsepowers, just don't like the idea of a 3 popper. Seems like it would be awfully strung out to make 300hp.
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Old 05-04-2021, 02:45 PM   #52
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At least the 3-cylinder sounds better than the majority of 4-cylinder engines.
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Old 05-04-2021, 03:56 PM   #53
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Well this is JDM documentation, not USDM. It wouldn't surprise me one bit to see them import it then no front or rear LSD to keep the price in check.


I just have a hard time believing they are going to recreate that special car, the GR4, like this. I just watched two videos on the Golf R being compared to the GR4 and the Toyota pooped all over the new Golf, especially steering feel, handling, and overall engagement. USDM just gets screwed every time. And I hope I am wrong. I hope Toyota recreates all the magic of the GR4 with this. Steering feel, front and rear LSD's, all of it. Just have a hard time believing it.
+1 I haven't driven a Corolla but reviews say it's boring to drive. So I'd only consider this GR Corolla if it drives like a heavier GR4, rather than a Corolla with more power.

I'm skeptical cause a base Civic is fun to drive, unlike the Corolla, so Toyota needs to work some magic with the tuning of the steering and handling. I think it'll probably need the diffs to be as fun as the competition too.

Do all that, and I'll buy one, I think it looks (not great) but very purposeful. And it's big enough to be a daily for me - the GR4 probably would have to be the garage toy.
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Old 05-04-2021, 03:57 PM   #54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RealDealTarheel View Post
I wouldn't mind if it had zero additional horsepowers, just don't like the idea of a 3 popper. Seems like it would be awfully strung out to make 300hp.
Listen to the sound of the 3 cylinder in the BMW i8 - 3 cylinders are awesome, even the Ford one sounds nice.
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Old 05-04-2021, 04:03 PM   #55
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Listen to the sound of the 3 cylinder in the BMW i8 - 3 cylinders are awesome, even the Ford one sounds nice.
My concern isn't the sound, it's the durability.
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Old 05-04-2021, 06:53 PM   #56
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You need to open yo mind craig
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Old 05-04-2021, 07:46 PM   #57
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Originally Posted by VarmintCong View Post
+1 I haven't driven a Corolla but reviews say it's boring to drive. So I'd only consider this GR Corolla if it drives like a heavier GR4, rather than a Corolla with more power.

I'm skeptical cause a base Civic is fun to drive, unlike the Corolla, so Toyota needs to work some magic with the tuning of the steering and handling. I think it'll probably need the diffs to be as fun as the competition too.

Do all that, and I'll buy one, I think it looks (not great) but very purposeful. And it's big enough to be a daily for me - the GR4 probably would have to be the garage toy.
I drive the most boring Corolla version there is for everyday driving and I can tell you the boringness comes only from what they tuned it for: a commuter-mobile. And excelling at being a commuter-mobile makes it boring...The engine, transmission, and suspension is purposely built boring — the exact things GR treatment fixes.

The TNGA chassis is solid and feels like it can take so much more in suspension, tire grip, and power. Steering is precise. Fit and finish is excellent especially with the Premium trim I got. I’m actually very satisfied with the platform Toyota has with the Corolla. So, judging by the reviews of the Yaris... Getting that same GR treatment would solve that boring problem. But yes, it all hinges on the GR treatment carrying over.
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Old 05-04-2021, 07:49 PM   #58
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I liked my Corolla. Was great for not caring about it and getting in and driving.
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Old 05-05-2021, 12:49 AM   #59
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RealDealTarheel View Post
My concern isn't the sound, it's the durability.


Agreed! I could’ve sworn there were one or two of these blown up on YouTube already. This 3 popper with a possible 300-400lb deficit over the Yaris isn’t giving me the warm and fuzzies.

Edit: Never mind, dude mis-shifted and over revved...
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Old 05-05-2021, 07:35 AM   #60
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Oh I'm sure they'll make it through warranty, it's just what about after? When they do have problems will they be as big a pain in the ass as Ford's 3cyl? They could be fine, but 300hp is a fair amount of power out of something with three pistons.
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Old 05-05-2021, 07:58 AM   #61
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I drive the most boring Corolla version there is for everyday driving and I can tell you the boringness comes only from what they tuned it for: a commuter-mobile. And excelling at being a commuter-mobile makes it boring...The engine, transmission, and suspension is purposely built boring — the exact things GR treatment fixes.

The TNGA chassis is solid and feels like it can take so much more in suspension, tire grip, and power. Steering is precise. Fit and finish is excellent especially with the Premium trim I got. I’m actually very satisfied with the platform Toyota has with the Corolla. So, judging by the reviews of the Yaris... Getting that same GR treatment would solve that boring problem. But yes, it all hinges on the GR treatment carrying over.
Ok that makes sense. I’m actually fine with 270 hp straight from the GR4. More important are the diffs for me. That would seal the deal if we get those.
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Old 05-05-2021, 12:02 PM   #62
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Ok that makes sense. I'm actually fine with 270 hp straight from the GR4. More important are the diffs for me. That would seal the deal if we get those.
Yeah I'm a fan of LSDs/magical power splitting too. I'm putting some faith in Toyota with this. Fingers crossed.
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Old 05-05-2021, 02:52 PM   #63
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I don't know why people are getting hung up on it being 3 cylinders. The displacement of 1.6L isn't that small considering there's been plenty of 4 cylinder engines at the same or less displacement. MB is making over 400 hp out of 2.0L.
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Old 05-05-2021, 03:41 PM   #64
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I don't know why people are getting hung up on it being 3 cylinders. The displacement of 1.6L isn't that small considering there's been plenty of 4 cylinder engines at the same or less displacement. MB is making over 400 hp out of 2.0L.
I was told there would be no kink shaming....
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Old 05-05-2021, 05:06 PM   #65
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I don't know why people are getting hung up on it being 3 cylinders. The displacement of 1.6L isn't that small considering there's been plenty of 4 cylinder engines at the same or less displacement. MB is making over 400 hp out of 2.0L.
Because being new and different is bad of course
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Old 05-05-2021, 05:17 PM   #66
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Because being new and different is bad of course
Please quote someone citing new and different as their reasoning.
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Old 05-05-2021, 05:45 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by RealDealTarheel View Post
I was told there would be no kink shaming....
I'll admit, nearly 300 hp from a 1.6L 3-pot may seem like much.
But, we have the PSA/BMW 1.6L 4-pot pushing 270 hp (Peugeot RCZ. now dearly departed...) and Renault/Nissan still pushes their 1.8L I4 to nearly 300 hp (Megane R.S. and Alpine A110).
So, it *seems* like the each cylinder in the 3 pot will have to pick up and share the load of the missing 4th cylinder.
But, when looking at the firing interval it's longer at 240 degrees vs 180 degrees for an I4.
So, there's that extra 60 degree of crankshaft rotation for things to "rest" up before having to fire again. Just thinking out loud here.
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Old 05-05-2021, 06:10 PM   #68
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Please quote someone citing new and different as their reasoning.
Its a joke son! Im too fast for ya! /foghorn leghorn
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Old 05-05-2021, 06:11 PM   #69
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Originally Posted by neg_matnik View Post
I'll admit, nearly 300 hp from a 1.6L 3-pot may seem like much.
But, we have the PSA/BMW 1.6L 4-pot pushing 270 hp (Peugeot RCZ. now dearly departed...) and Renault/Nissan still pushes their 1.8L I4 to nearly 300 hp (Megane R.S. and Alpine A110).
So, it *seems* like the each cylinder in the 3 pot will have to pick up and share the load of the missing 4th cylinder.
But, when looking at the firing interval it's longer at 240 degrees vs 180 degrees for an I4.
So, there's that extra 60 degree of crankshaft rotation for things to "rest" up before having to fire again. Just thinking out loud here.
Good thinking.

And to my thinking, with only three cylinders, there is likely more torque available versus a four with the same displacement. No?
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Old 05-05-2021, 06:21 PM   #70
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Its a joke son! Im too fast for ya! /foghorn leghorn
No U. /Uno.
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Old 05-05-2021, 07:56 PM   #71
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Youre a towel?
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Old 05-05-2021, 09:09 PM   #72
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Good thinking.

And to my thinking, with only three cylinders, there is likely more torque available versus a four with the same displacement. No?
Yeah, I'd think so as well.
Given the same overall displacement, the I3 has bigger/larger cylinders (given the choice, I'd go for extra stroke with correspondingly longer and stronger rods).
I'm personally sold on I3s, I have driven a couple of Peugeot cars with their 1.2L turbo I3 and it's a feisty little engine.
I find them very satisfying to drive even with a modest 128 hp output; surely way better than the previous 1.6L N/A they used before.
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Old 05-06-2021, 06:28 PM   #73
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Whoa, this is the first I've seen the NA version getting the AWD. Everywhere else has said we would see the engine and 6MT, but FWD so it lost it's excitement to me.

I've wanted to get back into Subaru for a while, but no hatch/wagon kept me away. I'm happy with my B8.5 S4 6MT for now and my next car was going to be a next gen STi or MK8 R, but if this Corolla GR looks this good, with ~300hp 6MT AWD, then I'm sold. Looks fantastic!

Go figure, search Google for info, figure I'd randomly pop into NASIOC to see what's going on and find info on the car I couldn't find on Google lol.
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Old 05-06-2021, 09:51 PM   #74
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And to my thinking, with only three cylinders, there is likely more torque available versus a four with the same displacement. No?
No. The opposite is true. As Neg mentioned above the fewer the cylinders the further the crankshaft has to turn before the next power stroke. For a 3cyl to make as much torque as a 4cyl (with everything else being equal) it needs a heavier flywheel to store energy between power strokes. A heavier flywheel means more rotational inertia, which means it is not as free revving. One of the advantages of using more cylinders is being able to run lighter and lighter flywheels.

I am not a fan of the 3cyl thing partially because of the above, and partially because it is a horribly imbalanced engine layout. The imbalance requires a (heavier, on a per cylinder basis) counterbalance shaft which again increases rotational inertia. An inline 4cyl is not great in the balance arena, but it's better than the 3. The advantage of the 3cyl is packaging. Not my cup of tea though.

Brandon
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Old 05-06-2021, 10:02 PM   #75
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No. The opposite is true. As Neg mentioned above the fewer the cylinders the further the crankshaft has to turn before the next power stroke. For a 3cyl to make as much torque as a 4cyl (with everything else being equal) it needs a heavier flywheel to store energy between power strokes. A heavier flywheel means more rotational inertia, which means it is not as free revving. One of the advantages of using more cylinders is being able to run lighter and lighter flywheels.

I am not a fan of the 3cyl thing partially because of the above, and partially because it is a horribly imbalanced engine layout. The imbalance requires a (heavier, on a per cylinder basis) counterbalance shaft which again increases rotational inertia. An inline 4cyl is not great in the balance arena, but it's better than the 3. The advantage of the 3cyl is packaging. Not my cup of tea though.

Brandon
The Ford 1.0L 3 cylinder reportedly has no balance shaft.

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Ford 1.0 Ecoboost engine cleverly avoided balancer shaft by using an unbalanced flywheel and pulley to shift the first order vibration from vertical to transverse orientation, which is easier to be absorbed by better engine mounts and clutch damper. The result is remarkable refinement.
I've not driven a 3 cylinder yet, but the Europeans rave about the Fords.

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It's true, the big headline change in the new Fiesta ST is the switch from the 1.6-litre four-cylinder to a 1.5 triple, but this brand new engine is based on Ford's award-winning 1.0-litre EcoBoost; a work of internal-combustion magic. The new ST's power unit is fruity, fizzy and full of personality, and somehow - out of just three cylinders - Ford has extracted a remarkable 200bhp and 214lb ft from it.

One more thing - the new Fiesta ST sounds fantastic. In Sport or Race mode at idle, the ST's three cylinders burble and warble like a rally car. Increase the revs and you'll find the Fiesta ST has a crisp, clear characterful tone - and even sounds good on the over run. It's not all about the noise, but it's nice to have a equally natural engaging soundtrack.
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