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05-05-2021, 11:03 AM | #701 |
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05-05-2021, 11:30 AM | #702 | |
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2022 Subaru BRZ News and Rumors
Quote:
“It isn’t rocket science” is a well known lexicon. Wasn’t meant to be a clever jab or anything. You didn’t say that they “probably cared more about crash testing than they did functionality”. You said “crash testing first and foremost. Any performance benefit a distant second.” We don’t know what their priorities were because we weren’t there and we didn’t design or validate them. Stop speaking in absolutes if you don’t want people to take it that way. I never said it was required to get on track or anything like that. I said it is definitely in the realm of possibility that it could help lower lap times. Most cars don’t need anything... heck, most don’t need over 140hp. But if there is a market for an aero kit that works on track to knock a couple tenths off, I’m not going to fault Subaru for developing it. Capitalism, right? |
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05-05-2021, 11:33 AM | #703 |
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4 wheels, instead of 2, putting down power with the assistance of LSD's or PTU/RDU detecting wheel slip, with proper tires, in traction limited events, who'd a thunk it? WRC has called and they are not looking for engineers here!
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05-05-2021, 12:41 PM | #704 |
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WRC hydroplaning and street hydroplaning are not equal. Just as driving 100 mph on the highway or track isn't the same as driving 100 mph over a crest and catching 15 feet of air and the need for aerodynamics and increased stabilization. lol
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05-05-2021, 04:24 PM | #705 | |
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Really? I had no idea One wheel with power = 4 wheels with power on the highway I guess here. |
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05-05-2021, 06:15 PM | #706 | |
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Vehicle:2002 WRX Wagon |
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05-05-2021, 07:06 PM | #707 |
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The increase width of the body panel around the tail light on the 2011 STI sedan lowered the drag and increased stability. Apparently. But Tommi also said his pre pro R205 had a smooth bottom, a lowered lip with gurney flap, and full roll cage. Because without those things along with the ridiculous wing, the 7:55 car was unstable and scary.
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05-05-2021, 07:56 PM | #708 |
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Vehicle:2002 WRX Wagon |
Subaru Canada quotes same drag coefficient for the wrx and wrx sti for 2011 (0.34). Looks like the wing isn't a drag penalty at the speed they test at.
Last edited by King Ding187; 05-05-2021 at 10:36 PM. |
05-05-2021, 09:38 PM | #709 | |
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Quote:
1) The case studied is for a vehicle at 65mph, not 165mph. The boundary layer for laminar flow will of course change with speed. So it may very well be that the spoiler/wing (as they refer to it) is within the boundary layer at 65mph. 2) The author themselves state that "It is a known fact that every time spoiler generates down force it tends to generate drag." 3) The author uses the Bugatti Veyron as an example, where they state the Bugatti extends it's wing above 140mph. But then they neglect to mention that the wing is retracted for its top speed run. The other thing which is worth mentioning is that this is someone's thesis. It is not a published peer reviewed study. It is entirely possible the author made a mistake, and it wan't caught. After all, this was an ANSYS exercise... not a wind tunnel test. I can say with a great deal of confidence with my own use of ANSYS (much earlier in my career), that if your setup is wrong, or your input assumptions are wrong, then the results can vary wildly from reality. I'm getting ahead of myself there though, as I still need to read it in full. As for your comment on the 2011 WRX and STi sedans... I'm fairly certain there were other changes to the STI over the WRX than just the addition of the wing. For one thing, I believe the STI was lower to the ground... which already reduces drag on its own. Please keep in mind that my response was to the statement about the wing increasing the STis's top speed. It was not a statement regarding highway speeds. Brandon |
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05-05-2021, 10:18 PM | #710 |
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AWD can/will hydroplane. AWD doesn't stop it. Tires will have the most immediate affect to that. AWD can/will, obviously, have quicker recovery from the hydroplaning.
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05-05-2021, 11:06 PM | #711 | |
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Vehicle:2002 WRX Wagon |
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05-06-2021, 08:19 AM | #712 |
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I don't feel like quoting JP, but in response to AWD hydroplaning: I just got back from driving on the road for 20 hours, from Massachusetts to Ohio. I went through the mountains in Pennsylvania on the way down, which always seems to be pouring rain and frigid when I go through. Anyway, I hydroplaned quite a number of times and was reminded of how much I preferred hydroplaning in my AWD Subaru as opposed to my BRZ. HOWEVER... I've purposely induced hydroplaning in my BRZ, and it handled it very well. Psychopath that I am, I at least have experience in things here and there, even at some cost to my own life, all in the name of SCIENCE! Would a large wing have helped? Probably. Especially when hydroplaning at 80 mph. I'll letcha know when I give that a try.
Also, I think we're neglecting the fact that the wing is optional. I'd rather STI make a wing for those that could actually use it after modifying their BRZ. And people who don't want it can just swap trunks (if it comes standard on the tS). I do enjoy these discussions. I'm learning a lot to forget! Last edited by chanomatik; 05-06-2021 at 08:26 AM. |
05-06-2021, 08:26 AM | #713 | |
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I'm glad I'm not the only one who induces hydro-planing to find out what the max speed my car can handle...in the name of science of course
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05-06-2021, 09:13 AM | #714 | |
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I could be wrong, but I would be shocked. Last edited by SCRAPPYDO; 05-06-2021 at 09:20 AM. |
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05-06-2021, 09:17 AM | #715 | |
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Okay, I will concede I could have worded it differently as I am a huge proponent of NOT using absolutes. I will take my lumps if you decided to take my words literally and accept at least half the blame for the whole mess. |
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05-06-2021, 09:37 AM | #716 | |
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Wait, are you saying you think they just pick a wing and slap it on and don't do wind tunnel testing? |
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05-06-2021, 09:51 AM | #717 |
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05-06-2021, 09:53 AM | #718 |
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No I am saying that Subaru will do the minimum to get by. Just like most companies selling passenger cars. No matter what anybody thinks the BRZ is not a race car. It is a street car with styling bits attached. And while the physics of the wing are what they are. I would wager it is marginally better than what you can buy off Ebay for normal street driving.
Examples of functional wings that do some good: The one in the video showing the BRZ sliding around its back end effortlessly (WITH THE super useful wing) seems to prove that that the cars wing is more of a decoration than useful piece of kit. |
05-06-2021, 09:53 AM | #719 |
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double post.. ooopsy
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05-06-2021, 09:57 AM | #720 | |
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What have they done recently? They raced themselves at the Isle of Man. wow, publicity stunt. They dropped out of WRC the rules changed and they could not adapt, but that was before they were rendered obsolete due to Loeb. they are in X games, which absolutely nobody cares about. They still compete in the 24 hours of Nürburgring I think, which is cool as any 24 hour race is respectable. But hardly pulling huge amounts of fans in. Rally was Subaru's bread and butter. Without it, they are just the outback company. I like the outbacks. But Subaru Performance cars have been dull and increasingly ugly for the past 8 years. |
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05-06-2021, 10:13 AM | #721 |
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Loeb was unstoppable.
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05-06-2021, 11:41 AM | #722 | |
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Quote:
Maybe what I object to is your coloring everything from the racing crayon box. Yes, they've changed. But denigrating their current products out of perspective makes your comments less effective, overall. Too broad a brush that masks a lot of good in today's products. |
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05-06-2021, 12:06 PM | #723 | |
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05-06-2021, 12:51 PM | #724 |
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Now will an automatic version get a tS version with all the goosenecks and stability? Or is downforce and handling only relevant to clutch pedals? I think it looks pretty good.
I do prefer the look of the current car though: |
05-06-2021, 03:55 PM | #725 | |
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Racing fuels innovation as much as Astronauts going into space. Sportbikes are developed in MotoGP and WorldSBK, cars it's F1. Technologies they innovate to go fast end up in performance cars and vanilla cars both. Racing has huge benefits especially in drivetrains, and in this case all wheel drivetrains. While I don't agree with that guy much, I do here. He has a point. It's why manus spend millions per year racing, R&D. GKN, Haldex, many AWD mfr's are innovating and doing new stuff with their drivetrains. Subaru is all about the 1990's or something. My got damn truck has a more advanced all wheel drive system than anything Subaru makes. Subaru, which WAS considered in the leader in all wheel drive cars, doesn't offer a single model with real torque vectoring on any of the shafts. That's sad, and pathetic. Engines, do we even have to discuss theirs? Nah. Nothing to see here. The one thing they do excel in is chassis design in terms of safety, certainly not performance. It's not hating to discuss facts. I hope they come out with a truly innovative AWD system for the new STi. I'm waiting for one of these manus to stick the Twinster on the front and rear half shafts both so all 4 corners use mechanical torque vectoring instead of relying only on the rear half shafts to do it. Ford and VW have both released products where it's real torque vectoring in the rear, brake based on the front. Someone has to have the balls to do it right. And I hope that is Subaru. |
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