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Old 03-11-2019, 01:20 PM   #3001
godfather2112
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I love reading these first world problems.
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Old 03-11-2019, 01:21 PM   #3002
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Originally Posted by Integra96 View Post
The hell is wrong with you?
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Originally Posted by NutBucket View Post


That's why we're all following this thread, right?


Recall the CO extra EV tax credit with the possibility (albeit getting slimmer due to the price cuts) of breaking even/making money with these transactions. It's all a game to me.
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Old 03-11-2019, 01:23 PM   #3003
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Originally Posted by Indocti Discant View Post
https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho...postcount=2413

While I'd love a Bollinger B1 or a Rivian, past experiences following companies like Aptera have taught me to ignore companies until they actually have a product on sale to the general public.
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Old 03-11-2019, 01:50 PM   #3004
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CarMax appraisal scheduled Wednesday morning. (Recall that I did buy our RAV4 EV through them--I don't exclusively waste their time.)

Online Tesla trade-in quote request submitted. If the sales adviser during my Model S test drive was correct this will come in as a super lowball quote. Nothing came back instantly.
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Old 03-11-2019, 01:53 PM   #3005
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shikataganai View Post
https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/sho...postcount=2413

While I'd love a Bollinger B1 or a Rivian, past experiences following companies like Aptera have taught me to ignore companies until they actually have a product on sale to the general public.
fair enough - though raising $1.2bn is not trivial and would likely lend credence to them actually getting a product out there.

The press is also fairly positive on them so far. I would not be surprised for them to be the #2 in EVs in NA.
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Old 03-11-2019, 02:00 PM   #3006
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Never mind

Last edited by Andy Bernard; 03-11-2019 at 02:07 PM.
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Old 03-11-2019, 02:14 PM   #3007
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Meh.

The van ultimately cost me a lesser value than depreciation alone, if I recall my calculations correctly. I still call that a win.

The Volvo, yes, I took a bath. That was a conscious decision, to be done with that car and that company for good. I'm still ok with my decision there, too.
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Old 03-11-2019, 05:39 PM   #3008
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Originally Posted by Indocti Discant View Post
It's a four motor electric so it can be made any shape they want, and yet they still made brick shaped? There have to be some Rivan designers pulling their hair out somewhere.

"We can make it look like anything, this is so freeing lets get to work. "
(work is done, designs are produced, focus groups consulted)
"And here it is, an electric Expedition with family truckster headlights!"

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Old 03-11-2019, 05:42 PM   #3009
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Originally Posted by etothen View Post
It's a four motor electric so it can be made any shape they want, and yet they still made brick shaped? There have to be some Rivan designers pulling their hair out somewhere.

"We can make it look like anything, this is so freeing lets get to work. "
(work is done, designs are produced, focus groups consulted)
"And here it is, an electric Expedition with family truckster headlights!"

That thing is a veritable jellybean compared to the Bollinger B1:

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=is...39.fyilG9vY5sk

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Old 03-11-2019, 06:15 PM   #3010
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I think the Rivian looks great. Square is space efficient.
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Old 03-11-2019, 06:53 PM   #3011
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One would assume electric cars would greatly benefit from some sort of aerodynamic features. That B1 is a cinder block on wheels.
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Old 03-11-2019, 06:53 PM   #3012
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shikataganai View Post
That thing is a veritable jellybean compared to the Bollinger B1:

https://www.google.com/search?tbm=is...39.fyilG9vY5sk

O.K., you you can design any shaped vehicle you can imagine...as long as you can make it out of these six legos.
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Old 03-11-2019, 07:10 PM   #3013
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One would assume electric cars would greatly benefit from some sort of aerodynamic features. That B1 is a cinder block on wheels.
Also easy to build, though. It does suffer in range: they claim 200 miles from 100 kWh, iirc. But in exchange you get 10" suspension travel, portal axles, and a very cool retro aesthetic. Also might get a steering wheel hub to the face: no airbags, which is allowed since GVWR (not curb weight) is just over 10k.

But as El Wray noted earlier the chances of series production of the B1 are very slim anyway.
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Old 03-11-2019, 09:05 PM   #3014
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Originally Posted by Integra96 View Post
The hell is wrong with you?
It's just another thread about making ends meet.
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Old 03-11-2019, 10:24 PM   #3015
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Originally Posted by shikataganai View Post
Online Tesla trade-in quote request submitted. If the sales adviser during my Model S test drive was correct this will come in as a super lowball quote. Nothing came back instantly.
Quote:
Originally Posted by shikataganai View Post
if any available could potentially angle for an ex-demo vehicle for an additional discount
I know y'all are waiting with bated breath, so I shall not disappoint:

Tesla indeed didn't come up with an online quote. Too new for that. I called the local Tesla Store, which apparently still has its lights on and people to answer the phone. Dude said he'd get a formal quote to me tomorrow.

(Tesla's internal quote will be a total lowball affair, I am predicting. CarMax will be the true test of whether KBB predicted values have any bearing on reality in this particular setting.)

He also said that their discounts on demo Model 3s is very low, on the order of $1/mile or the like, much lower than on demo Model Ss. So there goes that half-baked idea.
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Old 03-11-2019, 10:45 PM   #3016
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I'd take $50k. Hell, I may well take $47,250 ultimately in May, as that'd be a fair rate of depreciation as opposed to being a profit center ($407.89/mo for 5 months inclusive of the use tax paid twice on the depreciation amount).

Trade price vs depreciation per month assuming a May trade including the use tax implications:

Quote:
47250 -- (408)
47500 -- (354)
48000 -- (246)
48500 -- (138)
49000 -- (30)
49136 -- 0
49500 -- 79 of profit per month!
50000 -- 187
50500 -- 295
51000 -- 403
Updating this for 2.5 months instead of 5 months to give me a framework of what I will accept and what I will deem too low ultimately:

Trade price vs depreciation per month assuming a mid-March trade (2.5 months) including the use tax implications:

48000 -- (491)
48500 -- (275)
49000 -- (59)
49136 break even point
49500 -- 157 of profit per month
50000 -- 373

I'm going to lay it out here (to keep me honest, if nothing else) that the minimum I would accept would be $48.5k on trade, which would result in me having paid $275/month for the 2.5 months of usage from the end of December through mid-March. (Again this is inclusive of tax. Doesn't include finance charges but those wouldn't be much different.)

As with the minivan I figure even $275/mo is lower than the natural long-term rate of depreciation on a vehicle of that expense so I would call that a win. Anything higher yet (or absolute profit) would be pure gravy.
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Old 03-11-2019, 11:27 PM   #3017
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shikataganai View Post
Updating this for 2.5 months instead of 5 months to give me a framework of what I will accept and what I will deem too low ultimately:

Trade price vs depreciation per month assuming a mid-March trade (2.5 months) including the use tax implications:

48000 -- (491)
48500 -- (275)
49000 -- (59)
49136 break even point
49500 -- 157 of profit per month
50000 -- 373

I'm going to lay it out here (to keep me honest, if nothing else) that the minimum I would accept would be $48.5k on trade, which would result in me having paid $275/month for the 2.5 months of usage from the end of December through mid-March. (Again this is inclusive of tax. Doesn't include finance charges but those wouldn't be much different.)

As with the minivan I figure even $275/mo is lower than the natural long-term rate of depreciation on a vehicle of that expense so I would call that a win. Anything higher yet (or absolute profit) would be pure gravy.
What you'll accept? Strange phrasing for somone who is basically begging them to take it off of them. Andy Bernard will be absolutely stunned if anyone offers you anywhere near that. Andy Bernard will not be stunned, or even mildly surprised, if you do it anyway!
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Old 03-11-2019, 11:42 PM   #3018
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What you'll accept? Strange phrasing for somone who is basically begging them to take it off of them. Andy Bernard will be absolutely stunned if anyone offers you anywhere near that. Andy Bernard will not be stunned, or even mildly surprised, if you do it anyway!
Thus me posting it to keep myself honest. I like this current Model 3, really. It's just that I think I'd like a Performance even more.

It would hardly be the end of the world if you're right and neither Tesla nor CarMax hit my number.

Back to your earlier, self-elided post: I appreciate your concern that I'm stuck on the hedonic treadmill and am engaging in self-delusion in order to rationalize purchases along the way. (Fair summarization?) I just don't think it's a concern for me.

I'm not trying to keep up with the Joneses. I don't have grandiose plans to upgrade my house here. I derive satisfaction from much that is not material: my family, performing music at a high level, being appreciated by my peers at work.

It's just that I also like cars, and this is one of the few aspects of my life where I actually have any freedom of choice, for better or worse.
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Old 03-11-2019, 11:47 PM   #3019
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If I am reading that correctly, I would be shocked if you are offered within $900 of what you paid new.
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Old 03-11-2019, 11:59 PM   #3020
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If I am reading that correctly, I would be shocked if you are offered within $900 of what you paid new.
The only way this possibly works is because I live in CO and thus claimed an additional $5k tax credit for it (and the PacHy).

I'm counting that the national market-derived resale that CarMax will hopefully offer reflects less than $5k depreciation, as resale will already automatically reflect the Federal credit that everyone gets.
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Old 03-12-2019, 12:01 AM   #3021
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Originally Posted by shikataganai View Post

Back to your earlier, self-elided post: I appreciate your concern that I'm stuck on the hedonic treadmill and am engaging in self-delusion in order to rationalize purchases along the way. (Fair summarization?) I just don't think it's a concern for me.
I deleted what I wrote because on further reflection, it wasn't appropriate to say it in a public forum.
It's not about keeping up with the neighbors. You have documented here many times the old adage, act in haste, repent in leisure, and you keep on going back and doing the same things over and over again. The fact you don't see it and continue to rationlize these decisions is something to consider seriously.
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Old 03-12-2019, 12:05 AM   #3022
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I deleted what I wrote because on further reflection, it wasn't appropriate to say it in a public forum.
It's not about keeping up with the neighbors. You have documented here many times the old adage, act in haste, repent in leisure, and you keep on going back and doing the same things over and over again. The fact you don't see it and continue to rationlize these decisions is something to consider seriously.
I clearly push all my **** (ok, not all) in public. Perhaps this is the point in and of itself, but I don't get what you're worried about. "Act in haste, repent in leisure": I do stupid things that I regret? Well, yes. But what's the deeper concern here?
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Old 03-12-2019, 05:43 AM   #3023
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Originally Posted by shikataganai View Post
I clearly push all my **** (ok, not all) in public. Perhaps this is the point in and of itself, but I don't get what you're worried about. "Act in haste, repent in leisure": I do stupid things that I regret? Well, yes. But what's the deeper concern here?
The state of Colorado needs to go to Colorado HHS and show them on a doll where you touched their tax policy.

Last edited by etothen; 03-12-2019 at 01:00 PM.
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Old 03-12-2019, 07:06 AM   #3024
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Quote:
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If I am reading that correctly, I would be shocked if you are offered within $900 of what you paid new.
I too have a feeling there is something being overlooked and I highly doubt he comes out cost neutral or positive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy Bernard View Post
I deleted what I wrote because on further reflection, it wasn't appropriate to say it in a public forum.
It's not about keeping up with the neighbors. You have documented here many times the old adage, act in haste, repent in leisure, and you keep on going back and doing the same things over and over again. The fact you don't see it and continue to rationlize these decisions is something to consider seriously.
Who gives a **** what he does? It's his money, his decisions. If he wants to act irresponsibly with his money and make justifications for it, then let him. If were being honest here, it's no worse than him buying a brand new WRX / STi and throwing money at it by modifying it in which he will never get back. For some people, cars are their enjoyment and they go through cars very often. I don't see a reason to ridicule him.


Shik, have you verified that there is no disqualification / tax incentives owed back if a vehicle is not kept for X amount of time or tax incentive will not be applied to new vehicle if trade in vehicle was kept less than x amount of time?
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Old 03-12-2019, 09:13 AM   #3025
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He may be the reason CO discontinues the tax incentive program.
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