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Old 10-08-2021, 03:06 PM   #1
AVANTI R5
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Default Next-Gen Subaru Forester Arriving In 2023 With Toyota Hybrid Power

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Toyota's PHEV powertrain is a big step up from the current engine.
Subaru has built a strong following around the Forester compact SUV. But according to the Japanese magazine Mag-X, the next-generation Subaru Forester is right around the corner. Allegedly, it will debut in 2023, and in a surprise move, it will use Toyota's hybrid engine technology.

The all-new Forester is rumored to debut in 2023, which makes sense considering it was recently facelifted. Subaru also added a new Wilderness trim to the range, making it even better off the beaten path than it already was.
By now, Subaru and Toyota have a solid partnership, dating back to the original 86 and BRZ. The coalition expanded to include the new GR 86 and BRZ and even electric SUVs that were designed side by side. Subaru's version is called the Solterra, while Toyota chose the name bZ4x.

Despite being similar in size, the new Forester is not expected to share a platform with the Toyota RAV4. Though it would make financial sense, it would move the Forester too far away from its inherent off-road ability. The RAV4 is a good SUV, but Subaru's global platform is a step above. However, the hybridization could come from the plug-in RAV4 Prime.

Subaru will likely stick with its permanent all-wheel-drive formula, which made it a huge sales success in the USA. However, the current engine is a generation behind, and that's where Toyota can lend a helping hand.

Subaru will use Toyota's hybrid tech to equip the Forester with an Atkinson cycle engine and two electric motors. This will also give the Forester plug-in capability, making it significantly more efficient than the current model.

We're not entirely sure how the AWD system will work, however. The current RAV4 PHEV uses an eAWD system, so there is no mechanical coupling between the front and rear axle. Considering Subaru's humble off-road roots, it will likely require a mechanical coupling.

Power-wise, the Scooby will benefit greatly. The current naturally-aspirated 2.5-liter four-pot only produced 182 hp and 176 lb-ft of torque. The RAV4 PHEV's combined power output is rated at 302 hp, and it has an EPA-estimated fuel consumption of 94 MPGe.

To us, this seems like the logical route. Subaru will keep its platform and AWD system to retain that essential Scooby DNA, but the benefits of switching over to Toyota power are too good to ignore.
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Old 10-08-2021, 03:20 PM   #2
JustyWRC
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To be clear, it will still have the Boxer engine. The current Crosstrek Plug-in runs the Atkinson cycle motor. Will it be the same engine? Or a newer version?
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Old 10-09-2021, 12:28 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
To be clear, it will still have the Boxer engine. The current Crosstrek Plug-in runs the Atkinson cycle motor. Will it be the same engine? Or a newer version?
Will be new 1.8 dit Japanese. Not Miller cycle but in lean condition it runs on lambda 2
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Old 10-09-2021, 09:10 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by Goempie View Post
Will be new 1.8 dit Japanese....



In USDM? I'd be surprised
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Old 10-10-2021, 11:07 AM   #5
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Hmmm, i wonder if it will use the planatary CVT hybrid setup?

If so that would be a huge improvement, no more belt style CVT.
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Old 10-11-2021, 12:00 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by wrxsubaru View Post
Hmmm, i wonder if it will use the planatary CVT hybrid setup?

If so that would be a huge improvement, no more belt style CVT.



Considering the LCVT doesn't have a belt....
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Old 10-11-2021, 09:28 AM   #7
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Hopefully this has a more powerful engine than the Crosstrek PHEV for around town (once the battery depletes). The engine sounds terrible and is anemic if you need any extra power. At highway speeds it is pretty good (very slow to change lanes, but it doesn't appear to be struggling while cruising).
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Old 10-11-2021, 02:22 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
To be clear, it will still have the Boxer engine. The current Crosstrek Plug-in runs the Atkinson cycle motor. Will it be the same engine? Or a newer version?
Are you sure it's a Subaru boxer? That is a shame. Subaru with it's archaic boxer inside the frame-rails architecture is just so short sighted. This thing will be a NOx pump and be the standard Subaru no-show on the world market. The lean-burn tuning they are using for mpg is only acceptable here in the states for now. This is just short sighted.

Don't give me the Subaru is a small company BS. They used to be know for engineering. Just engineer the piss out of it, solve the problem and move on. Kicking the CVT and emissions problems down the road is not the answer.

Disappointing to hear this.

Peace,

Greg
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Old 10-11-2021, 06:25 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by b4wantab View Post
Are you sure it's a Subaru boxer? That is a shame. Subaru with it's archaic boxer inside the frame-rails architecture is just so short sighted. This thing will be a NOx pump and be the standard Subaru no-show on the world market. The lean-burn tuning they are using for mpg is only acceptable here in the states for now. This is just short sighted.

Don't give me the Subaru is a small company BS. They used to be know for engineering. Just engineer the piss out of it, solve the problem and move on. Kicking the CVT and emissions problems down the road is not the answer.

Disappointing to hear this.

Peace,

Greg

I didn't even realize how I worded that. It sounds like I said that knowing some insider info. I apologize. I guess anything can happen; but, I seriously doubt in a core Subaru model, they will utilize anything other than a Boxer for the foreseeable future. Subaru being "small", I'll only say when it comes to bringing something to market. They are not bringing anything to market before anyone else because their "smallness" doesn't have the resources to take on the larger companies. Now, over the last several years, I learned a bit more where their "profits" go and wish it could be redirected to fix many of the issues they have. However, I also believe after learning where a lot of that money goes, that IF they were to do that, I think that would hurt them far worst than what they are dealing with now.

Why do they have such an issue with the Boxer? With 50+ years experience with it? That, I'd surely like to know as well. They do seem very confident in the future though.....
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Old 10-12-2021, 07:22 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JustyWRC View Post
Now, over the last several years, I learned a bit more where their "profits" go and wish it could be redirected to fix many of the issues they have. However, I also believe after learning where a lot of that money goes, that IF they were to do that, I think that would hurt them far worst than what they are dealing with now.

Why do they have such an issue with the Boxer? With 50+ years experience with it? That, I'd surely like to know as well. They do seem very confident in the future though.....
How could fixing known problems/issues not help their future? Why cut the corners so drastically to begin with?

Subaru is limited with it's stroke and head size because of the frame rails. It is causing emission problems everywhere but here in the states. It is only a matter of time before we catch up. I hate to see them not addressing it head on.

Peace,

greg
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Old 10-12-2021, 09:22 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by b4wantab View Post
Subaru is limited with it's stroke and head size because of the frame rails. It is causing emission problems everywhere but here in the states. It is only a matter of time before we catch up. I hate to see them not addressing it head on.
I wonder if the extra torque from the electric motors could allow for the engines to be downsized (reduced bore) and retain the same stroke? Thereby allowing it to run cleaner.
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Old 10-12-2021, 02:21 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DougNuts View Post
I wonder if the extra torque from the electric motors could allow for the engines to be downsized (reduced bore) and retain the same stroke? Thereby allowing it to run cleaner.
Maybe, but i think the end game is just no gas engine.

If you look at Toyota's offering they still offering a 2.5 liter engine with their hybrid setup.
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