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Old 08-26-2020, 06:53 AM   #26
shake-rattle-n-roll
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Originally Posted by JP Chestnut View Post
Honda didn’t even have a knob for the radio volume on the civic. They have too FEW buttons, not to many.
Any vehicle that has a radio should have volume AND tuning knob. It seems like they're always taking step backwards with usability when trying to add more features.
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Old 08-26-2020, 10:08 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JP Chestnut View Post
Honda didn't even have a knob for the radio volume on the civic. They have too FEW buttons, not to many.
What?





Quote:
Originally Posted by Pre View Post
I think you need to think about your questions. You've obviously little experience in this space. Hard driving you aren't getting a 300 mile charge going in and out of turns, wfo pulls, etc.

I have driven the P85D, the P90D, and a Model 3, yes I can tell the weight especially on the S. I have also been DD'ing an electric car for 6.5 years. There isn't much you have for me in the way of information. I'm happy you are a happy with your purchase, but as I said, where I ride and drive for fun, any Tesla made would end up getting towed. It wouldn't make it.
Not sure what you are doing on public roads, or how sustained this driving is, so to each his own. That being said, for the average spirited driver, they would probably be ok in a Tesla.

Quote:
Originally Posted by shake-rattle-n-roll View Post
Any vehicle that has a radio should have volume AND tuning knob. It seems like they're always taking step backwards with usability when trying to add more features.
Tesla allows you to scroll up/down on the steering wheel for volume, and push that same scroll wheel left/right for a new song or station. Less is more, there are very few things that need a tactile button all the time, especially if voice command works.

Last edited by Snow Drift; 08-26-2020 at 10:13 AM.
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Old 08-26-2020, 10:22 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by Snow Drift View Post
What?






Not sure what you are doing on public roads, or how sustained this driving is, so to each his own. That being said, for the average spirited driver, they would probably be ok in a Tesla.


Tesla allows you to scroll up/down on the steering wheel for volume, and push that same scroll wheel left/right for a new song or station. Less is more, there are very few things that need a tactile button all the time, especially if voice command works.
The seats in the Civic looks so much better than the STI seats
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Old 08-26-2020, 11:11 AM   #29
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What?


It's almost like the world didn't start in model year 2019:
https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a2...yling-updates/
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Old 08-26-2020, 11:17 AM   #30
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What?





His statement is correct as it is past tense. The volume knob in the Civic took a hiatus until 2019.

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Old 08-26-2020, 11:18 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by Snow Drift View Post

Not sure what you are doing on public roads, or how sustained this driving is, so to each his own. That being said, for the average spirited driver, they would probably be ok in a Tesla.

Like I said, you have no experience and don't know what you are talking about in regards to this. You don't know how many miles to get there, how many miles you'd be driving, basically don't know anything but certainly willing to hand out advice on places you've never been, driving roads you've never seen. Many places with windy, twisty, country roads, well they don't have Starbucks out there, nor public chargers. You'd be on the side of the road waiting for a tow. As it pertains to what I am doing, is that any of your business? Now you're the judgemental judge sitting ahead of a jury lecturing folks? My my, how the Tesla occult want to lecture everyone once they have bought one.


What is asinine is I have 6.5 years driving an EV every day. I have plenty of experience in this space, and know how the range decreases with a number of variables. You newbies jump on here and start the lecturing. Hypocritical. What is a "spirited driver"? One who mashes the pedal to the floor for a highway onramp? Goes 20 over on a city highway? I don't even think you know what that means.
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Old 08-26-2020, 11:49 AM   #32
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https://www.autoevolution.com/news/2...nd-147879.html
I like the renders in this article, but we need our fellow photoshoppers to replace the levorg lower bumper with wrx concept lower bumper. the rear is fine be it this renders rear or preferably the concept rear similar to the Lexus ISF
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Old 08-26-2020, 01:16 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pre View Post
Like I said, you have no experience and don't know what you are talking about in regards to this. You don't know how many miles to get there, how many miles you'd be driving, basically don't know anything but certainly willing to hand out advice on places you've never been, driving roads you've never seen. Many places with windy, twisty, country roads, well they don't have Starbucks out there, nor public chargers. You'd be on the side of the road waiting for a tow. As it pertains to what I am doing, is that any of your business? Now you're the judgemental judge sitting ahead of a jury lecturing folks? My my, how the Tesla occult want to lecture everyone once they have bought one.


What is asinine is I have 6.5 years driving an EV every day. I have plenty of experience in this space, and know how the range decreases with a number of variables. You newbies jump on here and start the lecturing. Hypocritical. What is a "spirited driver"? One who mashes the pedal to the floor for a highway onramp? Goes 20 over on a city highway? I don't even think you know what that means.
I've known you on these boards for over a decade. I am not trying to personally offend you.

All I said was Teslas are performance cars. Your argument is that they don't fit your definition. Ok. There are plenty of tracks and places to drive the car and still charge if needed to get home, and even more than we can't. It's a new infrastructure. That's fine, but that doesn't really negate the performance that the cars exhibit. Perhaps they are mostly for drag strips.
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Old 08-26-2020, 01:35 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Snow Drift View Post
What?

Not sure what you are doing on public roads, or how sustained this driving is, so to each his own. That being said, for the average spirited driver, they would probably be ok in a Tesla.

Tesla allows you to scroll up/down on the steering wheel for volume, and push that same scroll wheel left/right for a new song or station. Less is more, there are very few things that need a tactile button all the time, especially if voice command works.
Having NOT driven a model 3 in anger/fun, so I'm basing my opinion on the reviews I've seen, what I've read, and watching the manual (yes, I actually did that, I was seriously considering LR RWD/AWD models).

I don't intend to speak for Pre, but his complaints are multifaceted and I think him and I are in a similar place with regards to the Model 3.

Easy stuff:
It's a heavy car with sub-par brakes; not 1980's "maybe they'll stop maybe they won't" brakes, but sub-par compared to similarly powered/heavy stuff out there: Easily remedied by the aftermarket, but regen will be affected during spirited driving, reducing usable range.

It's a heavy car with skinny A/S tires (for it's weight & especially for spirited driving): Easily remedied by the aftermarket, but range will be affected as rolling resistance increases, and regen will be doubly affected during spirited driving, reducing usable range.

Harder stuff:

Usable range depends on the individual: For battery longevity you don't run the car down below 10% or charge above 90% - so in reality max usable range is 80% of the manufacturers stated range, which will be negatively affected by the above mods and any aggressive driving.

Further on usable range: To muddy the waters while providing clarity, spirited driving will obliterate range. Here is an examples where a STOCK (no sticky tires, grabby brakes etc.) M3Ps smokes 250mi of range in 30 minutes of track driving, granted his goal was to deplete the battery as quickly as possible: https://insideevs.com/news/367599/vi...e-burns-range/
How close spirited driving gets to track driving depends on the individual, but 7/10s-8/10s on backroads is not unheard of, 9/10ths on certain roads.

The cooling system may or may not be up to the task of spirited driving depending on what spirited driving means to the individual. Back roads & canyons are a maybe (but not steep uphill or downhill with a lot of braking zones, and winding roads are bad due to the braking/accelerating which wastes energy), track is a no-no as it will go into limp mode fairly quickly and/or drain completely fairly quickly.

Unforgivable/no fixes (not related to driving dynamics):
This is what ultimately steered me away from the Model 3, I otherwise would be fine in a "California Camry".
Nearly every control is buried in the tablet, there are not enough dedicated physical controls inside the car.
-Wipers: yes there are auto-sensing wipers, but until I experience them and confirm they function well enough for me, this is a sticking point, and clearly they are an issue for other people as "THIS FEATURE IS IN BETA AND MAY NOT BE 100% ACCURATE" is right there in the manudeo/vidual.
-Headlights: automatic headlights, and automatic high beams but streetlights negate auto-high beams, I don't use them in any car equipped with them; you can manually control high beams with the stalk. Fog lights are tied here too and can only be accessed manually from the tablet
-HVAC & heated/AC seats: many manufacturers are guilty here, it's a deal breaker for me regardless of manufacturer; they need to be separate from the HU/Tablet to get my money, and physically controlled.
-Child Locks: I've got a 6yo, enough said
-Window lock: see above

could live with:
-steering wheel audio controls
-Doesn't come with a physical fob, but can be purchased from Tesla

Less bothersome, but irksome tablet only garbage I could live with:
-Steering wheel & mirrors: can set profiles for different drivers and access them through the tablet; this is an activity I usually set up at a stop anyways, but I do modify during the drive while getting it just right.
-Drive modes, adjustable steering etc.
-Phone call is tablet/voice only

Noteworthy:
-Public charging infrastructure is important when considering "drivers roads"
Tail of the Dragon has ONE public charging station, so you know, there's that, assuming the brakes/tires/cooling system were up to the task. Infrastructure isn't a deal breaker for me in the model 3, I'd have a home charger and it would be a commuter not a trip car (until public charging infrastructure improves).
-QC issues still exist - Tesla's paint flat out sucks, the panel gap issues, rear bumper cover collects sand/dirt in large quantities, etc.
-Walk through the forums and come across all of the software issues (flickering headlights, screen issues, etc.) typically they get fixed with a firmware patch, but then again, firmware patches sometimes bring up other issues.
-Tesla's business practices as it relates to "car ownership"; I'll just leave it there.

I personally wouldn't be buying a Model 3 as a performance car, it's not, it just happens to be that electric cars = quick; so it would be a quick daily/commuter for me, more likely to land in a model Y and lower it some so I can hatchback though (once they figure out the QC & software issues and put in more physical controls).

Let's be real, the "tablet all the things" move wasn't to be cool and futuristic, it was a manufacturing cost savings measure.

Thought this was a WRX/STI thread?
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Old 08-26-2020, 05:13 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sid03SVT View Post
Having NOT driven a model 3 in anger/fun, so I'm basing my opinion on the reviews I've seen, what I've read, and watching the manual (yes, I actually did that, I was seriously considering LR RWD/AWD models).

I don't intend to speak for Pre, but his complaints are multifaceted and I think him and I are in a similar place with regards to the Model 3.

Easy stuff:
It's a heavy car with sub-par brakes; not 1980's "maybe they'll stop maybe they won't" brakes, but sub-par compared to similarly powered/heavy stuff out there: Easily remedied by the aftermarket, but regen will be affected during spirited driving, reducing usable range.

It's a heavy car with skinny A/S tires (for it's weight & especially for spirited driving): Easily remedied by the aftermarket, but range will be affected as rolling resistance increases, and regen will be doubly affected during spirited driving, reducing usable range.

Harder stuff:

Usable range depends on the individual: For battery longevity you don't run the car down below 10% or charge above 90% - so in reality max usable range is 80% of the manufacturers stated range, which will be negatively affected by the above mods and any aggressive driving.

Further on usable range: To muddy the waters while providing clarity, spirited driving will obliterate range. Here is an examples where a STOCK (no sticky tires, grabby brakes etc.) M3Ps smokes 250mi of range in 30 minutes of track driving, granted his goal was to deplete the battery as quickly as possible: https://insideevs.com/news/367599/vi...e-burns-range/
How close spirited driving gets to track driving depends on the individual, but 7/10s-8/10s on backroads is not unheard of, 9/10ths on certain roads.

The cooling system may or may not be up to the task of spirited driving depending on what spirited driving means to the individual. Back roads & canyons are a maybe (but not steep uphill or downhill with a lot of braking zones, and winding roads are bad due to the braking/accelerating which wastes energy), track is a no-no as it will go into limp mode fairly quickly and/or drain completely fairly quickly.

Unforgivable/no fixes (not related to driving dynamics):
This is what ultimately steered me away from the Model 3, I otherwise would be fine in a "California Camry".
Nearly every control is buried in the tablet, there are not enough dedicated physical controls inside the car.
-Wipers: yes there are auto-sensing wipers, but until I experience them and confirm they function well enough for me, this is a sticking point, and clearly they are an issue for other people as "THIS FEATURE IS IN BETA AND MAY NOT BE 100% ACCURATE" is right there in the manudeo/vidual.
-Headlights: automatic headlights, and automatic high beams but streetlights negate auto-high beams, I don't use them in any car equipped with them; you can manually control high beams with the stalk. Fog lights are tied here too and can only be accessed manually from the tablet
-HVAC & heated/AC seats: many manufacturers are guilty here, it's a deal breaker for me regardless of manufacturer; they need to be separate from the HU/Tablet to get my money, and physically controlled.
-Child Locks: I've got a 6yo, enough said
-Window lock: see above

could live with:
-steering wheel audio controls
-Doesn't come with a physical fob, but can be purchased from Tesla

Less bothersome, but irksome tablet only garbage I could live with:
-Steering wheel & mirrors: can set profiles for different drivers and access them through the tablet; this is an activity I usually set up at a stop anyways, but I do modify during the drive while getting it just right.
-Drive modes, adjustable steering etc.
-Phone call is tablet/voice only

Noteworthy:
-Public charging infrastructure is important when considering "drivers roads"
Tail of the Dragon has ONE public charging station, so you know, there's that, assuming the brakes/tires/cooling system were up to the task. Infrastructure isn't a deal breaker for me in the model 3, I'd have a home charger and it would be a commuter not a trip car (until public charging infrastructure improves).
-QC issues still exist - Tesla's paint flat out sucks, the panel gap issues, rear bumper cover collects sand/dirt in large quantities, etc.
-Walk through the forums and come across all of the software issues (flickering headlights, screen issues, etc.) typically they get fixed with a firmware patch, but then again, firmware patches sometimes bring up other issues.
-Tesla's business practices as it relates to "car ownership"; I'll just leave it there.

I personally wouldn't be buying a Model 3 as a performance car, it's not, it just happens to be that electric cars = quick; so it would be a quick daily/commuter for me, more likely to land in a model Y and lower it some so I can hatchback though (once they figure out the QC & software issues and put in more physical controls).

Let's be real, the "tablet all the things" move wasn't to be cool and futuristic, it was a manufacturing cost savings measure.

Thought this was a WRX/STI thread?
I'm going to respond to some of this:

Easy Stuff
- The car is heavy, but the braking system is amazing. There is so much regenerative torque that you almost never touch the brake pedal (even to exit the highway). In terms of the actual brakes, they are Brembos for the most part. Now, if you mean for a HPDE, etc. Then of course you want better pads/lines/fluid.
- New tires. I mean come on, RE92 days...and the WRX was always a performance car in my mind.

Harder Stuff
- Range of 300+ is perfectly fine just about everyone. I only use Super Chargers on trips. Yes, this will get eaten up by aggressive driving, etc. Hell, I've had to refuel my old WRX after an HPDE at the track's gas station. $7/gal I think.
- Limp mode - Check out www.teslacorsa.com they do HPDE Model 3, etc. So it's not as bad as you may think.

Unforgivable/No fixes
1) Wipers = Windshield Single wipe or Spray/Wipe = Button on turn-signal stalk OR for rain use on screen to Auto or I, II, III etc for intermittent.
3) Headlights = I don't get the issue? They are very sensitive: Use the wipers? they turn on immediately. Go under a dark bridge for an extended time, they go on. Headlights can be set to Auto or Manual, you can push or pull the stalk to turn high beams on/off. Fog lights should be set to ON and then they turn on/off with the headlights. Why would you need to manually control them?
HVAC/Heated Seats = Why do you need a physical button? You set the vents basically once and the temp and heated seats are a simple press of the screen which never hides.

Less bothersome
Steering wheel and mirrors - You can modify them while driving. Just press controls, then click mirrors or wheel and play with the scroll wheels. Obviously, you shouldn't be doing this while driving, but I get your concern.
Drive Modes - What modes do you need access to on the fly?

Noteworthy
- Super Chargers are everywhere and you only use them on trips.
- QC - I've owned two (M3 and MY) and they are great. No issues.
- Business practices? I don't have any complaints.

They are quicker than most cars on the road...
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Old 08-26-2020, 07:15 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by Snow Drift View Post
I've known you on these boards for over a decade. I am not trying to personally offend you.

All I said was Teslas are performance cars. Your argument is that they don't fit your definition. Ok. There are plenty of tracks and places to drive the car and still charge if needed to get home, and even more than we can't. It's a new infrastructure. That's fine, but that doesn't really negate the performance that the cars exhibit. Perhaps they are mostly for drag strips.
I don’t care how long you’ve been here, you’re still incorrect.

You make the mistake of thinking your use case is the same as everyone else’s. It isn’t, not by a long shot.

I own an EV, and have for much longer than you have. I know how the range drops when driving spiritedly. Your Tesla would need a tow in my twisties. There are no chargers out there, and even if there were they’d be L2, same as my garage, and take entirely too long. I’m not spending 4 hours or longer of charging to drive 100 miles of twisty roads. The Model 3 is DOA out there.

My tracks closest to me, w t f would I want to track a Tesla? It’s a great DD, awesome for commuting, freeway driving, etc, in my metro, but that’s where it stops. You can goo ga over yours, go ahead, it’s your money, but I’m not going to agree with you on it. And this is a 2022 WRX STI thread. Take the Tesla fanboy stuff to the Tesla thread.
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Old 08-26-2020, 07:50 PM   #37
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You make the mistake of thinking your use case is the same as everyone else’s. It isn’t, not by a long shot.
The irony
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Old 08-26-2020, 10:34 PM   #38
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I'm also of the camp that just because a car can do something well doesn't mean it's a performance car. Like an original Corolla AE86 being used for touge racing. You can use a Tesla to race, but it's gonna have a bad time.

https://jalopnik.com/two-of-three-mo...ave-1844858093
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Old 08-26-2020, 11:10 PM   #39
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Originally Posted by chanomatik View Post
I'm also of the camp that just because a car can do something well doesn't mean it's a performance car. Like an original Corolla AE86 being used for touge racing. You can use a Tesla to race, but it's gonna have a bad time.

https://jalopnik.com/two-of-three-mo...ave-1844858093
oof

lol
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Old 08-27-2020, 08:12 AM   #40
Sid03SVT
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Drift View Post
I'm going to respond to some of this:

Easy Stuff
- The car is heavy, but the braking system is amazing. There is so much regenerative torque that you almost never touch the brake pedal (even to exit the highway). In terms of the actual brakes, they are Brembos for the most part. Now, if you mean for a HPDE, etc. Then of course you want better pads/lines/fluid.
- New tires. I mean come on, RE92 days...and the WRX was always a performance car in my mind.
These responses completely ignore the issue I brought up, which is spirited/performance driving. under normal driving (exiting a highway, rolling along in traffic) regenerative will do all the work, but once you start using the brakes while driving aggressively is where things fall apart.
And wider stickier tires (as well as obligatory wider wheels) reduce range under all circumstances, doubly so while driving aggressively.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Drift View Post
Harder Stuff
- Range of 300+ is perfectly fine just about everyone. I only use Super Chargers on trips. Yes, this will get eaten up by aggressive driving, etc. Hell, I've had to refuel my old WRX after an HPDE at the track's gas station. $7/gal I think.
- Limp mode - Check out www.teslacorsa.com they do HPDE Model 3, etc. So it's not as bad as you may think.
yep, 300 miles of range is great for a daily commuter, and I said as much. It's still orders of magnitude more convenient to refuel an ICE car over a EV, especially when you go for a track day or aggressive ride on back roads out in the sticks.
Even the latest version of track mode still pulls power after a few laps, I'm not sure what you're getting at here, it's clear the cooling system is not up to the task, it wasn't designed for it. If you're talking about how people tracking Tesla's makes them a performance car, that's a weak argument, people will and do track anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Drift View Post
Unforgivable/No fixes
1) Wipers = Windshield Single wipe or Spray/Wipe = Button on turn-signal stalk OR for rain use on screen to Auto or I, II, III etc for intermittent.
3) Headlights = I don't get the issue? They are very sensitive: Use the wipers? they turn on immediately. Go under a dark bridge for an extended time, they go on. Headlights can be set to Auto or Manual, you can push or pull the stalk to turn high beams on/off. Fog lights should be set to ON and then they turn on/off with the headlights. Why would you need to manually control them?
HVAC/Heated Seats = Why do you need a physical button? You set the vents basically once and the temp and heated seats are a simple press of the screen which never hides.
Tesla states the auto wipers are in BETA still. I know how the features BURIED IN THE TABLET work, I know how the very limited stalk controls work. The stalk is where the control of the wipers should be, not buried in the tablet, especially since the auto wipers are in BETA. It's a basic safety feature.
Again, manual control of the headlights is buried in the tablet. Another basic safety feature you have to take your eyes off the road to get to.
HVAC & heated & cooled seats - I adjust mine while driving all the time, I don't want to have to take my eyes off the road to do so, especially not when I have to dig through a touchscreen to do it - looking down and center to the console instead of looking at the road, when it could be simple buttons for the seats and dials for the HVAC.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Drift View Post
Less bothersome
Steering wheel and mirrors - You can modify them while driving. Just press controls, then click mirrors or wheel and play with the scroll wheels. Obviously, you shouldn't be doing this while driving, but I get your concern.
Drive Modes - What modes do you need access to on the fly?
Yes, I can adjust them while driving by digging through the touchscreen, again taking my eyes off the road.
I switch drive modes constantly; I turn off traction control before I leave my driveway, but turn it on when I want cruise control to function, I change drive modes based on traffic conditions. All physical buttons I can adjust without looking at/taking my eyes off the road.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Snow Drift View Post
Noteworthy
- Super Chargers are everywhere and you only use them on trips.
- QC - I've owned two (M3 and MY) and they are great. No issues.
- Business practices? I don't have any complaints.

They are quicker than most cars on the road...
Super Chargers are not everywhere; I looked at my regular/annual distance travel for family trips and there were not super chargers convenient to it. I looked at my regular work travel, and there were not super chargers convenient to it.
With regards to QC I guess you're one of the lucky ones? You can't just keep your head in the sand and pretend there aren't issues, or maybe you can.
Business practices - I don't want to rehash things here but right to repair issues & software unlocked features that don't go with the car after the original owner are a couple of the bigger ones.

Yes, EVs are quick, it's physics; I've said as much, I don't know how that addresses the issues or makes them a performance car. There is a 1000hp Bisimoto Odyssey out there, it's quick, but it's not a performance car.

Last edited by Sid03SVT; 08-27-2020 at 08:19 AM.
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Old 08-27-2020, 10:41 AM   #41
Pre
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Originally Posted by SoDealer View Post
The irony

And you whine to mods and cry about this and that and look at what you do. What a hypocrite. I've never seen someone like you. You point the finger at other people then go do the exact same thing.
There are no superchargers at my local tracks. You, like him, must not do trackdays. Fuel of any kind does not last long. Maybe y'all should start a bowling team together.
And I advocate for choice in the marketplace. Not someone trying to sell me on something that don't even use for the same purpose.
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Old 08-27-2020, 12:37 PM   #42
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I'm also of the camp that just because a car can do something well doesn't mean it's a performance car. Like an original Corolla AE86 being used for touge racing. You can use a Tesla to race, but it's gonna have a bad time.

https://jalopnik.com/two-of-three-mo...ave-1844858093
Good to know; but, I'm not sure it proves anything though.
All kind of drivers and all kind of cars crash during practice.
Especially at Pikes Peak. It's the nature of competitive racing...

Anyway, I'm on the sidelines waiting to see what we're going to get under the hood of the new WRX/STI *and* if we're going to get anything besides another darn compact(ish) sedan.
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Old 08-27-2020, 01:40 PM   #43
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Good to know; but, I'm not sure it proves anything though.
All kind of drivers and all kind of cars crash during practice.
Especially at Pikes Peak. It's the nature of competitive racing...

Anyway, I'm on the sidelines waiting to see what we're going to get under the hood of the new WRX/STI *and* if we're going to get anything besides another darn compact(ish) sedan.
I want a wagon, wagon, wagon, wagon, wagon, wagon, wagon, wagon, wagon, wagon, wagon, wagon, estate, estate, IT'S A SEDAN! SEDAN! oooh it's a SEDAN!! but I want a wagon, wagon, wagon, wagon, wagon, wagon, wagon, wagon, wagon, wagon, wagon, wagon, estate, estate....
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Old 08-27-2020, 02:43 PM   #44
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Randy'S GOOD run in the tesla beat the next fastest car up.pikes peak by over 26 seconds lol. In addition he has competed there no less than 6 times and he said that the tesla was the best car he has ever driven there...ill take that over some internet keyboard warrior who drove a prius for 6 years and is more concerned about finding a starbucks in the middel of east bum f***...with high performance all electric......the key here is one needs to be smarter than the car lol. I guess some just arent ready intelectually.
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Old 08-27-2020, 03:01 PM   #45
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These responses completely ignore the issue I brought up, which is spirited/performance driving. under normal driving (exiting a highway, rolling along in traffic) regenerative will do all the work, but once you start using the brakes while driving aggressively is where things fall apart.
And wider stickier tires (as well as obligatory wider wheels) reduce range under all circumstances, doubly so while driving aggressively.
Sending PM

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Old 08-27-2020, 03:14 PM   #46
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I don't care how long you've been here, you're still incorrect.

You make the mistake of thinking your use case is the same as everyone else's. It isn't, not by a long shot.

I own an EV, and have for much longer than you have. I know how the range drops when driving spiritedly. Your Tesla would need a tow in my twisties. There are no chargers out there, and even if there were they'd be L2, same as my garage, and take entirely too long. I'm not spending 4 hours or longer of charging to drive 100 miles of twisty roads. The Model 3 is DOA out there.

My tracks closest to me, w t f would I want to track a Tesla? It's a great DD, awesome for commuting, freeway driving, etc, in my metro, but that's where it stops. You can goo ga over yours, go ahead, it's your money, but I'm not going to agree with you on it. And this is a 2022 WRX STI thread. Take the Tesla fanboy stuff to the Tesla thread.
If L2 is the only option then yes, I would be concerned about range in your scenario.

People do track them. I'm not saying it's the next Miata.

I'm just saying Tesla can be part of a particular category, which includes a wide range of models.

Last edited by Snow Drift; 08-27-2020 at 04:19 PM.
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Old 08-27-2020, 07:15 PM   #47
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If L2 is the only option then yes, I would be concerned about range in your scenario.

People do track them. I'm not saying it's the next Miata.

I'm just saying Tesla can be part of a particular category, which includes a wide range of models.
Can doesn’t mean it’s a good choice. You can go buy an old civic from the 90’s, throw boost at it and make into a track car. It’ll spin and understeer all over the track. The owner can claim it’s a performance car. I’d beg to differ.

One day, the tracks here may have superchargers or Chademo, or both. Do a 20-30 minute session, then plug it in so you can make the next session. But that isn’t today. One day my twisties may have Chademo or Superchargers at the gas stations, to enable you to drive out there, beat the hell out of the car, then stop to charge it, but that is not today. That infrastructure does not exist. And even if it did, it would be taking time out of my day to charge the thing, taking that precious riding or driving time away from me. That’s fine for commuting, around town driving, etc, where I pay no time penalty as I charge it in my garage when I’m not using it.

But today, it’s not really a performance car. My definition of that is obviously different to yours. My definition means twisties or track. Not doing what the busters do, buying a performance car, then the only performance or sport driving they do is nailing the on ramps, passing someone on the highway, or mobbing in the fast lane. Performance or sport driving is in and out of corners, enthusiastically, going WFO, hard braking at your marker, etc. We are just not there yet for EV’s doing this, not 4 wheels or 2. Missing a session at the track would suck too because you need juice and you need to skip a session to charge the thing. Even gasoline, I bring MX cans with me to the track, 4 wheels or 2 so refuel is 2-3 minutes. Out in the twisties, getting gasoline is done while I take a piss. Less than 5 minutes. Just not possible with an EV today. 2020, they are great in the city, around metros, outstanding commuters, that provide some performance in your daily routine. But they still weigh too much, and take too long to charge. That will certainly change in the future but not today.

Just because a minute few track them doesn’t make it feasible for everyone. That’s some internet lore bs there. Maybe in California, where a Tesla supercharger exists right next to the track. You’ll still pay in time to use the track that day. You’ll miss a session, or at the bare minimum be stuck some place waiting for it to charge just so you can drive it back home. As I mentioned to you, I’ve been driving one every day for six and a half years. I know the limitations, the range dip, better than most, when you start beating on it. I can see it now, Tesla owners tracking their cars, and having to bring gas/diesel generators with them to charge the thing back up. Kind of defeats the point. It’s a fast car, no doubt, handles well, but it’s still an appliance at this point. If you’re the on-ramp, passing folks type of driver only, sure it’s a performance car to you. You aren’t taking anywhere sport driving it through turns for hours. You’re taking a couple of corners and using it on the highway. And mashing the pedal in a DCT, or an EV, will never be as engaging as rowing gears, and working for it. Each to their own though.
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Old 08-27-2020, 08:59 PM   #48
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And you whine to mods and cry about this and that and look at what you do. What a hypocrite. I've never seen someone like you. You point the finger at other people then go do the exact same thing.
There are no superchargers at my local tracks. You, like him, must not do trackdays. Fuel of any kind does not last long. Maybe y'all should start a bowling team together.
And I advocate for choice in the marketplace. Not someone trying to sell me on something that don't even use for the same purpose.
I'm not backing Snow Drift in his message, I'm calling you out for you calling him out for something you are the poster child for. Every post you make is overflowing with "I..." There is no ability to see things from the perspectives of others. And if you think me calling you out is the same as you being downright nasty to people...

Last edited by SoDealer; 08-27-2020 at 09:07 PM.
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Old 08-28-2020, 01:49 AM   #49
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I'm not backing Snow Drift in his message, I'm calling you out for you calling him out for something you are the poster child for. Every post you make is overflowing with "I..." There is no ability to see things from the perspectives of others. And if you think me calling you out is the same as you being downright nasty to people...
You aren't "nasty" to people on here? What a hypocrite. Your post lighting this exchange off is the very definition of what you always do, to many people here, textbook passive aggressive behavior. I guarantee that's not the first time in your life you've heard that either. Some snide remark you try to hit someone with, an insult, and at the same time you point the finger. That makes you a hypocrite. I didn't insult him. I severely disagreed with what he was trying to pass off as truth. There is a difference.

I said it's not a performance car. Yet you say "I" like "I" have the entire market cornered for road courses, twisty farm roads, canyons, mountains, etc. That's laughable. Hey everyone I have the only land to sell next to the tracks, mountains, canyons, andtwisty roads. I've got 1-50 acre plots for Ten million bucks an acre!


Last edited by Pre; 08-28-2020 at 02:31 AM.
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Old 08-28-2020, 07:30 AM   #50
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Originally Posted by Pre View Post
You aren’t “nasty” to people on here? What a hypocrite. Your post lighting this exchange off is the very definition of what you always do, to many people here, textbook passive aggressive behavior. I guarantee that’s not the first time in your life you’ve heard that either. Some snide remark you try to hit someone with, an insult, and at the same time you point the finger. That makes you a hypocrite. I didn’t insult him. I severely disagreed with what he was trying to pass off as truth. There is a difference.

I said it’s not a performance car. Yet you say “I” like “I” have the entire market cornered for road courses, twisty farm roads, canyons, mountains, etc. That’s laughable. Hey everyone I have the only land to sell next to the tracks, mountains, canyons, andtwisty roads. I’ve got 1-50 acre plots for Ten million bucks an acre!

https://youtu.be/DksSPZTZES0
There's a reason he's one of the other people that have this status with me...

SoDealer This user is on your Ignore List.

--kC
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