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Old 02-02-2021, 12:02 PM   #1
parkern
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Default What AWD car to upgrade to after STI?

I'm looking to buy a car. I'd really like a GT-R, but I'm also usually frugal (outside of cars) and I wouldn't be able to justify keeping a car that expensive long term. So my current plan is to buy a used GT-R, keep it for two years to get it out of my system, and then sell it and buy something cheaper, like another STI. But I've been thinking recently, it doesn't absolutely have to be a GT-R, I just want a fun car. If I could find something else that is AWD and as much fun as a GT-R (with most of that fun coming from how quick it is) but for more like $50k or less, I'd feel better keeping that long term. I'd put under 5000 miles/year on it. I want something reliable, but it's also not a daily driver so it doesn't have to be Toyota reliable. And I'm happy modifying something to get it to be comparable to the GT-R as long as the total price is still under $50k and that it is still reliable enough. If I didn't love AWD I'd get a used Camaro ZL1, because it checks every other box. Do you guys have any suggestions?

By the way, I currently have no car, I sold it when I started working from home. I used to have an STI and I loved everything about it except I wished it was faster. If I could get it to be close in performance to a GT-R for under $50k and still be somewhat reliable, I'd be happy buying another STI.
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Old 02-02-2021, 12:25 PM   #2
parkern
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One more thing, there's a one owner 2005 STI on eBay with 61,000 miles and some mods that supposedly bring it to 420 hp. It's listed at $22,500. I'd totally buy something like that if the performance was comparable at all to a GT-R. I don't need anything new or fancy, and if I can get a super fun car for $22k I'd be all over that.
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Old 02-02-2021, 12:32 PM   #3
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I'd be very careful with someone else's modified car unless you can personally look it over and have a reputable shop you trust give it a clean bill of health. Even then, there is a chance unseen corners may have been cut.
Would it be just street driving or do you plan to track it? $50k is plenty budget to play with. There are always Subarus but also Evos or even Audis if you want to go that route.
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Old 02-02-2021, 12:36 PM   #4
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I’m in a similar spot and unfortunately there really isn’t an car that’s “an STI but better and faster.”

Two ready options would be a Porsche C4S of whatever vintage you can afford or an Audi RS3. Both are “better” than an STI but they’re so different as to be almost incomparable.
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Old 02-02-2021, 12:41 PM   #5
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I just sold my 2nd STi that I bought new 10 years ago. I've also been looking at GTRs, new STis, and rwd cars like GT350, M2, M4

There is no new manual AWD that compares to the STi for the price. It's the last of the truly analog.

A $50k GTR is going to be old. Be prepared for issues, repairs, etc. I'm a GTR fan but have only been looking at 2017 or newer and they can't be had for much less than $80k and I don't think I can justify that. I'm also really wanting a manual.
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Old 02-02-2021, 12:56 PM   #6
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Is it possible to get a Subaru, Evo, or Audi up to GT-R levels for under $50k and without making it too unreliable though? Same with a BMW? I've looked at cars like the Audi S3/5, BMW M2/4, Audi RS3/5, but I don't know anything about mods for those and in stock form they're all still pretty far off from a GT-R.

I might track it once a year or less. What I really like to do is take early morning drives in the mountains before most other people are awake. I just plan on taking fun drives like that, taking it to run random errands, etc. I'm not to worried about long distance comfort since it isn't a daily driver. But even if it's not a daily driver, I don't like the feeling of constantly being worried something will break. So I don't want something that has to be modified THAT much.

Like I said, my current plan is just to get a GT-R and that's likely what I'll still do. I'm just trying to figure out if there are other options since all I'm interested in is the fun part, and I have a feeling I might be able to find something as fun as a GT-R for much less.
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Old 02-02-2021, 12:56 PM   #7
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Is it possible to get a Subaru, Evo, or Audi up to GT-R levels for under $50k and without making it too unreliable though? Same with a BMW? I've looked at cars like the Audi S3/5, BMW M2/4, Audi RS3/5, but I don't know anything about mods for those and in stock form they're all still pretty far off from a GT-R.

I might track it once a year or less. What I really like to do is take early morning drives in the mountains before most other people are awake. I just plan on taking fun drives like that, taking it to run random errands, etc. I'm not to worried about long distance comfort since it isn't a daily driver. But even if it's not a daily driver, I don't like the feeling of constantly being worried something will break. So I don't want something that has to be modified THAT much.

Like I said, my current plan is just to get a GT-R and that's likely what I'll still do. I'm just trying to figure out if there are other options since all I'm interested in is the fun part, and I have a feeling I might be able to find something as fun as a GT-R for much less.
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Old 02-02-2021, 01:04 PM   #8
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I'm waiting to see what Toyota's "GR Hot Hatch" is going to look like. I think the latest rumors are is that it is going to be a Corolla? It probably won't have the power numbers of the STI, but my guess is that it will also weigh less than an STI. I actually bought a Fiesta ST over a WRX because the platform just keeps becoming more and more bloated.

But if you are looking at strictly power numbers, that probably isn't going to work for you. I'd just be careful because if the GTR feels a lot faster than an STI, you might not be able to ever go back without feeling disappointed.
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Old 02-02-2021, 01:44 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lidrew View Post
I just sold my 2nd STi that I bought new 10 years ago. I've also been looking at GTRs, new STis, and rwd cars like GT350, M2, M4

There is no new manual AWD that compares to the STi for the price. It's the last of the truly analog.

A $50k GTR is going to be old. Be prepared for issues, repairs, etc. I'm a GTR fan but have only been looking at 2017 or newer and they can't be had for much less than $80k and I don't think I can justify that. I'm also really wanting a manual.
Yeah, I wouldn't buy a $50k GT-R. I'm planning on spending $70-80k. I'm basically looking at two options:
  1. Buy a GT-R for $70-80k, keep it for two years, sell it and buy something in the $30-50K range to keep long term
  2. Buy something under $50k (total price including any necessary mods) that is at least close to keeping up with a GT-R but still somewhat reliable and keep it long term

The downside to option 1 is I'll lose a few thousand on the GT-R if I only keep it a couple years between the taxes and fees I'd be paying on top of the $80k, depreciation over 2 years, and higher than average maintenance. I'm expecting the total of those costs to be $15k or more, and I'm actually probably okay with that. Option 2 is just me trying to see if it's necessary, or if I can find a car that is equally as fun as a GT-R that I'd keep longer term and not lose $15k over two years if I don't have to. And though I'd prefer a manual, I think the GT-R's transmission is the right fit for the rest of the car, a manual would make less sense in a GT-R. I forgot that the M2 and M4 didn't have a RWD option. I remember seeing that the 2021 M4 will have an AWD option, but I'd have to wait for used ones to get down under $50k and it still wouldn't keep up with a GT-R.
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Old 02-02-2021, 02:13 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by md00150028 View Post
I'm waiting to see what Toyota's "GR Hot Hatch" is going to look like. I think the latest rumors are is that it is going to be a Corolla? It probably won't have the power numbers of the STI, but my guess is that it will also weigh less than an STI. I actually bought a Fiesta ST over a WRX because the platform just keeps becoming more and more bloated.

But if you are looking at strictly power numbers, that probably isn't going to work for you. I'd just be careful because if the GTR feels a lot faster than an STI, you might not be able to ever go back without feeling disappointed.
I had a Focus ST that I got up to almost 300whp/400tq (on E30) and it was fine, but I couldn't stand FWD. I'd definitely be disappointed with a stock STI. I know an STI can be as fast/fun as a GT-R with enough mods, but I think it passes the point of reliability that I'm comfortable with. That being said, I'm planning on an average of $2,700/year in maintenance on the GT-R at 5000 miles driven/year. And I don't have any experience with modified STIs, so most of what I know are the horror stories.
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Old 02-02-2021, 02:22 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parkern View Post
Is it possible to get a Subaru, Evo, or Audi up to GT-R levels for under $50k and without making it too unreliable though? Same with a BMW? I've looked at cars like the Audi S3/5, BMW M2/4, Audi RS3/5, but I don't know anything about mods for those and in stock form they're all still pretty far off from a GT-R.

I might track it once a year or less. What I really like to do is take early morning drives in the mountains before most other people are awake. I just plan on taking fun drives like that, taking it to run random errands, etc. I'm not to worried about long distance comfort since it isn't a daily driver. But even if it's not a daily driver, I don't like the feeling of constantly being worried something will break. So I don't want something that has to be modified THAT much.

Like I said, my current plan is just to get a GT-R and that's likely what I'll still do. I'm just trying to figure out if there are other options since all I'm interested in is the fun part, and I have a feeling I might be able to find something as fun as a GT-R for much less.
I got a 19' bmw M240 M Performance model for $48k new with incentives. With just a dinan intake, JB4, and and xhp trans tune it ran an 11.7. Pretty good for a basically stock car. definitely could run lower 11's with a decat and "stage 2" tune. You can also run an E30 blend on them through bm3. They also are a blast to drive.
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Old 02-02-2021, 03:22 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Supraru View Post
I got a 19' bmw M240 M Performance model for $48k new with incentives. With just a dinan intake, JB4, and and xhp trans tune it ran an 11.7. Pretty good for a basically stock car. definitely could run lower 11's with a decat and "stage 2" tune. You can also run an E30 blend on them through bm3. They also are a blast to drive.
That does sound like a good alternative. I'd be buying used which should give me plenty of room for modifications and still be under $50k. I'll have to look into that more. Thanks for the suggestion.
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Old 02-02-2021, 03:31 PM   #13
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I agree. I'm not a fan of the FWD. That's why I'm hoping Toyota pulls through for me
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Old 02-02-2021, 03:40 PM   #14
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If you want a proper manual transmission, a private party Porsche Turbo 996.

$50k is going to buy a total garbage 09 GT-R and make you hate it so much, you'll end up buying a Prius.
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Old 02-02-2021, 04:27 PM   #15
parkern
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If you want a proper manual transmission, a private party Porsche Turbo 996.

$50k is going to buy a total garbage 09 GT-R and make you hate it so much, you'll end up buying a Prius.
Well like I said, the $50k budget is not for a GT-R. That's the budget if I get something other than a GT-R. My budget for a GT-R is $80k, which would get me a nice one (like a 2013 with 6900 miles currently for sale on a GT-R forum for $75k). I just don't know if I want to keep that expensive of a car long term.
I think there are other things I'd rather do with the money, I don't know if any car is worth $80k to me. So my current plan is to just buy one and not keep it forever, unless I can find a semi comparable option for a lower price.
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Old 02-02-2021, 04:27 PM   #16
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Spend a little more and get yourself a v-spec II , # 147/200



https://jspecauto.com/en/nissan/comp...quality-build/
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Old 02-02-2021, 05:45 PM   #17
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ill admit I do also want to drive an r32 vspec...has been on my bucket list for a while! I really like my STI an not sure I will also ever find something similar again
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Old 02-02-2021, 05:59 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Foo_Blyat View Post
Spend a little more and get yourself a v-spec II , # 147/200



https://jspecauto.com/en/nissan/comp...quality-build/
Unfortunately, for myself at least, I cannot see myself trying to daily one of these. I'd have a panic attack leaving it unattended anywhere other than my garage.

Most certainly on my short list of cars to own at some point. The R33 has been growing on me more and more as the days pass though... that and the Celica GT-Four

-D
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Old 02-02-2021, 06:02 PM   #19
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ill admit I do also want to drive an r32 vspec...has been on my bucket list for a while! I really like my STI an not sure I will also ever find something similar again
The sti is and always will be something unique.

-D
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Old 02-02-2021, 09:20 PM   #20
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Old 02-02-2021, 09:25 PM   #21
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that and the Celica GT-Four

-D
They have two of those for sale too

https://jspecauto.com/en/toyota/comp...ge-rally-icon/


https://jspecauto.com/en/toyota/comp...rally-special/
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Old 02-03-2021, 10:01 AM   #22
parkern
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I think I might have actually found a possible alternative. An Audi RS3 with a tune only is just about equal to a GT-R in the 1/4 mile, and it can be had for under $50k with room for modifications. After a tune, it seems to still keep up with GT-Rs mod for mod. I haven't driven one, but it's probably something I'll look into.
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Old 02-03-2021, 10:06 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by parkern View Post
I think I might have actually found a possible alternative. An Audi RS3 with a tune only is just about equal to a GT-R in the 1/4 mile, and it can be had for under $50k with room for modifications. After a tune, it seems to still keep up with GT-Rs mod for mod. I haven't driven one, but it's probably something I'll look into.
You mean the car I suggested in the fourth response?
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Old 02-03-2021, 10:53 AM   #24
parkern
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You mean the car I suggested in the fourth response?
Yep haha. Thanks for the suggestion. When I first looked them up, they didn't seem close enough to me. But then I saw what a tune alone can do, and now I'm interested.
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Old 02-05-2021, 09:19 AM   #25
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Anyone thinking of buying an Audi should watch the episode on Wheeler Dealers from last season where the bought an S3 or S4 Twin Turbo. To do basic maintenance on the car they had to take the entire front end off it, I have never seen so much disassembly to do essentilly routine work on a front engine car. I have always love German cars, I owned at one point a Porsche 944, but the things are money pits.
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