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Old 06-03-2020, 01:10 AM   #401
SatinWhitePearl
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Originally Posted by Doughdreads View Post
NighthawkSTI how are you comparing this UEL to axleback/muffler deletes? People install muffler deletes because they aren't that expensive, are easy to install, and give their car a different sound without affecting performance or needing a tune. Sure, buy this $800 uel header that is going to be a pain to install, and then require a tune. In the end, you're spending 1k or more for an aftermarket part that struggles to keep up with the stock header. "AlL fOr DaT rUmBlE bRo". Get real. Most people want aftermarket parts to outperform their OEM counterparts. All you are doing is making unsubstantiated claims.

In the comments, the OP says it made 300WHP before the install and 298WHP after with boost coming on 500rpm later. So, the stock header makes more power and faster boost. That guy just spent 1k+ to make his car slower but sound different when he could have bought an aftermarket ELH for about the same price and had an increase in HP and boost response... The Tomei UEL header is cleary for clout chasers.
The bottom line is the header lost power, increased lag and only managed to make the car sound, subjectively, worse. Again, to WRX owners, it’s better to just have bought an STi to start than to mod a WRX to look and or sound like an STi.

I think that puts the “this is a sound mod” debate to bed. Thank you for posting!
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Old 06-03-2020, 09:56 AM   #402
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Originally Posted by NighthawkSTI View Post
a 2 horsepower difference and 500 RPM curve shift ??? LOL....in other words there is no difference(and we know nothing about how the tune was changed), this just proves my point. At that end of the day he still has a header that will support way WAY more power for any other build he has planned for his engine and it sounds great. Win Win.
That is against the STOCK header. There are plenty of 350-400WHP builds that still run the stock header. You keep saying that "it will support WAY more power" but anyone that wants to make power on this platform is going with ELH's that are proven to actually perform better and take advantage of the twin-scroll. Stop comparing the FA20 to the EJ and BRZ FA. The video proves that the Tomei can't keep up with the stock header. It proves that this is a noisemaker.

It is not a win-win by any means. You win the rumble and lose power and efficiency, everyone has been saying that since day 1.
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Old 06-03-2020, 11:18 AM   #403
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Originally Posted by NighthawkSTI View Post
Boy you guys are getting really butt hurt by the return of the rumble to the FA Turbo in the aftermarket.
If anything, it's sadness that people are going to be sucked into buying this thing.

Seriously, anybody who bought a 2015-up WRX wanting the STI's traditional Subie rumble I've got news for ya . . . you bought the wrong car. The more observant people among us will notice that there goes another I-wish-I-was-an-Sti. The less observant will only hear another flat-four rattle. Deeper and louder than the VWs of old, but a less than pleasant rattle-y sound nonetheless.


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Old 06-03-2020, 12:48 PM   #404
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Can't wait for everyone to be mad when the FA24DIT shows up in the new STI with a ELH and direct injection.

Oh wait it already has in the Acsent, its making 500whp with bolt ons already.
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Old 06-03-2020, 01:20 PM   #405
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Originally Posted by gn4rwhals View Post
Can't wait for everyone to be mad when the FA24DIT shows up in the new STI with a ELH and direct injection.

Oh wait it already has in the Acsent, its making 500whp with bolt ons already.
I am really hoping for this!

I would probably wait until the 3rd or 4th model year, which allows plenty of time for getting rid of the bugs and for the aftermarket to experiment and grow.

By then I should be just about paid off the WRX, assuming I don't start building it past whatever the bolt-on flex route lands me next month...
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Old 06-03-2020, 02:09 PM   #406
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Originally Posted by SatinWhitePearl View Post
The bottom line is the header lost power, increased lag and only managed to make the car sound, subjectively, worse. Again, to WRX owners, itís better to just have bought an STi to start than to mod a WRX to look and or sound like an STi.

I think that puts the ďthis is a sound modĒ debate to bed. Thank you for posting!
So where's the dyno plot? Same dyno same day?
"2hp" difference means nothing without context.



Still waiting for a comparison dyno plot... will it ever happen. sigh.
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Old 06-03-2020, 02:19 PM   #407
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So where's the dyno plot? Same dyno same day?
"2hp" difference means nothing without context.

Still waiting for a comparison dyno plot... will it ever happen. sigh.

We're going off of the comments of the owner of the WRX, with his mod list, advising that he lost 2whp and boost came on 500 rpms later. Even if the power loss wasn't there, it definitely didn't make power and turbo lag was 'increased'.

No dyno plot was provided and do you honestly think someone is going to volunteer to look like an idiot after spending at least a grand?

Every single one of these WRXs running these headers, on YouTube, discuss sound and this last dude was the only one to address the performance side of it.

There's 0 bullying, 0 telling anyone what to do with their car - it's just words from an owner of a WRX who stated he 'lost power' and that turbo lag was increased - after installing this exact header.

So, we've got 1 owner proving this header makes a WRX 'slower' so it can SOUND 'faster'.
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Old 06-03-2020, 02:20 PM   #408
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Originally Posted by F1EA View Post
So where's the dyno plot? Same dyno same day?
"2hp" difference means nothing without context.


Still waiting for a comparison dyno plot... will it ever happen. sigh.
I don't think anybody cares!! whomever is buying is going for the sound and whomever is actually going for performance is buying something else.... don't hold your breath!
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Old 06-03-2020, 02:54 PM   #409
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Originally Posted by SatinWhitePearl View Post
We're going off of the comments of the owner of the WRX, with his mod list, advising that he lost 2whp and boost came on 500 rpms later. Even if the power loss wasn't there, it definitely didn't make power and turbo lag was 'increased'.

No dyno plot was provided and do you honestly think someone is going to volunteer to look like an idiot after spending at least a grand?

Every single one of these WRXs running these headers, on YouTube, discuss sound and this last dude was the only one to address the performance side of it.

There's 0 bullying, 0 telling anyone what to do with their car - it's just words from an owner of a WRX who stated he 'lost power' and that turbo lag was increased - after installing this exact header.

So, we've got 1 owner proving this header makes a WRX 'slower' so it can SOUND 'faster'.
Yeah he doesn't care. lol

But... no, he's not "proved" the header makes the WRX 'slower'. Unless you refer to "proof" as a Youtube comment about 2hp. In that case, then yes... carry on.
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Old 06-03-2020, 02:59 PM   #410
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I don't think anybody cares!! whomever is buying is going for the sound and whomever is actually going for performance is buying something else.... don't hold your breath!
Maybe. But that's ok too.

People can go for whatever they want.
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Old 06-03-2020, 03:40 PM   #411
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Not really. The Twin scroll housing doesnt know what kind of header its bolted to. The unequal length pulses are still going to be "utilized" by the varied sizes of the "plenums" in the turbo housing such that an UELH is going to work better on an engine with a twin scroll relative to a traditional single plenum turbo. ELH still have the pressure drop behind each pulse...its the design of the twin scroll sizing in that helps the responsiveness of those engines equipped with a twin scroll turbo. An UELH isnt going to alter the flow of the pulses after they actually enter the scrolls of the turbo to spool it.



The Tomei header for the FA2.0's have an available specific reflash for the ECU that helps torque over the stock ELH. Also with other mods and respective tuning the UELH will support a TON of horsepower regardless of the scavenging advantages of the ELH. If a tuner cant do it.....run....run fast as fast as you can...and find a reputable tuner.



Eh...again the UELH will be more responsive on a twin scroll engine than it would on a single scroll because its the dual plenums of the twin scroll that accelerate and direct the pulses from the header collector. ELH still has pressure drops behind each pulse...its when they enter the turbo scrolls that pulses are split....same thing would happen with an UELH. A tuner could exploit this even more relative to each header design and or build on other engine mods that make the the header design less dramatic relative to the power curve being sought after. An UELH will support a TON...a TON of power on a twin scroll turbo.

The stock manifold ports for each side of the housing are a different size, the slightly smaller one has increased velocity allowing better response and spool. This manifold wonít be as responsive as the stock manifold and it wonít spool as fast, that is a FACT, the larger ports are going to slow down velocity. This header would be fine for a larger turbo, but on the tiny stock turbo you are not going to see any gains considering the stock manifold is already capable of maxing the stock turbo out.



Hereís proof of a stock manifold, FBO vehicle putting down 340 whp on 93 octane.... the same car with the killer b EWG manifold made 350 whp on 93 octane.... Iíd like to see the tomei try to make those numbers while maintaining that level of low end torque. Not gonna happen.
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Old 06-03-2020, 04:17 PM   #412
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LMAO at this butt hurt fest LOL......a WHOPPING 2 horsepower difference, is basically NO difference from going from the relatively more efficient ELH to a tomei UEL......500 RPM spool difference is also relatively insignificant. All the butt hurt ELH proponents that are angry that the UELH is making a huge come back in the Subaru community, with the BRZ, and the WRX owners flocking to the tomei!!!! ITs hilarious how much this is bothering people, especially the "engineers" that were touting how the header wouldnt work with the twin scroll, and make it sound like going with ANY UELH over the factory (supposedly "much more efficient) cast manifold would cause a massive horsepower and torque loss and cause the engine to self destruct LMAO!!!!

TWO....yes TWO horsepower difference LMAO. This just proves that the UELH design is only minimally less efficient...its all relative....I mean you would think with the way people were comparing the 180 bends..that were so so horrible to flow....and the exhaust pulses backing up in the collector....oh the horror!!! The horror of a T W O horsepower loss.

Bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha !!!!!

BTW that wouldnt make the car "slower" at all. And we dont know what type of changes were made to the timing fueling and boost tables relative to the tune on the stock header on this car. That WHOPPING market crashing TWO horsepower(LOL), could be from so many other metrics in the tune, aside from just the header design alone.

Its a win win either way....car sounds better, has a beautifully manufactured header..the stock header looks like ca ca...and sounds like ca ca....tomei looks fantastic...sounds fantastic and even with a(relatively), less efficient design showed only a supposed TWO......TWO horsepower difference. LOL That's basically no difference. Just proves ELH doesnt have any huge advantange over the UELH....that at best its a minimally relative difference.

Better sound, better looks, equal performance Win Win Win!!!

Probably tuned conservatively as well I bet..... Ahhhhh its a great day.
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Old 06-03-2020, 04:29 PM   #413
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The stock manifold ports for each side of the housing are a different size, the slightly smaller one has increased velocity allowing better response and spool. This manifold won’t be as responsive as the stock manifold and it won’t spool as fast, that is a FACT, the larger ports are going to slow down velocity. This header would be fine for a larger turbo, but on the tiny stock turbo you are not going to see any gains considering the stock manifold is already capable of maxing the stock turbo out.



Here’s proof of a stock manifold, FBO vehicle putting down 340 whp on 93 octane.... the same car with the killer b EWG manifold made 350 whp on 93 octane.... I’d like to see the tomei try to make those numbers while maintaining that level of low end torque. Not gonna happen.
wow who would ever imagine a WRX with "every bolt on possible" would make great power numbers on 93 and race gas tunes. Thanks for the info captain obvious LMAO!

No one can say what the tomei would make on a full bolt on FA, douobtful it would hurt much at all.....could be down 2 horsepower or up 2 horsepower LOL....but its a pretty safe bet that the tomei header would make a bigger difference over the stock cast manifold, on an engine with every bolt on possible than it would from just swapping the stock ELH for it on a stock engine. Its also safe to assume that a performance ELH will make biiger difference over the stock ELH on a full bolt on FA, and make more torque than a performance UELH on that set up...but it most likely wouldnt be much between the 2 when each was tuned for.

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Old 06-03-2020, 04:43 PM   #414
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Originally Posted by NighthawkSTI View Post
LMAO at this butt hurt fest LOL......a WHOPPING 2 horsepower difference, is basically NO difference from going from the relatively more efficient ELH to a tomei UEL......500 RPM spool difference is also relatively insignificant. All the butt hurt ELH proponents that are angry that the UELH is making a huge come back in the Subaru community, with the BRZ, and the WRX owners flocking to the tomei!!!! ITs hilarious how much this is bothering people, especially the "engineers" that were touting how the header wouldnt work with the twin scroll, and make it sound like going with ANY UELH over the factory (supposedly "much more efficient) cast manifold would cause a massive horsepower and torque loss and cause the engine to self destruct LMAO!!!!

TWO....yes TWO horsepower difference LMAO. This just proves that the UELH design is only minimally less efficient...its all relative....I mean you would think with the way people were comparing the 180 bends..that were so so horrible to flow....and the exhaust pulses backing up in the collector....oh the horror!!! The horror of a T W O horsepower loss.

Bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha !!!!!

BTW that wouldnt make the car "slower" at all. And we dont know what type of changes were made to the timing fueling and boost tables relative to the tune on the stock header on this car. That WHOPPING market crashing TWO horsepower(LOL), could be from so many other metrics in the tune, aside from just the header design alone.

Its a win win either way....car sounds better, has a beautifully manufactured header..the stock header looks like ca ca...and sounds like ca ca....tomei looks fantastic...sounds fantastic and even with a(relatively), less efficient design showed only a supposed TWO......TWO horsepower difference. LOL That's basically no difference. Just proves ELH doesnt have any huge advantange over the UELH....that at best its a minimally relative difference.

Better sound, better looks, equal performance Win Win Win!!!

Probably tuned conservatively as well I bet..... Ahhhhh its a great day.
Sorry to bust your bubble there was no dyno plot.. nothing... this is hearsay and again.. 1k+ spend for what???? Just like the dude in the STI that wanted to so badly show me that his car was way!!!! faster with XXXXXX WHP etc.. etc.. I left him so far behind he was embarrassed that my supposed WHP was less than his and yet I was so much faster!! ##'s aren't everything (and where those numbers are generated is also subject to variances...) Please stop being so dumb NighthawkSTI... you must be a Tomei USA employee on commission cause damn you are adamant to continually proving nothing!! Cheers
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Old 06-03-2020, 04:52 PM   #415
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wow who would ever imagine a WRX with "every bolt on possible" would make great power numbers on 93 and race gas tunes. Thanks for the info captain obvious LMAO!

Letís see the tomei with full bolt ons on 93 octane make 340 whp. It wonít, it doesnít take proper advantage of the twin scroll turbine housing. You canít advance ignition timing as much, spool is slower. The STOCK manifold will though. And 500 rpm difference equates to about 2 1/2 car lengths from a 40 mph roll..... thatís SIGNIFICANTLY slower.... the rumble sounds like a angry lawn tractor. The UEL will UNDOUBTEDLY be able to make power, on a larger aftermarket turbo specifically where the larger runners and ports can be taken advantage of and you can run much higher boost. But on the stock turbo it simply wonít make any more power. For the guys going ďfull bolt onĒ without upgrading the turbo itís a pointless, expensive mod. At the price of one of these UELís Iíll switch the Killer B EWG headers and have the option to make more power everywhere in the power band...
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Old 06-03-2020, 04:56 PM   #416
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500 RPM is a pretty significant difference for a daily driven car. That 500 RPM basically throws twin-scroll benefit of quicker spool out the window. I still wish we got a dyno plot, because when boost comes on and peak numbers doesn't really tell the whole story. Also, those are some good straw-man arguments you made. Nobody ever said this would blow up your motor or cause your turbo to stop working entirely. Everyone was just saying that it is less efficient than the stock manifold... which it is.

I am interested to see how good the reliability is going to be. There are obvious concerns about cracking with UEL headers made from 304SS.

If you like the sound, go for it, but this is a performance downgrade (however minimal you may claim it to be) for just under a grand. At least catbacks don't hurt performance...
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Old 06-03-2020, 04:58 PM   #417
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Originally Posted by NighthawkSTI View Post
LMAO at this butt hurt fest LOL......a WHOPPING 2 horsepower difference, is basically NO difference from going from the relatively more efficient ELH to a tomei UEL......500 RPM spool difference is also relatively insignificant. All the butt hurt ELH proponents that are angry that the UELH is making a huge come back in the Subaru community, with the BRZ, and the WRX owners flocking to the tomei!!!! ITs hilarious how much this is bothering people, especially the "engineers" that were touting how the header wouldnt work with the twin scroll, and make it sound like going with ANY UELH over the factory (supposedly "much more efficient) cast manifold would cause a massive horsepower and torque loss and cause the engine to self destruct LMAO!!!!

TWO....yes TWO horsepower difference LMAO. This just proves that the UELH design is only minimally less efficient...its all relative....I mean you would think with the way people were comparing the 180 bends..that were so so horrible to flow....and the exhaust pulses backing up in the collector....oh the horror!!! The horror of a T W O horsepower loss.

Bwa ha ha ha ha ha ha !!!!!

BTW that wouldnt make the car "slower" at all. And we dont know what type of changes were made to the timing fueling and boost tables relative to the tune on the stock header on this car. That WHOPPING market crashing TWO horsepower(LOL), could be from so many other metrics in the tune, aside from just the header design alone.

Its a win win either way....car sounds better, has a beautifully manufactured header..the stock header looks like ca ca...and sounds like ca ca....tomei looks fantastic...sounds fantastic and even with a(relatively), less efficient design showed only a supposed TWO......TWO horsepower difference. LOL That's basically no difference. Just proves ELH doesnt have any huge advantange over the UELH....that at best its a minimally relative difference.

Better sound, better looks, equal performance Win Win Win!!!

Probably tuned conservatively as well I bet..... Ahhhhh its a great day.

I think you're glossing over yourself acknowledging that the factory header is more responsive, efficient and makes a whopping 2whp more - even if it looks ugly.

So yes, it's a great day that you finally realized what everyone has been telling you from the start - sometimes stock is better.

I will agree that Tomei's header is beautiful, that it will help you sound like the STi that WRX owners could've opted for to begin with and only marginally decrease performance for that "boxer rumble".

Congratulations, we can finally move on from this disaster of a thread.

Spark Notes: Modify your car as you see fit, but don't get your "feels" hurt when people question the logic of your "creativity".
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Old 06-03-2020, 05:12 PM   #418
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I think you're glossing over yourself acknowledging that the factory header is more responsive, efficient and makes a whopping 2whp more - even if it looks ugly.

So yes, it's a great day that you finally realized what everyone has been telling you from the start - sometimes stock is better.

I will agree that Tomei's header is beautiful, that it will help you sound like the STi that WRX owners could've opted for to begin with and only marginally decrease performance for that "boxer rumble".

Congratulations, we can finally move on from this disaster of a thread.

Spark Notes: Modify your car as you see fit, but don't get your "feels" hurt when people question the logic of your "creativity".
again....the butt hurt is so overwhelming because the pro ELH people simply dont like the "SOUND" of the UELH...that they are missing the larger picture. ELH are relatively more efficient than UELH, as I have stated several times in these threads, I have also used ELH on muscle car engines, they aren't any new cutting edge trend bolt on LOL....ELH's have been used for many decades on performace engines as a tuning tool to tailor the power curve and scavenge the cylinders better. I have already explained all this....its a wonderful day when this "relative" advantage applied to a Subaru turbo 4, is pointed out in a link, in a thread debating the pros and cons of ELH and UELH that are available for the Subaru Turbo 4's. Its just a bit tongue in cheek the way some are putting the ELH on some kind of ultimate bolt on that will make these engine indestructible or something, when the reality is that they are relatively more efficient than the UELH' , when UELH are fine for these engines.

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Originally Posted by csleeper View Post
Let’s see the tomei with full bolt ons on 93 octane make 340 whp. It won’t, it doesn’t take proper advantage of the twin scroll turbine housing.

Apparently it will make 338 LOL......ha ha ha ha ha ha!!!

But seriously see.... your making the "missing the big picture" mistake here....your trying to say that a performance UELH becomes a restriction on modded Subaru Turbo engines...that's simply not true. Big mistake my friend. False assumption and kind of a newb thing to say. Do your research... the tomei will still hold its own...it will actually be a better match on a full bolt on engine than it would on just a stock engine with a tune. If anything the tomei header is overkill on a stock 2.0....its not using anywhere near the flow its capable of such as on a fully modded engine. I agree its a mismatch on a stock engine where the stock ELH is a perfect match. All that is going to change with "every bolt on possible" though...that will move the flow advatages over the stock ELH to its favor where a fully modded engine can use the UELH performance design.

500 RPM is 2 1/3 car lengths LOL? Too many variables to say that....let alone just launching 500 RPM higher with a tomei to take advantage of the greater than stock flow. STill a win win.

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Originally Posted by Norm Peterson View Post
That two HP you're disparaging was the Tomei unequal vs the stock equal-length. Spend a grand to "upgrade" from the stock header and basically end up no better than running in place.

There's only one person throwing the "butt hurt" term around. All I can think of is "The hawk doth protest too much, methinks". Apologies to some English guy from the 16th century named Bill.


Norm
the tomei is overkill if anything for a stock replacement comparison....the stock ELH is better matched to a stock engine....simply bolting the performance designed tomei UELH where it cant take advantage of full bolt ons is what results in a 2 horsepower difference. It would be better matched with a build plan on an FA that can actually utilize the increased exhaust flow. That's pretty much universal in modding any brand engine.

Last edited by NighthawkSTI; 06-03-2020 at 05:38 PM.
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Old 06-03-2020, 05:18 PM   #419
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LMAO at this butt hurt fest LOL......a WHOPPING 2 horsepower difference, is basically NO difference from going from the relatively more efficient ELH to a tomei UEL......500 RPM spool difference is also relatively insignificant. All the butt hurt
That two HP you're disparaging was the Tomei unequal vs the stock equal-length. Spend a grand to "upgrade" from the stock header and basically end up no better than running in place.

There's only one person throwing the "butt hurt" term around. All I can think of is "The hawk doth protest too much, methinks". Apologies to some English guy from the 16th century named Bill.


Norm
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Old 06-03-2020, 05:31 PM   #420
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id take -50 whp to get rumble... to each his own
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Old 06-03-2020, 05:39 PM   #421
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2019 Honda Civic Type R

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Originally Posted by Fromrstosti View Post
id take -50 whp to get rumble... to each his own

Opt for an STi, get more power and the rumble included!
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Old 06-03-2020, 05:41 PM   #422
NighthawkSTI
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Originally Posted by Fromrstosti View Post
id take -50 whp to get rumble... to each his own
dont worry....its a zero(because we know nothing about the tune on that link) to 2 horsepower "difference" I wont even call that a "loss" LOL which means no loss. 500 RPM shift in the curve...just launch 500 RPM higher..which is equivalent sneezing on the throttle pedal LOL....its no where NEAR the massive horror that the butt hurt ELH proponents are trying to sell, that the engine would blow up, be down 100 horsepower etc etc etc.

LOL 2 horsepower and they are having a parade over those results LMAO!!!!!
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Old 06-03-2020, 06:12 PM   #423
SatinWhitePearl
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2018 Type RA #350
2019 Honda Civic Type R

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Originally Posted by NighthawkSTI View Post
LOL 2 horsepower and they are having a parade over those results LMAO!!!!!

There's no parade to be had, most are simply acknowledging that losing (anything) and increasing turbo lag with an aftermarket header isn't exactly ideal.

If you want to rumble, go ahead. If you want spend $800 to change the sound of your setup go ahead. However, don't pretend like this header isn't about sound, because it is.

The fact we've got someone willing to lose power, for sound, is the actual case in point.

You're welcome to post away about the UELH being a scaled down version of Jesus - I don't care. I don't own a WRX, or want to own a WRX, so whatever FA owners do is on them.
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Old 06-03-2020, 08:02 PM   #424
NighthawkSTI
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Originally Posted by SatinWhitePearl View Post
There's no parade to be had, most are simply acknowledging that losing (anything) and increasing turbo lag with an aftermarket header isn't exactly ideal.

If you want to rumble, go ahead. If you want spend $800 to change the sound of your setup go ahead. However, don't pretend like this header isn't about sound, because it is.

The fact we've got someone willing to lose power, for sound, is the actual case in point.

You're welcome to post away about the UELH being a scaled down version of Jesus - I don't care. I don't own a WRX, or want to own a WRX, so whatever FA owners do is on them.
its 2 horsepower...at least in this one example, of which they know nothing about the metrics of the tuning tables before and after the header install, a 2 horsepower difference would mean no advantage at least powerwise...also in a manual transmission 500 RPM shft in power curve is easily nullified by changing the shift points/launch rpm in a race.....daily driving it probably wouldntbe noticed...and certainly not 2 horsepower. I mean this is literally comical.

Start throwing more serious mods at the uelh so it can be better matched. Either way this comparison is a wash....at least on that car linked.
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Old 06-03-2020, 08:28 PM   #425
NighthawkSTI
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Originally Posted by Norm Peterson View Post
That two HP you're disparaging was the Tomei unequal vs the stock equal-length. Spend a grand to "upgrade" from the stock header and basically end up no better than running in place.

There's only one person throwing the "butt hurt" term around. All I can think of is "The hawk doth protest too much, methinks". Apologies to some English guy from the 16th century named Bill.


Norm
Eh...your getting a pretty high quality header for the money regardless of the sound or power supporting capabilities. The price is the price. And dont miss the bigger picture here again, those headers will support future bolt ons and not be a restriction...and will be better matched to an FA with full bolt ons relative to it being simply swapped for the stock header on a relatively otherwise stock FA.

...the butt hurt is over the sound of the UELH pulses.....some people just hate that sound...I honestly found it kind of lazy sounding when I would hear STI's when they first came here in 2004, they just need to be revved and then that backed up pulse sound turns into a deep roar.
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