Welcome to the North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club Friday March 29, 2024
Home Forums Images WikiNASIOC Products Store Modifications Upgrade Garage
NASIOC
Go Back   NASIOC > NASIOC General > News & Rumors

Welcome to NASIOC - The world's largest online community for Subaru enthusiasts!
Welcome to the NASIOC.com Subaru forum.

You are currently viewing our forum as a guest, which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our community, free of charge, you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is free, fast and simple, so please join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact us.







* As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases. 
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads. 
Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-05-2021, 11:03 AM   #701
SeeeeeYa
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 129681
Join Date: Oct 2006
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Vehicle:
2024 Crosstrek Ltd
Ice Silver Metallic

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Chestnut View Post
Now you know how everyone on here feels about you.
Notice closely how that bothers me.
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
SeeeeeYa is offline  
Sponsored Links
* Registered users of the site do not see these ads.
Old 05-05-2021, 11:30 AM   #702
quentinberg007
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 7887
Join Date: Jun 2001
Vehicle:
2023 Tangerine
2023 3 Cylinder

Default 2022 Subaru BRZ News and Rumors

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
Oh look you brought rocket science into it. That is a funny joke because you know I am one. So clever you thought of that all by yourself.

I suppose I gave you too much credit to connect all the dots. I said they probably cared more about crash testing than they did about ultimate functionality. A wing that big on a 200HP street driven car is laughable and unneeded. Do you really think they optimized the chassis for the wing. Do you really think they compromised all the NVH for a wing. Do you honestly think a car that is set up for daily commuting will have a chassis stiff enough for that pep boys bolt on looking wing to make a hill of beans difference.

It is fashion and eye candy only. The regular BRZ looks perfectly fine without it. Cars with 2x as much HP do not have or need a wing and they perform quite well. The new Supra does not have one does not seem to be slowing it down. Why even get into all the aero loads and forces when it is not needed. It is like arguing about what color you want your Ferrari when you work at McDonalds.

“It isn’t rocket science” is a well known lexicon. Wasn’t meant to be a clever jab or anything.

You didn’t say that they “probably cared more about crash testing than they did functionality”. You said “crash testing first and foremost. Any performance benefit a distant second.” We don’t know what their priorities were because we weren’t there and we didn’t design or validate them. Stop speaking in absolutes if you don’t want people to take it that way. I never said it was required to get on track or anything like that. I said it is definitely in the realm of possibility that it could help lower lap times. Most cars don’t need anything... heck, most don’t need over 140hp. But if there is a market for an aero kit that works on track to knock a couple tenths off, I’m not going to fault Subaru for developing it. Capitalism, right?
quentinberg007 is offline  
Old 05-05-2021, 11:33 AM   #703
Pre
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 139693
Join Date: Feb 2007
Vehicle:
Dura ngo 95
horrorshow

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Chestnut View Post
Are you the guy who thinks AWD helps hydroplaning?
4 wheels, instead of 2, putting down power with the assistance of LSD's or PTU/RDU detecting wheel slip, with proper tires, in traction limited events, who'd a thunk it? WRC has called and they are not looking for engineers here!
Pre is offline  
Old 05-05-2021, 12:41 PM   #704
4S-TURBO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 67807
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Default

WRC hydroplaning and street hydroplaning are not equal. Just as driving 100 mph on the highway or track isn't the same as driving 100 mph over a crest and catching 15 feet of air and the need for aerodynamics and increased stabilization. lol
4S-TURBO is offline  
Old 05-05-2021, 04:24 PM   #705
Pre
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 139693
Join Date: Feb 2007
Vehicle:
Dura ngo 95
horrorshow

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
WRC hydroplaning and street hydroplaning are not equal. Just as driving 100 mph on the highway or track isn't the same as driving 100 mph over a crest and catching 15 feet of air and the need for aerodynamics and increased stabilization. lol

Really? I had no idea


One wheel with power = 4 wheels with power on the highway I guess here.
Pre is offline  
Old 05-05-2021, 06:15 PM   #706
King Ding187
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 2598
Join Date: Oct 2000
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Wilmington, DE
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Wagon

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brandon View Post
If Subaru did make that statement (and I'm not saying they didn't), then they were either misquoted or the proof reader was asleep at the switch. The statement is likely backwards and should have read that the wing slows it down by 4mph.

Of course "other aero aids" can reduce drag. But I 100% guarantee you that the wing itself on the back of that Merc slowed it down at the top end. To be able to reduce drag, the aero aids must work within the outer boundary layer of the laminar flow around a moving body. Dimples on a golf ball are a great example of this. Disrupting and redirecting laminar flow are what can reduce drag.

Please do not use the terms "spoiler" and "wing" interchangeably. They are very different things. Spoilers work within the laminar flow to SPOIL it... thereby reducing low pressure zones which create lift and drag. Wings work outside the laminar flow, which is why they sit so high above the trunk/boot line. Putting a wing within the laminar flow boundary at the rear of a car would be counterproductive, as the lower pressure area would make the wing substantially less effective. In fact, the air within the laminar flow boundary is relatively stagnant... which is why your windshield wipers actually work.

Working outside the laminar flow allows the wing to actually work as a wing. With a plane the angle of attack creates lift, on the back of a car the angle of attack is set to create downforce. But whether lift or downforce, the drag is a portion of what makes those forces possible. If there was zero drag, then lift or downforce COULD NOT OCCUR.

The long and short of it is that if the STi wing provides any downforce at all, then almost by definition it would need to induce drag. Any object in an airstream (whether a wing or something else) creates drag... at least in this universe. For the STi to be faster with the wing, then the wing would need to be generating propulsion to overcome its own drag. As I don't see any miniature gas turbines on the STi wing, I deem the suggestion that it adds to the top speed utterly ridiculous.

And I wholeheartedly agree with JP on this. Anyone who can come up with a dragless wing should win the Nobel Prize for physics. Anyone who can come up with a wing that provides its own inherent propulsion should win that prize, be the wealthiest person in the universe, and be able to sleep with whomever they want, any time the want... no questions asked. (that last part is a joke... no one should be able to do that)


Brandon
The 190 EvoII both reduced drag and increased downforce over its predecessor. One can't look at a car and make a claim as to what one component does in the system. If you care to further your understanding take a look at this study. https://scholarcommons.scu.edu/cgi/v...text=mech_mstr . A vehicle is not the sum of it's aerodynamic components individually. It's not uncommon for Vehicles with wing or spoiler assemblies to reduce drag. It's up to the designers to properly design the devices to enable this. In fact, the first BRZ model produced less drag with it's "wing" than without it (.28 cd vs. .29 with a naked trunk). Do I believe the STI wing was designed to do this, no. But if someone provides the numbers we will know.
King Ding187 is offline  
Old 05-05-2021, 07:06 PM   #707
4S-TURBO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 67807
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Default

The increase width of the body panel around the tail light on the 2011 STI sedan lowered the drag and increased stability. Apparently. But Tommi also said his pre pro R205 had a smooth bottom, a lowered lip with gurney flap, and full roll cage. Because without those things along with the ridiculous wing, the 7:55 car was unstable and scary.
4S-TURBO is offline  
Old 05-05-2021, 07:56 PM   #708
King Ding187
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 2598
Join Date: Oct 2000
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Wilmington, DE
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Wagon

Default

Subaru Canada quotes same drag coefficient for the wrx and wrx sti for 2011 (0.34). Looks like the wing isn't a drag penalty at the speed they test at.

Last edited by King Ding187; 05-05-2021 at 10:36 PM.
King Ding187 is offline  
Old 05-05-2021, 09:38 PM   #709
brandon
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 1183
Join Date: Mar 2000
Vehicle:
18 Altrak, 76 Mini
64 Lotus Elan, 70 Elan +2

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by King Ding187 View Post
The 190 EvoII both reduced drag and increased downforce over its predecessor. One can't look at a car and make a claim as to what one component does in the system. If you care to further your understanding take a look at this study. https://scholarcommons.scu.edu/cgi/v...text=mech_mstr . A vehicle is not the sum of it's aerodynamic components individually. It's not uncommon for Vehicles with wing or spoiler assemblies to reduce drag. It's up to the designers to properly design the devices to enable this. In fact, the first BRZ model produced less drag with it's "wing" than without it (.28 cd vs. .29 with a naked trunk). Do I believe the STI wing was designed to do this, no. But if someone provides the numbers we will know.
I will read this person's thesis and get back to this. I may very well learn something. However, at first glance I noticed 3 things:

1) The case studied is for a vehicle at 65mph, not 165mph. The boundary layer for laminar flow will of course change with speed. So it may very well be that the spoiler/wing (as they refer to it) is within the boundary layer at 65mph.

2) The author themselves state that "It is a known fact that every time spoiler generates down force it tends to generate drag."

3) The author uses the Bugatti Veyron as an example, where they state the Bugatti extends it's wing above 140mph. But then they neglect to mention that the wing is retracted for its top speed run.


The other thing which is worth mentioning is that this is someone's thesis. It is not a published peer reviewed study. It is entirely possible the author made a mistake, and it wan't caught. After all, this was an ANSYS exercise... not a wind tunnel test. I can say with a great deal of confidence with my own use of ANSYS (much earlier in my career), that if your setup is wrong, or your input assumptions are wrong, then the results can vary wildly from reality. I'm getting ahead of myself there though, as I still need to read it in full.


As for your comment on the 2011 WRX and STi sedans... I'm fairly certain there were other changes to the STI over the WRX than just the addition of the wing. For one thing, I believe the STI was lower to the ground... which already reduces drag on its own.

Please keep in mind that my response was to the statement about the wing increasing the STis's top speed. It was not a statement regarding highway speeds.

Brandon
brandon is offline  
Old 05-05-2021, 10:18 PM   #710
JustyWRC
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 153088
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Arlington, TN
Vehicle:
2005 Baja Turbo
95&96 Sambar 06 Forester

Default

AWD can/will hydroplane. AWD doesn't stop it. Tires will have the most immediate affect to that. AWD can/will, obviously, have quicker recovery from the hydroplaning.
JustyWRC is offline  
Old 05-05-2021, 11:06 PM   #711
King Ding187
Scooby Newbie
 
Member#: 2598
Join Date: Oct 2000
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Location: Wilmington, DE
Vehicle:
2002 WRX Wagon

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by brandon View Post
I will read this person's thesis and get back to this. I may very well learn something. However, at first glance I noticed 3 things:

1) The case studied is for a vehicle at 65mph, not 165mph. The boundary layer for laminar flow will of course change with speed. So it may very well be that the spoiler/wing (as they refer to it) is within the boundary layer at 65mph.

2) The author themselves state that "It is a known fact that every time spoiler generates down force it tends to generate drag."

3) The author uses the Bugatti Veyron as an example, where they state the Bugatti extends it's wing above 140mph. But then they neglect to mention that the wing is retracted for its top speed run.


The other thing which is worth mentioning is that this is someone's thesis. It is not a published peer reviewed study. It is entirely possible the author made a mistake, and it wan't caught. After all, this was an ANSYS exercise... not a wind tunnel test. I can say with a great deal of confidence with my own use of ANSYS (much earlier in my career), that if your setup is wrong, or your input assumptions are wrong, then the results can vary wildly from reality. I'm getting ahead of myself there though, as I still need to read it in full.


As for your comment on the 2011 WRX and STi sedans... I'm fairly certain there were other changes to the STI over the WRX than just the addition of the wing. For one thing, I believe the STI was lower to the ground... which already reduces drag on its own.

Please keep in mind that my response was to the statement about the wing increasing the STis's top speed. It was not a statement regarding highway speeds.

Brandon
I linked the study because it has good visuals on how a wing can be used to reduce drag. The story of the 190 EVOii was a real world example(that I thought big wing Subaru fans would appreciate). Neither of us have real data on the STI wingless vs. with wing, so I'll stop beating the dead horse. If you're into aero, check out http://mulsannescorner.com/ . Not exactly econoboxes with benches on the trunk lid, but much more interesting to read and think about with lots of great history on cars that actually were trying to push aero limits.
King Ding187 is offline  
Old 05-06-2021, 08:19 AM   #712
chanomatik
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 159474
Join Date: Sep 2007
Chapter/Region: NESIC
Location: Northbridge, MA
Vehicle:
2017 Impreza Sport
Lithium Red - OLDKID

Default

I don't feel like quoting JP, but in response to AWD hydroplaning: I just got back from driving on the road for 20 hours, from Massachusetts to Ohio. I went through the mountains in Pennsylvania on the way down, which always seems to be pouring rain and frigid when I go through. Anyway, I hydroplaned quite a number of times and was reminded of how much I preferred hydroplaning in my AWD Subaru as opposed to my BRZ. HOWEVER... I've purposely induced hydroplaning in my BRZ, and it handled it very well. Psychopath that I am, I at least have experience in things here and there, even at some cost to my own life, all in the name of SCIENCE! Would a large wing have helped? Probably. Especially when hydroplaning at 80 mph. I'll letcha know when I give that a try.

Also, I think we're neglecting the fact that the wing is optional. I'd rather STI make a wing for those that could actually use it after modifying their BRZ. And people who don't want it can just swap trunks (if it comes standard on the tS).

I do enjoy these discussions. I'm learning a lot to forget!

Last edited by chanomatik; 05-06-2021 at 08:26 AM.
chanomatik is offline  
Old 05-06-2021, 08:26 AM   #713
murrdogg24
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 50586
Join Date: Dec 2003
Chapter/Region: BAIC
Location: Chiraq
Vehicle:
64 Impala

Default

I'm glad I'm not the only one who induces hydro-planing to find out what the max speed my car can handle...in the name of science of course
Quote:
Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
I don't feel like quoting JP, but in response to AWD hydroplaning: I just got back from driving on the road for 20 hours, from Massachusetts to Ohio. I went through the mountains in Pennsylvania on the way down, which always seems to be pouring rain and frigid when I go through. Anyway, I hydroplaned quite a number of times and was reminded of how much I preferred hydroplaning in my AWD Subaru as opposed to my BRZ. HOWEVER... I've purposely induced hydroplaning in my BRZ, and it handled it very well. Psychopath that I am, I at least have experience in things here and there, even at some cost to my own life, all in the name of SCIENCE! Would a large wing have helped? Probably. Especially when hydroplaning at 80 mph. I'll letcha know when I give that a try.

Also, I think we're neglecting the fact that the wing is optional. I'd rather STI make a wing for those that could actually use it after modifying their BRZ. And people who don't want it can just swap trunks (if it comes standard on the tS).
murrdogg24 is offline  
Old 05-06-2021, 09:13 AM   #714
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: www.testdrivemylife.com
Vehicle:
2020 JEEP / RAM
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by King Ding187 View Post
Subaru Canada quotes same drag coefficient for the wrx and wrx sti for 2011 (0.34). Looks like the wing isn't a drag penalty at the speed they test at.
or, more likely they just use the Cd for the base model and not every optional package therefore. Which do you think is more likely given the cost of wind tunnel testing and or CFD combined with penny pinching accountants and meeting the minimum of regulations...

I could be wrong, but I would be shocked.

Last edited by SCRAPPYDO; 05-06-2021 at 09:20 AM.
SCRAPPYDO is offline  
Old 05-06-2021, 09:17 AM   #715
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: www.testdrivemylife.com
Vehicle:
2020 JEEP / RAM
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by quentinberg007 View Post
“It isn’t rocket science” is a well known lexicon. Wasn’t meant to be a clever jab or anything.

You didn’t say that they “probably cared more about crash testing than they did functionality”. You said “crash testing first and foremost. Any performance benefit a distant second.” We don’t know what their priorities were because we weren’t there and we didn’t design or validate them. Stop speaking in absolutes if you don’t want people to take it that way. I never said it was required to get on track or anything like that. I said it is definitely in the realm of possibility that it could help lower lap times. Most cars don’t need anything... heck, most don’t need over 140hp. But if there is a market for an aero kit that works on track to knock a couple tenths off, I’m not going to fault Subaru for developing it. Capitalism, right?

Okay, I will concede I could have worded it differently as I am a huge proponent of NOT using absolutes. I will take my lumps if you decided to take my words literally and accept at least half the blame for the whole mess.
SCRAPPYDO is offline  
Old 05-06-2021, 09:37 AM   #716
JustyWRC
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 153088
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Arlington, TN
Vehicle:
2005 Baja Turbo
95&96 Sambar 06 Forester

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
or, more likely they just use the Cd for the base model and not every optional package therefore. Which do you think is more likely given the cost of wind tunnel testing and or CFD combined with penny pinching accountants and meeting the minimum of regulations...

I could be wrong, but I would be shocked.



Wait, are you saying you think they just pick a wing and slap it on and don't do wind tunnel testing?
JustyWRC is offline  
Old 05-06-2021, 09:51 AM   #717
SeeeeeYa
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 129681
Join Date: Oct 2006
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Vehicle:
2024 Crosstrek Ltd
Ice Silver Metallic

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
Wait, are you saying you think they just pick a wing and slap it on and don't do wind tunnel testing?
His comments mean little as they come from a total lack of respect for Subaru, their products, and their long background in aeronautics.
SeeeeeYa is offline  
Old 05-06-2021, 09:53 AM   #718
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: www.testdrivemylife.com
Vehicle:
2020 JEEP / RAM
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

No I am saying that Subaru will do the minimum to get by. Just like most companies selling passenger cars. No matter what anybody thinks the BRZ is not a race car. It is a street car with styling bits attached. And while the physics of the wing are what they are. I would wager it is marginally better than what you can buy off Ebay for normal street driving.

Examples of functional wings that do some good:







The one in the video showing the BRZ sliding around its back end effortlessly (WITH THE super useful wing) seems to prove that that the cars wing is more of a decoration than useful piece of kit.
SCRAPPYDO is offline  
Old 05-06-2021, 09:53 AM   #719
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: www.testdrivemylife.com
Vehicle:
2020 JEEP / RAM
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

double post.. ooopsy
SCRAPPYDO is offline  
Old 05-06-2021, 09:57 AM   #720
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: www.testdrivemylife.com
Vehicle:
2020 JEEP / RAM
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeeeeYa View Post
His comments mean little as they come from a total lack of respect for Subaru, their products, and their long background in aeronautics.
LOLOL... I have owned 11 Subarus and have an Ascent now. I have no respect for Subaru performance cars any more. They are lazy, predictable, and unimaginative. I have owned 6 Impreza's. Respect has to be earned every day. I am not some simpleton married to a brand for life because they had a few good years back in 1996.

What have they done recently?

They raced themselves at the Isle of Man. wow, publicity stunt.

They dropped out of WRC the rules changed and they could not adapt, but that was before they were rendered obsolete due to Loeb.

they are in X games, which absolutely nobody cares about.

They still compete in the 24 hours of Nürburgring I think, which is cool as any 24 hour race is respectable. But hardly pulling huge amounts of fans in.

Rally was Subaru's bread and butter. Without it, they are just the outback company. I like the outbacks. But Subaru Performance cars have been dull and increasingly ugly for the past 8 years.
SCRAPPYDO is offline  
Old 05-06-2021, 10:13 AM   #721
RealDealTarheel
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 142447
Join Date: Mar 2007
Chapter/Region: AKIC
Location: Not so Fair...banks
Vehicle:
2019 Audi S3

Default

Loeb was unstoppable.
RealDealTarheel is offline  
Old 05-06-2021, 11:41 AM   #722
SeeeeeYa
Scooby Specialist
 
Member#: 129681
Join Date: Oct 2006
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Vehicle:
2024 Crosstrek Ltd
Ice Silver Metallic

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SCRAPPYDO View Post
LOLOL... I have owned 11 Subarus and have an Ascent now. I have no respect for Subaru performance cars any more. They are lazy, predictable, and unimaginative. I have owned 6 Impreza's. Respect has to be earned every day. I am not some simpleton married to a brand for life because they had a few good years back in 1996.

What have they done recently?

They raced themselves at the Isle of Man. wow, publicity stunt.

They dropped out of WRC the rules changed and they could not adapt, but that was before they were rendered obsolete due to Loeb.

they are in X games, which absolutely nobody cares about.

They still compete in the 24 hours of Nürburgring I think, which is cool as any 24 hour race is respectable. But hardly pulling huge amounts of fans in.

Rally was Subaru's bread and butter. Without it, they are just the outback company. I like the outbacks. But Subaru Performance cars have been dull and increasingly ugly for the past 8 years.
I just said what I saw. I didn't say you didn't have reasons for your opinions. I know you do... and I agree that their "performance" cars kinda suck these days. Actually, to me they always were unfinished kit cars. I gave up on those because they went too far with the vanilla and took away most of the kit.

Maybe what I object to is your coloring everything from the racing crayon box. Yes, they've changed. But denigrating their current products out of perspective makes your comments less effective, overall. Too broad a brush that masks a lot of good in today's products.
SeeeeeYa is offline  
Old 05-06-2021, 12:06 PM   #723
SCRAPPYDO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 873
Join Date: Feb 2000
Chapter/Region: TXIC
Location: www.testdrivemylife.com
Vehicle:
2020 JEEP / RAM
Datsun 71 240Z & 68 2000

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeeeeYa View Post
I just said what I saw. I didn't say you didn't have reasons for your opinions. I know you do... and I agree that their "performance" cars kinda suck these days. Actually, to me they always were unfinished kit cars. I gave up on those because they went too far with the vanilla and took away most of the kit.

Maybe what I object to is your coloring everything from the racing crayon box. Yes, they've changed. But denigrating their current products out of perspective makes your comments less effective, overall. Too broad a brush that masks a lot of good in today's products.
well that is a legitimate criticism of me in general. The older I get the more broad those strokes seem to become. That is a character flaw I need to work on a bit probably.
SCRAPPYDO is offline  
Old 05-06-2021, 12:51 PM   #724
4S-TURBO
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 67807
Join Date: Aug 2004
Chapter/Region: MAIC
Default

Now will an automatic version get a tS version with all the goosenecks and stability? Or is downforce and handling only relevant to clutch pedals? I think it looks pretty good.





I do prefer the look of the current car though:

4S-TURBO is offline  
Old 05-06-2021, 03:55 PM   #725
Pre
Scooby Guru
 
Member#: 139693
Join Date: Feb 2007
Vehicle:
Dura ngo 95
horrorshow

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by SeeeeeYa View Post

Maybe what I object to is your coloring everything from the racing crayon box. Yes, they've changed. But denigrating their current products out of perspective makes your comments less effective, overall. Too broad a brush that masks a lot of good in today's products.

Racing fuels innovation as much as Astronauts going into space. Sportbikes are developed in MotoGP and WorldSBK, cars it's F1. Technologies they innovate to go fast end up in performance cars and vanilla cars both. Racing has huge benefits especially in drivetrains, and in this case all wheel drivetrains.



While I don't agree with that guy much, I do here. He has a point. It's why manus spend millions per year racing, R&D. GKN, Haldex, many AWD mfr's are innovating and doing new stuff with their drivetrains. Subaru is all about the 1990's or something. My got damn truck has a more advanced all wheel drive system than anything Subaru makes. Subaru, which WAS considered in the leader in all wheel drive cars, doesn't offer a single model with real torque vectoring on any of the shafts. That's sad, and pathetic. Engines, do we even have to discuss theirs? Nah. Nothing to see here. The one thing they do excel in is chassis design in terms of safety, certainly not performance. It's not hating to discuss facts. I hope they come out with a truly innovative AWD system for the new STi. I'm waiting for one of these manus to stick the Twinster on the front and rear half shafts both so all 4 corners use mechanical torque vectoring instead of relying only on the rear half shafts to do it. Ford and VW have both released products where it's real torque vectoring in the rear, brake based on the front. Someone has to have the balls to do it right. And I hope that is Subaru.
Pre is offline  
Closed Thread

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:33 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2024 Axivo Inc.
Copyright ©1999 - 2019, North American Subaru Impreza Owners Club, Inc.

As an Amazon Associate I earn from qualifying purchases.

When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission
Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.