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Old 02-18-2016, 12:15 AM   #26
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Sorry for the lack of clarity. Yes the ats 4 pots
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Old 02-18-2016, 01:11 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JarHarms View Post
STI front Brembo caliper (2) 40mm and (2) 46mm pistons. 46mm pistons on the top (nearest bleeder) I am pretty sure.
BRZ front 2pot slider (2) 40mm pistons.
Yes, smaller pistons "lead" because the pad will get wedged in slightly from the rotor.

Unless the BRZ calipers are different from all the other 2-pots on the wrx etc, I think the pistons are 43mm. The 40mm pistons are in the FHI 4-pot.
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Old 02-18-2016, 05:01 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamal View Post
Yes, smaller pistons "lead" because the pad will get wedged in slightly from the rotor.



Unless the BRZ calipers are different from all the other 2-pots on the wrx etc, I think the pistons are 43mm. The 40mm pistons are in the FHI 4-pot.

Thanks for the clarity of staggered piston sizes. That make sense.

I did a pretty crude lookup and have not handled BRZ calipers. So you're probably correct there.
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Old 02-18-2016, 06:25 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WRX boarder View Post
Sorry for the lack of clarity. Yes the ats 4 pots
Let me know how this goes. I have a 13 WRX and really interested to see what they are like and how they feel and work.

Thanks!
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Old 02-18-2016, 07:47 PM   #30
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will this bracket allow the zo6 corvette calipers that innovative tune use in their package fit as well
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Old 02-19-2016, 12:49 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jamal View Post
It would be important to know the piston sizes for those calipers. If they are wrong it could completely ruin brake feel and bias and maybe make the ebd system not work properly.
That's why you buy an engineered kit that has been tested. This is how it should be done:

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticl...-Baseline.aspx

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticl...g-it-Done.aspx
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Old 02-29-2016, 08:13 AM   #32
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Any updates on this?
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Old 02-29-2016, 04:47 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vicious_fishes View Post
this.

though the cheapest big brake upgrade is the LGT brakes, followed by the Z32 calipers with kns adapters/LGT rotors.
A great bang for the buck!

3.6R brakes are the same as LGT brakes (2010-2014)
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Old 03-01-2016, 12:33 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vicious_fishes View Post
that's good if true - just need to know the position (so leverage) of the pistons now.
The kit uses STI rotors, and the ATS calipers use the same FMSI D1001 shape, so the effective rotor diameter is the same as the STI.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JarHarms View Post
Interesting. I'm guessing from their description they are using the ATS-V rear 4pot calipers with this mount design.
Which description are you looking at? From the link that started this thread, "This big brake bracket kit allows you to install 2015 Cadillac ATS 4 piston Brembo calipers ...". There is no 2015 ATS-V, so that doesn't seem like a good guess.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JarHarms View Post
As far as I could find for piston sizes:
ATS non-V front 4pot fixed Brembo (4) 42mm pistons.
ATS non-V rear 1pot slider (1) 43mm piston.
ATS-V front 6pot fixed Brembo (2) 30mm, (2) 34mm, (2) 38mm pistons.
ATS-V rear 4pot fixed Brembo (4) 30mm pistons.
Where were you able to find this info? I haven't seen much tech on the ATS or ATS-V setups on the Cadillac forums. I'm pretty sure the ATS-V rear caliper is the same as the 4-pot rear caliper that GM/Cadillac has used elsewhere (CTS-V, STS-V, Camaro, etc), in which case it has 28/32mm staggered pistons. Interesting that the ATS 4-pot front caliper does not use staggered pistons, as the other 4-pot fronts that GM has done (again, CTS-V, STS-V, Camaro, etc) are staggered.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JarHarms View Post
If my maths still holds up (per caliper):
STI 40/46 = 23235.21 mm2
FHI 40/40 = 20106.19 mm2
BRZ 40/40 slider = 5026.54 mm2
ATS-V 30/30 = 11309.73 mm2
ATS 42/42 = 22167.07 mm2
Not sure what you're calculating there, but it's not pi*r^2. Anyway, looks like the ATS Brembos would have ~5% less forward bias than the STI Brembos. That's a good thing for the target audience, methinks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JarHarms View Post
Not sure how those would exactly compare between each other. Staggered pistons -vs- not staggered. Total surface area difference and what not. Seems like the ATS non-V front caliper is a better match, not sure if it mounts up the same or not. I'm betting their kit has little to none actual braking testing involved at this point. It is more or less a way to bolt up relatively larger and fancy looking fixed 4pot calipers...on the super cheap.
In the end they would have the same limitations as STI Brembos so I expect this is fine for most people installing them for looks. For anyone focused on any braking advantage.....they are looking at entirely different (and more spendy) brake options.
I think the numbers work out close enough that we can safely say you'd get STI Brembo-like performance for a heckuva lot less money, which sounds pretty good to me. The staggered vs. non-staggered pistons would theoretically give the STI calipers a bit of an advantage in hard use. With that said, I haven't had any issue with pad taper on my non-staggered FHI 4-pots (whereas my old 2-pot sliders would taper like a sonuvabitch), so it may not really be that big a difference.

I'm not sure what you mean by "anyone focused on any braking advantage". Are you saying that you don't think this setup would be an improvement over the typical WRX brakes with 2-pot sliding calipers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by WRX boarder View Post
I went ahead and ordered everything today. All told I'm into it for about 630 which got me two: calipers, ss brake lines, pads, pin kit, rotors and mounting brackets. For this price I was only finding beat up STI calipers in various states of load likely needing rebuild/paint and would still need rotors and various small parts. I'm hoping for better pedal feel and heat handling from this kit for light track duty and that I can fit it with my stock 17s. I'll report back after I finish install and get some miles on it
Any progress? Have you received the parts?
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Old 03-01-2016, 01:58 PM   #35
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Ah shoot. You are correct my circle area calculations are wrong. Although it is painfully obvious what went wrong. I will make corrections to them later on.
2015-2016 and I should catch that? I don't own one, don't care to, and also a quick search found Cadillac/GM/Camero forums to be severely lacking in this info as well. If I recall you have (or do) own a Cadillac-V.....so it would make sense that you have more exposure.

The thread started out as hey look at this low cost option. It was a bit lacking in details, but that makes sense considering it is a new-ish concept. I was curious enough to start thinking about it and my natural tendency is to ask questions and find things to compare against.
I agree, this kit is probably a viable and low cost option to STI application Brembos. Will there be some aspect of braking advantage, probably so. As with the majority of those who swap in STI Brembos it's for the looks more often than any performance advantage. Choosing different pads would serve most better.
Let's not kid ourselves here. It's 95% for the look. I bet very few would notice or realistically be able to comment on the change.......beyond placebo effect.

Indeed I was not very specific. A strictly-track user is not looking at these types of Brembo calipers whether they are Cadillac or STI application. Note this kit is not at all claiming anything like that.
Don't get me wrong. I hope these work out well. Having more options is always better.



Quote:
Originally Posted by WRX boarder View Post
Sorry for the lack of clarity. Yes the ats 4 pots
If you could measure the pistons in your calipers that would be nice to confirm.

Last edited by JarHarms; 03-01-2016 at 02:07 PM.
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Old 03-01-2016, 03:45 PM   #36
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The ATS calipers from everything I have been able to find are staggered 42/40. I don't have anything accurate enough to measure such a small difference. One piston set is labeled 40. I'm planning to get these installed soon but am still waiting on my tires to come in
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Old 03-01-2016, 05:38 PM   #37
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iirc lgt are 42/42 and brembo are something like 42/46mm, so that's quite a nice bias improvement. how heavy is the caliper?
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Old 03-01-2016, 07:15 PM   #38
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Just pulled up brake math spreadsheet:

42.8 for all the 2-pots (lgt, wrx, rs, etc).
40.4 for fhi 4-pots
46/40 for brembos

I think legacy777 got his info out of the FSMs. Centric catalog just says 43mm, which is probably just rounded up.

From what I have found the ats caliper has 42mm pistons, all the same size. Also, uses the same pad as the sti.

Last edited by jamal; 03-01-2016 at 07:23 PM.
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Old 03-02-2016, 10:44 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sammythebugeye View Post
some stolen pics off FB, getting more tempting everyday to rack up the credit card with these bad boys
So looking at that bracket - is the caliper cocked a bit or does the Cadillac caliper come like that with the bolt hole not on a constant radius?
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Old 03-02-2016, 10:46 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KNS Brakes View Post
So looking at that bracket - is the caliper cocked a bit or does the Cadillac caliper come like that with the bolt hole not on a constant radius?
More issues to worry about... Do you folks at KNS do any testing, such as in the link below?

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticl...-Baseline.aspx
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Old 03-02-2016, 11:17 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by car_freak85 View Post
More issues to worry about... Do you folks at KNS do any testing, such as in the link below?

http://www.motoiq.com/MagazineArticl...-Baseline.aspx
It's $$ and more so logistically quite hard to test brakes. Even big manufacturer's can't do much. That's just the way it is.

For the products we make we made careful calculations and several prototype fits and local installs but that only proves so much. Our brackets did not stray far from proven parts either so we had reasonable confidence.

We did put our front Corvette kit on our C5Z track car and we have run that car hard with Hoosiers at many track days. It's still going fine and we have worn out several sets of pads and rotors. That kit flat out works.

We looked at the older CTS-V 4 pot as an STi Brembo alternative but discarded the idea due to the non-symmetrical bracket.

We've had a few rust/corrosion/stripped thread issues but no failures .....and there is one particularly well known auto-crossing NASIOC'er who should never touch a wrench again.....!



What we do know after 10+ years doing Subaru brakes is that hard use of any Subaru eventually leads to this. The upgrade path we see for this is pretty clear.

OEM type stuff

4 pots or LGT brakes (GD/GR cars)
STi Brembo's

Real BBK's

Stoptech, Brembo, Essex designed AP kits.


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Old 03-23-2016, 10:22 AM   #42
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I am doing this now. Do to being a cheap ass, I hunted deals and found one on Ebay NIB for $80 and another on Amazon for $100. I took them over to a friends house on his 2011 STi to compare external sizes and they look very close if not a touch thinner which is a good thing. I plan on doing a writeup on them with full measurements, install photos, etc.

I did a lot of research on the math of the piston sizes, brake torque vs STi Brembos, FHI 4 pots, and found them to be 5-7% less brake torque than an STi brembo which should work well with my H6 upgrade.

One neat thing I found was they use steel inserts in the mounting holes so no more helicoiled thread holes.

But here are a couple of pictures and one of the kit. The kit looks very well made and even includes a tap for one of the holes on the knuckle. I am painting them and waiting on pads so hopefully getting them done in the next week or so.

Here is the kit. The spacers go under the rotor I assume for spacing the rotor to the caliper.


Here are a couple of pictures compared to an STi Brembo.

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Old 03-23-2016, 10:42 AM   #43
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nice keep us posted.
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Old 03-25-2016, 04:51 AM   #44
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how heavy are they vs the brembo caliper?
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Old 03-25-2016, 05:49 PM   #45
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They seem pretty light for the size. I would say close to the STi Brembos. I will try to weigh them.
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Old 03-27-2016, 08:39 PM   #46
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Any Updates?
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Old 04-04-2016, 07:23 AM   #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by T_Racer69 View Post
They seem pretty light for the size. I would say close to the STi Brembos. I will try to weigh them.
Have you had a chance to weigh them yet mate?
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Old 04-11-2016, 08:14 PM   #48
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For anyone interested, Amazon has both calipers on sale for $83 and $89 a piece. Add the pin kit required and my total came to less than $200 for a set of brand new calipers with free Prime shipping
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Old 04-11-2016, 09:12 PM   #49
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thats a deal
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Old 04-13-2016, 07:03 AM   #50
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I bought some too
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