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Old 02-11-2019, 11:59 PM   #51
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At least Doll didn't try to define a segment.
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Old 02-12-2019, 12:00 AM   #52
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Performance is more defined in the low-volume segment.
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Old 02-12-2019, 01:04 AM   #53
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Tom Doll's gonna say some words and here's what to expect
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Old 02-12-2019, 08:50 AM   #54
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That makes zero sense to me. They want to wait until their stock wanes before they'd invest more time and money into a turbo model?

If anything it makes more sense to sell a higher trim, premium model while sales are high, because you're more guaranteed to sell them.

We can't get enough of the current offerings. Now you want them to take up capacity making something more expensive that won't move as much? Making us wait longer for a car someone actually wants? That's the thought process.


Now, I think it is worth a try; but, it's very rare I hear any talk about the power of the Crosstrek. If someone opts for something else, it is always size that is the reason. Not the power. The only power complaints I see/hear are from magazines and here. I think it would be cool to have another option. Was just talking with someone last night about waaay long ago when the Impreza actually had 3 options for a blink. Until Subaru can get their act together, I don't think they'll complicate their inventory complexity too much more.
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Old 02-12-2019, 12:32 PM   #55
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Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
We can't get enough of the current offerings. Now you want them to take up capacity making something more expensive that won't move as much? Making us wait longer for a car someone actually wants? That's the thought process.


Now, I think it is worth a try; but, it's very rare I hear any talk about the power of the Crosstrek. If someone opts for something else, it is always size that is the reason. Not the power. The only power complaints I see/hear are from magazines and here. I think it would be cool to have another option. Was just talking with someone last night about waaay long ago when the Impreza actually had 3 options for a blink. Until Subaru can get their act together, I don't think they'll complicate their inventory complexity too much more.
Their capacity isn't the problem with that idea. It's good that they're at capacity. That means they're selling. My problem is that if they AREN'T at capacity, then that's indicative of a larger issue that a turbo Crosstrek won't solve.

I know there's been a discussion of whether Subaru should build more cars or sell what they have at a higher price. I think competition is catching up with them a little, or Subaru is falling behind with their offerings, and they should just stay where they're at unless they're ready for some radical changes. They're overly conservative though.

I thought Subaru was planning on putting a turbo in all their cars in the near future? Why does the FB20 exist when the FB25 makes more power and pretty much the same gas mileage? Where's the FB16DIT?

For what these cars are in general, yes, they don't need more power. But more power would make them more useful and they'd sell more guaranteed. I've driven a few NA Subies around the country and a turbo Outback. Zero complaints about the OBXT driving from east coast to Alaska. More complaints about the BRZ and Crosstrek. 17 Impreza seems to handle it well enough that we're doing another x-country road trip in May/June. Power isn't everything, but it's definitely a factor.
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Old 02-12-2019, 01:43 PM   #56
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We can't get enough of the current offerings. Now you want them to take up capacity making something more expensive that won't move as much? Making us wait longer for a car someone actually wants? That's the thought process.


Now, I think it is worth a try; but, it's very rare I hear any talk about the power of the Crosstrek. If someone opts for something else, it is always size that is the reason. Not the power. The only power complaints I see/hear are from magazines and here. I think it would be cool to have another option. Was just talking with someone last night about waaay long ago when the Impreza actually had 3 options for a blink. Until Subaru can get their act together, I don't think they'll complicate their inventory complexity too much more.
Well, you're hearing it from me now. I bought the Civic Sport 2 years ago cause the power on the Crosstrek and Impreza hatch sucked. One ride in the Civic and the torque sold me.

I don't know that people who want power are going to go try a Crosstrek knowing it has 152 hp. They probably won't bother.
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Old 02-12-2019, 01:58 PM   #57
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Well, you're hearing it from me now. I bought the Civic Sport 2 years ago cause the power on the Crosstrek and Impreza hatch sucked. One ride in the Civic and the torque sold me.

I don't know that people who want power are going to go try a Crosstrek knowing it has 152 hp. They probably won't bother.
That's actually most likely the case of why I don't hear it. Those that it would bother simply don't try it knowing. But, what are they getting then? Are they going elsewhere or are they getting a Forester? I certainly don't hear "I really wanted a Crosstrek; but......" from those customers.
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Old 02-12-2019, 03:00 PM   #58
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We are looking for a new car for my wife. She wants something that can do light off roading for camping. I had a WRX back in 02 and remembered the outback being a good choice. Looking at them now they have really changed. I like the older ones, now everything is CVT and 4-cyl.
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Old 02-12-2019, 03:28 PM   #59
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Get a 4 runner.. be done with it.
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Old 02-12-2019, 04:12 PM   #60
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We are looking for a new car for my wife. She wants something that can do light off roading for camping. I had a WRX back in 02 and remembered the outback being a good choice. Looking at them now they have really changed. I like the older ones, now everything is CVT and 4-cyl.
Toyota 4-runner, Ford explorer, Honda pilot; you know what, I'm not going to go through the entire list of available CUVs & SUVs that would foot the bill - pick a manufacturer, go to their website, and pick a mid-sized CUV. Most have at least an NA V6 & AWD available, if not better (explorer = 3.5L ecoboost).

Brand loyalty is moronic.

and the 2002-era LEGACY outback is roughly the same size as the current XV crosstrek; obviously the XV has less cargo room (hatch vs. wagon) but the wheelbase is pretty similar, since the impreza gets a bit bigger each generation, and is about the same size as that era legacy.

TLDR:
1. use the internet
2. look at brands outside Subaru
3. ????
4. PROFIT!!!!
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Old 02-12-2019, 04:16 PM   #61
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Who wants to put dirty camping equipment inside their car, buy a truck like a normal clean person.
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Old 02-12-2019, 06:12 PM   #62
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That's actually most likely the case of why I don't hear it. Those that it would bother simply don't try it knowing. But, what are they getting then? Are they going elsewhere or are they getting a Forester? I certainly don't hear "I really wanted a Crosstrek; but......" from those customers.
Crosstrek is too slow so they get a Forester? Yeah, you’re not gonna see that either. I know Subaru thinks they’re doing so well they can neglect certain loyal customers, and replace them with more numerous trend followers, but it may bite them in the ass eventually.
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Old 02-12-2019, 06:47 PM   #63
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Crosstrek is too slow so they get a Forester? Yeah, you're not gonna see that either. I know Subaru thinks they're doing so well they can neglect certain loyal customers, and replace them with more numerous trend followers, but it may bite them in the ass eventually.
Subaru is always neglecting "loyal" customers. I don't get a Baja. Or a Justy. Now, it's wagons and sporty versions of some models. The only complaint I take even remotely seriously is the sedan/hatch WRX/STI. Everything else I blame these "loyal" customers for not continuing to get these models that are dying off. Hence why they die off. "Subaru doesn't listen to their customers"..........I say they do and the proof is in the pudding. Go look at their sales alllllllll the way up to 2008. Pretty standard ups and downs. Some nice ups. Some crappy downs. THEN, they listened to customers saying their cars were too small. Bad MPG. What did they do? Designed cars for those complaints. What has happened since? 20th largest manufacturer in the states to the 7th. Be pissy all you want(I am in there as well); but, "loyal" customers were listened to. Proof being that Subaru is also still tops in "Loyal Customer Retention". It is what it is.



Heck. I don't pay attention to other makes to complain why certain models are not available; but, why can't I get a Sedan Focus RS? Hell. Give it a couple years and why can't I get a FOCUS!?!?!? I am positive Subaru isn't alone in "screwing" loyal customers.
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Old 02-18-2019, 11:01 PM   #64
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Now, I think it is worth a try; but, it's very rare I hear any talk about the power of the Crosstrek. If someone opts for something else, it is always size that is the reason. Not the power. .
I bought a WRX when I needed a crosstrek because the crosstrek is slower than dog**** when trying merge onto a highway or go up a hill. i scrape the bottom of my wrx often trying to figure out at what angle to approach a new driveway where I live.

if the crosstrek had 180-200hp i'd have bought it. my manual outback sport was an engaging and fun little car. they neutered the impreza with the cvt and this slow, chatty engine.
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Old 02-19-2019, 01:47 AM   #65
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I drove my Crosstrek 14k miles from Alaska to the east coast to southern California and up to Alaska. Highways were no problem, but high elevation was. Loaded with 4 full grown men and packed in the back with zero visibility. And it's not like I drive slow. Power is best described as "adequate".

I think a turbo Crosstrek would just enable more people to think they're good drivers, which has been the case with most turbo/performance cars as they become more prevalent. The power compensates for the inability to use foresight, planning and defensive/offensive driving skills.

The Outback is meant to be the frequent hauler of people and supplies, so it makes sense to have a more powerful version. Even the Forester. The Crosstrek is a lifted commuter vehicle, easier on gas.
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Old 02-19-2019, 03:59 AM   #66
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I drove my Crosstrek 14k miles from Alaska to the east coast to southern California and up to Alaska. Highways were no problem, but high elevation was. Loaded with 4 full grown men and packed in the back with zero visibility. And it's not like I drive slow. Power is best described as "adequate".

I think a turbo Crosstrek would just enable more people to think they're good drivers, which has been the case with most turbo/performance cars as they become more prevalent. The power compensates for the inability to use foresight, planning and defensive/offensive driving skills.

The Outback is meant to be the frequent hauler of people and supplies, so it makes sense to have a more powerful version. Even the Forester. The Crosstrek is a lifted commuter vehicle, easier on gas.
its 2019, there is zero reason to have to plan on how to make it up a hill. Thats not driver skill, its a legitimate safety hazard. What advantage is there to these junk fb engines? Its certainly not mileage. My old 2015 legacy 2.5 and my wifes old 2016 crosstrek got low to mid 20’s in mixed but mostly highway driving. My 2016 wrx that replaced the legacy got better mileage than either one of those heaps. The crosstrek should come with the fb25 at minimum.
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Old 02-19-2019, 04:09 AM   #67
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its 2019, there is zero reason to have to plan on how to make it up a hill. Thats not driver skill, its a legitimate safety hazard. What advantage is there to these junk fb engines? Its certainly not mileage. My old 2015 legacy 2.5 and my wifes old 2016 crosstrek got low to mid 20’s in mixed but mostly highway driving. My 2016 wrx that replaced the legacy got better mileage than either one of those heaps. The crosstrek should come with the fb25 at minimum.
Ridiculous post is ridiculous and does not reflect reality. Noted.
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Old 02-19-2019, 10:05 AM   #68
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. The power compensates for the inability to use foresight, planning and defensive/offensive driving skills.
That's just a stupid or ignorant statement.
Skill is always involved in driving period. Many people don't want to cough up 25k and deal with some slow accelerating POS. They want merging power to accelerate from a dead stop onto a 55 mph service road. Or they need power for elevation due to where they live. Things in the real world, not the internet, and bs interstate statements, are vastly different.
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Old 02-19-2019, 10:21 AM   #69
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its 2019, there is zero reason to have to plan on how to make it up a hill. Thats not driver skill, its a legitimate safety hazard. What advantage is there to these junk fb engines? Its certainly not mileage. My old 2015 legacy 2.5 and my wifes old 2016 crosstrek got low to mid 20’s in mixed but mostly highway driving. My 2016 wrx that replaced the legacy got better mileage than either one of those heaps. The crosstrek should come with the fb25 at minimum.
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Ridiculous post is ridiculous and does not reflect reality. Noted.
While these seem to be opposing perspectives, they’re not. They’re data points on the same distribution curve.

I’ve always "made it” too... no matter what I was driving. But the most freightening and dangerous driving events were in vehicles with power inadequate to enable defensive evasion. Not many times. But. When you have one of those you’ll Never want another. From then on you choose engines with MORE THAN adequate power... for most driving, but ENOUGH for the worst times.

Sometimes in the course of a long driving history harm will be in the way... personally, I want all options to avoid that harm. I’ve learned the hard way that horsepower is an important option to have.

The Crosstrek does not have “adequate “ horsepower for my driving.

A long time ago I determined that my minimum hp/wt ratio was 15. My ‘17 FXTT’s is 14.8... adequate. My fun cars have been half that or less. No current Subaru meets MY needs. Sadly.
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Old 02-19-2019, 10:28 AM   #70
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I bought a WRX when I needed a crosstrek because the crosstrek is slower than dog**** when trying merge onto a highway or go up a hill. i scrape the bottom of my wrx often trying to figure out at what angle to approach a new driveway where I live.

if the crosstrek had 180-200hp i'd have bought it. my manual outback sport was an engaging and fun little car. they neutered the impreza with the cvt and this slow, chatty engine.
And, again, I never said it was for everyone. People typically research what they want before coming in to buy. Sales numbers prove it's a great car for what it is. More and more and more sold each year. I'd wager EVERY car available have people wishing it had more power and even some going somewhere else to get that power and even having to sacrifice something to get it.

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Originally Posted by n2oiroc View Post
its 2019, there is zero reason to have to plan on how to make it up a hill. Thats not driver skill, its a legitimate safety hazard. What advantage is there to these junk fb engines? Its certainly not mileage. My old 2015 legacy 2.5 and my wifes old 2016 crosstrek got low to mid 20's in mixed but mostly highway driving. My 2016 wrx that replaced the legacy got better mileage than either one of those heaps. The crosstrek should come with the fb25 at minimum.
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That's just a stupid or ignorant statement.
Skill is always involved in driving period. Many people don't want to cough up 25k and deal with some slow accelerating POS. They want merging power to accelerate from a dead stop onto a 55 mph service road. Or they need power for elevation due to where they live. Things in the real world, not the internet, and bs interstate statements, are vastly different.
OMG. Not the safety crap again. I don't know how old you are Pre; but, as long as I have been alive, I have never seen a highway speed limit less than 55 and all those low hp(ESPECIALLY Subaru) cars of the 80s always seemed to manage. Heck, they seem to manage now. And, again, in 21 years as a first responder, I have not yet even heard of an accident where someone said "I just couldn't get up to speed fast enough".
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Old 02-19-2019, 10:32 AM   #71
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...The Crosstrek does not have “adequate “ horsepower for my driving....
Very key part of your statement..........
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Old 02-19-2019, 10:42 AM   #72
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And, again, I never said it was for everyone. People typically research what they want before coming in to buy. Sales numbers prove it's a great car for what it is. More and more and more sold each year. I'd wager EVERY car available have people wishing it had more power and even some going somewhere else to get that power and even having to sacrifice something to get it.





OMG. Not the safety crap again. I don't know how old you are Pre; but, as long as I have been alive, I have never seen a highway speed limit less than 55 and all those low hp(ESPECIALLY Subaru) cars of the 80s always seemed to manage. Heck, they seem to manage now. And, again, in 21 years as a first responder, I have not yet even heard of an accident where someone said "I just couldn't get up to speed fast enough".
I’d bet you have little experience as a bike rider. If you did you would have a better understanding of what defensive driving is, and the part road space plays.

Being able to command that road space takes horsepower.

You drive your way, I’ll drive mine.
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Old 02-19-2019, 11:18 AM   #73
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OMG. Not the safety crap again. I don't know how old you are Pre; but, as long as I have been alive, I have never seen a highway speed limit less than 55 and all those low hp(ESPECIALLY Subaru) cars of the 80s always seemed to manage. Heck, they seem to manage now. And, again, in 21 years as a first responder, I have not yet even heard of an accident where someone said "I just couldn't get up to speed fast enough".
Yeah, it is actually the wannabe boy racers that are the danger. Performance cars and bad drivers go hand in hand. Just ask any insurance company.
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Old 02-19-2019, 11:22 AM   #74
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OMG. Not the safety crap again. I don't know how old you are Pre; but, as long as I have been alive, I have never seen a highway speed limit less than 55 and all those low hp(ESPECIALLY Subaru) cars of the 80s always seemed to manage. Heck, they seem to manage now. And, again, in 21 years as a first responder, I have not yet even heard of an accident where someone said "I just couldn't get up to speed fast enough".
Older than you, and wiser.

Do you have any experience living where I live? No you don't. You don't have a g damn clue. I live next to a major highway (70 mph), and next to a major tollway (70 mph). Service roads to either, has me accelerating from a dead stop to 55 mph, then to 70 mph. Even when I'm in my more powerful car, it's often quite difficult to merge in and get moving. Basically look for a break in all the traffic, and it's high, and punch it.

And as See, said above, you've got no experience riding a motorcycle, which pays huge dividends in driving an automobile. SIPDE is preached like the gospel. Having some spare power to merge, swerve, etc, is a safety thing whether you want to acknowledge it or not. Your defensive attitude of Subaru often ignores reality. I can't even count how many times having some power in my cars or in my bikes have saved my bacon. Regularly I need power to accelerate around someone to exit, or get away from their phone surfing dumb A's. You don't drive here, and know nothing about it. I live in a major city, and it doesn't suffer fools or anemic power.
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Old 02-19-2019, 11:30 AM   #75
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Pre major city life sucks balls, so I am sorry for your condition, but in most cases every single situation you mention can be avoided with defensive driving. IN stead of accelerating around somebody, get behind them to exit. Or know your exit and be where you need to be ahead of time. Not saying defensive driving is the cure all, but it does work most of the time. Having more power is not a cure all either, but it also does work some of the time.

It is not a zero sum game of you are right and Justy is wrong kind of thing. As is the case with most arguments, both sides can claim a portion of the truth.

I drove a 83 HP Toyota Tercell 4wd (0-60 in like 16 seconds) throughout college. It made several 1100 miles road trips with the family loaded to the gills with 4 of us luggage and a dog and it was just fine at freeway speeds. You just had to know where you were going and plan ahead.

All of the subarus sold today are plenty fast enough for the continental United States. They may be boring, but they are not unsafe.
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