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Old 02-27-2021, 08:53 PM   #1
zmaster
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Exclamation Passenger wheel catching into sharp right turn

Peeps,
Carrying any speed into a roundabout (rotaries, circle turns) makes the right passenger wheel almost feel likes its locking up...this never used to happen before. Only noticed it when going in hard right turns, not loaded left turns.

I jacked up the right front and tried to see if it had play in it, and compared it to the left front. Both felt same amount of play.

What could it be?


History:
- Just got a rebuilt transmission put in, blown center diff replaced.
- New steering rack (STi steering rack)
- New engine seals (oil leak)


2011 Subaru WRX
Miles: 115,578
Tires: Blizzak WS90's Snow Tires

Thank you to the wonderful collective here for answers.
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Old 02-28-2021, 11:19 AM   #2
zmaster
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bump!
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Old 02-28-2021, 11:58 AM   #3
samb
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Have you been able to get under there yet? Any obvious fluid leaks or damage would be my first step.
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Old 02-28-2021, 09:29 PM   #4
zmaster
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Default Went under

I did go under and check if any of the sway bar links were loose or any fluid leads present.. couldnt find anything.

scared to drive the car
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Old 03-01-2021, 01:39 AM   #5
lukethedork
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Sounds like it could be wheel bearings / brakes, or CV joints.
Otherwise bushing / strut related.
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Old 03-01-2021, 05:17 PM   #6
zmaster
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What would be front diff symptoms?
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Old 03-01-2021, 05:43 PM   #7
REX_WGN
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Are your endlinks perpendicular to the ground? With some aftermarket endlinks, when you jack up the front, the endlinks can pivot down. When you turn the wheel, they can scrape the inside of your wheels.
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Old 03-02-2021, 09:36 AM   #8
zmaster
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Checked endlinks ..they are pointed up...away from the ground.

Looked at drive train design and thinking maybe the following:
- CV joint
- CV Axel
- Wheel Bearing
- Front Differential

Thoughts?
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Old 03-02-2021, 11:31 AM   #9
REX_WGN
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Can you post a video? Showing the sound
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Old 03-02-2021, 11:50 AM   #10
zmaster
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@kenliu84 >
- The challenge is that I dont hear a sound... I can feel it
- Situation:
- Go into a round about turn (right first and go around and exit straight)
- That first hard right you made and load the outer wheel (passenger side) is what locks up the wheel
- Now just for sh#*t and giggles, I did try a hard left turn (loading the drivers side wheel), and didn't experience a locking of the wheel
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Old 03-02-2021, 01:42 PM   #11
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sorry man, it's tough to say. got to be frustrating though.
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Old 03-02-2021, 02:26 PM   #12
T-37
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When you say carrying any speed what are we talking about? Driving like a normal person, or hooning around? When you say locking the wheel, what is happening here? the car suddenly slows? the tire squeals? you feel a catch in the steering or the steering feel changes? Could you just be overloading that tire by cornering too aggressively? (Blizzaks aren't the greatest for dry traction, but not bad for a snow tire)

Quote:
Originally Posted by lukethedork View Post
Sounds like it could be wheel bearings / brakes, or CV joints.
Otherwise bushing / strut related.
That would be where I'd start looking.

Quote:
Originally Posted by zmaster View Post
What would be front diff symptoms?
The front diff is open in the 5MT WRXs, so outside of a carrier bearing failing or binding due to improper preload, I wouldn't suspect the front diff.


Don't these cars have VDC? Could it be cutting in?
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Old 03-03-2021, 07:35 AM   #13
Norm Peterson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zmaster View Post
Carrying any speed into a roundabout (rotaries, circle turns) makes the right passenger wheel almost feel likes its locking up...this never used to happen before. Only noticed it when going in hard right turns, not loaded left turns.
Quote:
Originally Posted by zmaster View Post
- Go into a round about turn (right first and go around and exit straight)
- That first hard right you made and load the outer wheel (passenger side) is what locks up the wheel
- Now just for sh#*t and giggles, I did try a hard left turn (loading the drivers side wheel), and didn't experience a locking of the wheel
I'm confused. Is this a right hand drive car? In Denver/Rocky Mountain (your listed location/region), but worded a bit like I'd expect from a UK member?

Makes a difference - whether we're talking about loading or unloading the side in question.


Norm
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Old 03-03-2021, 08:50 AM   #14
zmaster
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Gents,
Finally took her in and had her looked at by a Subie Specialist.
Apparently its my Front diff and Center diff actually working together and given the tires i'm running.

I was driving it like a hoon..going into a roundabout hard, lifting and right at the apex, adding throttle...

Norm > Yes, I live in Denver but was educated by some wonderful brits in India. So, thus the wording like a UK member. The car is LHD.
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Old 03-03-2021, 07:58 PM   #15
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My 2013 WRX is doing the same thing, except it happens on left and right turns. Mine also has a 2015 STi rack.

So far, the most I've been able to determine is that the VDC is actuating the brakes- but I haven't yet figured out why. If you turn off traction control, I'd bet the farm your problem went away.

My leading theory revolves around the STi rack. The VDC uses various sensor inputs (yaw/ lateral acceleration, steering angle, wheel speed) to make sure the car is not losing control. Since the ratio is now tighter, the same turn now requires less steering angle input. When the car sees a lot of lateral acceleration (like when you enter a turn) but the steering angle is relatively low, the VDC thinks there is a problem and it intervenes. THIS IS JUST A THEORY. If this ends up being true, I don't know how to correct it, other than swapping back to a stock rack. Maybe an Arduino to manipulate the signal??

My other theory is that the yaw sensor (under the console) somehow got bumped or misaligned. It's easy enough to check, but I haven't had the time yet. I definitely need to spend some solid time with the scan tool to figure this one out. I'm VERY interested in seeing what your dealer comes up with.
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Old 03-03-2021, 09:24 PM   #16
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IIRC from reading the various 15+ STI rack threads, some of the GR WRX guys mentioned this as well.
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Old 03-04-2021, 07:21 AM   #17
Norm Peterson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zmaster View Post
The car is LHD.
OK, that means that the passenger side of the car is moving up in a right turn, which unloads the wheels/tires on that side.

That in turn would increase the likelihood of momentary brake-caused locking if the VDC started to get interested in the proceedings. Which it might if it thinks the car is understeering and wants to help tighten your line.


I think I've felt a somewhat less intrusive form of that on both the WRX we have now and the 2010 LGT we had before it. Not all the way to locking, but there was a distinct feeling of the brakes on at least one corner of the car dragging. Fair amount of lat-g going on, and I was trying to squeeze into the throttle. Found a button that fixes that . . . for one key cycle anyway.


Norm
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Old 03-04-2021, 05:23 PM   #18
zmaster
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Captain Slow !!!
- This working hypothesis make sense to me
- I am going to go test out here shortly when it stop raining in the same roundabout that gives me issues
- ie. turn off traction control and take the roundabout the same way to see if it actuates the brake

In ALL Honesty > I have always been AFRAID to turn off the traction control on any car after a wonderful traction control incident involving spinning my brothers BMW 5 series 4x on I-70, Rain, and the quick to water plain roads of Houston, TX.

Will update you all here shortly once I go about the experiment.

Last edited by zmaster; 03-04-2021 at 05:23 PM. Reason: Need to add follow up next steps
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Old 03-05-2021, 07:24 AM   #19
Norm Peterson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zmaster View Post
In ALL Honesty > I have always been AFRAID to turn off the traction control on any car after a wonderful traction control incident involving spinning my brothers BMW 5 series 4x on I-70, Rain, and the quick to water plain roads of Houston, TX.
Better throttle modulation/control is your friend. At least your WRX is AWD, which is generally more tolerant of "excessive" throttle than RWD.

Unfortunately, TC systems are also quite good at not letting people learn that fine throttle control is possible without their help.


Quote:
Will update you all here shortly once I go about the experiment.
I'll be interested to hear how it turns out.


Norm
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Old 03-05-2021, 08:40 PM   #20
zmaster
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@Captain Slowbaru:
- You are absolutely correct in your assessment !!!
- I turned Traction control off and went through the same round about in the same direction, right passenger brake caliper did NOT kick in as usual
- Turned it around completely and approached the same turn with Traction control ON, right passenger brake caliper DID kick in

So, question whats the permanent solution other than driving with Traction Control OFF?
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Old 03-06-2021, 08:20 AM   #21
Norm Peterson
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zmaster View Post
So, question whats the permanent solution other than driving with Traction Control OFF?
Per this thread ( https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho....php?t=2116527 ) you can't turn off TC in a 2011 WRX without losing the whole VDC system.

I see three possibilities here . . . your choice to make, not mine to tell you which

leave TC on, keep driving the same way, and put up with this behavior
turn TC off
leave TC on and dial your driving back a bit.


Keep in mind that in the event of an ABS fault (such as a dead wheel sensor or loss of electrical continuity in its wire), the ABS will go inop and take TC and VDC down with it. This is one of the reasons you shouldn't be relying on TC to keep things under control in normal driving. Finding yourself up the name of some recent TV show or other without a paddle comes to mind.


Norm
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Old 03-07-2021, 01:44 PM   #22
CaptainSlowbaru
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I just did extensive research, and not only is this a well-documented issue, but there is now a solution. The bad news is it's a complex electrical device that has to be built (well beyond my expertise), and no one seems to be selling one.

Here is the link.
At the bottom of that first post is a link to a very detailed PDF instruction for building an SAS Scaler.

If someone can build me one, I will pay. I salvaged my STi rack from the scrap dumpster, replaced the $5 pinion shaft seal (the one that always leaks), and put it in. Realistically, I saved hundreds of dollars, so I'm very willing to put some of that towards this device.
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