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Old 10-07-2020, 03:41 PM   #51
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Originally Posted by neg_matnik View Post
Yup. I understand that, for the 1st gen, Subaru had no suitable N/A engines AND no suitable turbo engines (Toyota was never going to allow dinosaur EJ25 turbo into a GT86).
They HAD TO destroke FB20 to get a reliable higher rev'ing engine (FB20 had too much stroke to rev comfortably and 129.X mm rods are not helping either).
But, today, we have FA20DIT and FA24DIT; seems like re-engineering FA24DIT to make good NA power is just costly masochism, IMO.
I'd drop the 205-hp FA20 as is into the 2nd gen for those who demand uncorrupted NA power and then I'd drop either FA20DIT or FA24DIT as an optional engine for those who don't mind turbo power delivery.
But, then again, maybe it just doesn't make financial sense to offer 2 engines in a car like this. Don't know.
I recall Subaru having said (pretty sure it was when the fa20dit released in the WRX) that they could not just drop this motor into the BRZ because the placement of everything would drop the turbo too low in relation to the ground.

whether that was an excuse from a marketing team so they didn't have to give a real answer, who knows, but that's what they said.
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Old 10-07-2020, 03:55 PM   #52
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Yeah, unfortunately sometimes overwhelming cost kills dreams.
Except the engine is not the cost. Toyota's 'premium RWD' transmission choices provide the overwhelming cost.

Packaging killed the FA20DIT, and rather than upset the design, they decided to do the same for round 2.
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Old 10-07-2020, 04:00 PM   #53
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Except the engine is not the cost. Toyota's 'premium RWD' transmission choices provide the overwhelming cost.

Packaging killed the FA20DIT, and rather than upset the design, they decided to do the same for round 2.
He was talking about offering 2 engines, NA and Turbo. That requires certifying 2 completely different cars even though it might be the same car otherwise. That just adds cost.

Plus Toyota apparently didn't want turbo on the 86 (?) so why not just keep it all the same for the BRZ.
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Old 10-07-2020, 04:02 PM   #54
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If one's looking for a >300hp/300lb-ft car, stick with the 400Z thread. This thread is for BRZ folks and no need to ruin their excitement.

I'm actually pretty excited myself to drive the next BRZ to see what it is all about. So far the car looks 100x better than the Z.
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Old 10-07-2020, 04:38 PM   #55
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So ruining the excitement for the Z in the Z thread by saying it's ugly over and over again is ok but discussing the BRZ isn't ok here? You brought up the Z in this thread and had to call it ugly to prove what exactly?
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Old 10-07-2020, 05:10 PM   #56
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Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
Except the engine is not the cost. Toyota's 'premium RWD' transmission choices provide the overwhelming cost.

Packaging killed the FA20DIT, and rather than upset the design, they decided to do the same for round 2.
I didn't even consider the cost of the manual and auto Aisin trannies; thanks for calling it out.
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Old 10-07-2020, 06:07 PM   #57
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So ruining the excitement for the Z in the Z thread by saying it's ugly over and over again is ok but discussing the BRZ isn't ok here? You brought up the Z in this thread and had to call it ugly to prove what exactly?
You should read the post again. My point was if you want more power keep it in the 400Z thread as Nissan is willing to offer power in the 400HP range (I guess).

BRZ will never reach 300hp/300lb-ft in stock form so why bother complaining about power here.

I have more interest in the BRZ (buy or not is another story) to see what this new engine and car can do as far as perceived speed, and the better appearance is a plus.
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Old 10-07-2020, 06:40 PM   #58
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You should read the post again. My point was if you want more power keep it in the 400Z thread as Nissan is willing to offer power in the 400HP range (I guess).

BRZ will never reach 300hp/300lb-ft in stock form so why bother complaining about power here.

I have more interest in the BRZ (buy or not is another story) to see what this new engine and car can do as far as perceived speed, and the better appearance is a plus.
Who said this?

Not me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
Except the engine is not the cost. Toyota's 'premium RWD' transmission choices provide the overwhelming cost.

Packaging killed the FA20DIT, and rather than upset the design, they decided to do the same for round 2.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
Turbo boost is not equivalent to NA bump. That's the entire argument for wanting a tunable turbo engine vs. a meh starting point with meager bumps in output over a couple decades. See Z.
Subaru could have gone with an FA20DIT pumping out 210 hp and 200 tq and made a lot more people happy IMO. Settling for x because the expectation that y won't ever happen so z is justified is a perfectly acceptable opinion for owners to have. There'd just be infinitely more owners if y happened.
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Old 10-07-2020, 07:18 PM   #59
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Originally Posted by 4S-TURBO View Post
Who said this?

Not me.





Subaru could have gone with an FA20DIT pumping out 210 hp and 200 tq and made a lot more people happy IMO. Settling for x because the expectation that y won't ever happen so z is justified is a perfectly acceptable opinion for owners to have. There'd just be infinitely more owners if y happened.
I’m not sure a 200/200 DIT BRZ would actually be better than whatever the NA BRZ ends up being - at least stock. You’d get all the crap tuning, weight, and complexity of a Subaru turbo motor yet it would still be underpowered.
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Old 10-07-2020, 08:22 PM   #60
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I'm not sure a 200/200 DIT BRZ would actually be better than whatever the NA BRZ ends up being - at least stock. You'd get all the crap tuning, weight, and complexity of a Subaru turbo motor yet it would still be underpowered.
Disagree. I'd rather work with 5k rpms than 3k rpms. And I can't stand the minivan moaning fro another decade.
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Old 10-07-2020, 08:35 PM   #61
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Looks like it needs a turbo.
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Old 10-07-2020, 09:53 PM   #62
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Disagree. I'd rather work with 5k rpms than 3k rpms. And I can't stand the minivan moaning fro another decade.
Hey hey, my minivan sounds quite a lot better than even my WRX, thank you.
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Old 10-09-2020, 12:14 AM   #63
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It needs a Yamaha-tuned Toyota I4 mounted at 30deg to the passenger side (a la old BMWs) and some longer (bespoke) front control arms. That would be super easy to boost and relatively cheap to upgrade the internals for reliability under boost, but also provide an excellent tuner platform.

Subaru's junky engine is just going to be the same old Achilles heel in a new wrapper.

Or hell, just throw a fancy electronic rear diff and some over-active yaw control on it.. that's all the kids really want these days... a drift mode they can use on the street with no talent.
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Old 10-09-2020, 07:25 AM   #64
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Ah, CJ. Sounding grumpier each day. Don't ever change, homie. Don't ever change.
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Old 10-09-2020, 10:15 AM   #65
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hell, if we're making bespoke engines for this thing, why not a small displacement (something in the 2.4 liter range) i6 with a closed deck, D4S injection, and a 48v mild hybrid?
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Old 10-09-2020, 03:34 PM   #66
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hell, if we're making bespoke engines for this thing, why not a small displacement (something in the 2.4 liter range) i6 with a closed deck, D4S injection, and a 48v mild hybrid?
A tuned version of the 1.8 would have been a nice option too
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Old 10-17-2020, 11:43 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by YungBoba View Post
$30K sounds about right (sadly) given that they already start at around $28K right now.

A base MX-5 starts at $26.5K and can get up to mid-30s with options. I haven't driven either car so I can't compare driving dynamics (aka the main and probably only reason you'd buy one of these things) but the new BRZ better be damn good if it's gonna start at that much higher than the MX-5.
you don't want a base Mx-5, you need the club if you want a suspension that doesn't feel like a yaris and it comes with LSD plus other goodies.
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Old 10-26-2020, 05:27 PM   #68
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https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mot...ine-japan/amp/
wait a minute, did someone give away the reveal date by mistake or is it for something else even bigger
"When contacted for this story, a spokesperson said the American arm of the company had "no comment on future product" and that its "next big news will be on November 17." So, watch this space."

Last edited by bugatti0628; 10-26-2020 at 05:36 PM.
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Old 10-27-2020, 08:11 AM   #69
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Originally Posted by bugatti0628 View Post
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.mot...ine-japan/amp/
wait a minute, did someone give away the reveal date by mistake or is it for something else even bigger
"When contacted for this story, a spokesperson said the American arm of the company had "no comment on future product" and that its "next big news will be on November 17." So, watch this space."
Makes sense. Nov 17 is just days before the original date of the 2020 LA Autoshow, which is the perfect place for the BRZ reveal.

Subaru_USA instagram said the 2022 reveal would be "this fall."
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Old 11-04-2020, 10:39 AM   #70
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https://www.subaru.com/vehicles/futu...20-teaser.html

Quote:
The all-new 2022 Subaru BRZ - World Premiere coming this Fall.
The all-new 2022 BRZ is coming, and the countdown has already started. Sign up to be one of the first to receive the latest updates on the world premiere on November 18.

Lucky attendees to the 2020 Subiefest World Record Attempt and Charity Drive got a sneak-peek of the 2022 BRZ on October 4, but the official reveal is right around the corner.
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Old 11-04-2020, 11:22 AM   #71
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Hard to tell based on a tiny picture, but it looks good to me. Of course, the old one looks good too, so for me it's going to come down to the weight, interior, and engine.
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Old 11-04-2020, 11:45 AM   #72
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It will likely weigh too much for its engine (according to most here) and have a dated interior, although I thought the interior and instrument cluster was neat when the 1st gen first came out.
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Old 11-04-2020, 02:14 PM   #73
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I don't get anyone saying that it has a dated interior. it's a functional interior, offering everything I need very close at hand, and the seats are amazingly snug.
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Old 11-04-2020, 02:38 PM   #74
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I don't get anyone saying that it has a dated interior. it's a functional interior, offering everything I need very close at hand, and the seats are amazingly snug.
The interior looks like it was designed two generations ago. Same as the STI. That's to be expected when your interiors are average at best and you go so long between generations.

Last edited by JP Chestnut; 11-04-2020 at 02:39 PM. Reason: What the hell is wrong with apostrophes on this forum?
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Old 11-04-2020, 03:35 PM   #75
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That photo looks great. Combined with those rear quarter shots we've seen previously, it's gonna be a good looking car. Would be nice if they could give it some more power for additional appeal.
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