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Old 06-25-2020, 08:34 AM   #15876
GrundleJuice
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Definitely sounds like a chainline issue. What cranks and what is your frame’s rear spacing? What is your current chainline measurement? Depending on your specific cranks and if your rear spacing is 148mm, you should be running either a 49mm or 52mm chainline.

https://bike.shimano.com/en-US/infor...ebut-new-.html

https://www.oneupcomponents.com/page...-and-non-boost
Cranks are RF Turbine cinch. BB is CK BSA30 in a 73mm shell. Frame is a salsa Timberjack (boost spacing standard). I'll have to look into how to measure/calc chainline but I thought if the frame was boost spacing that the bb shell and rear dropouts were aligned to use boost components. My chainline, from sighting down the chain, is dead nuts straight in the 5th from the tallest gear. If it was a chainline issue I would think that the outside of the chainring teeth would be the worn/damaged part since it would be more cross chained at a shorter gear (which I don't think I've ever used the granny yet because Michigan) than in the taller gear.
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Old 06-25-2020, 09:40 AM   #15877
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Originally Posted by GrundleJuice View Post
Cranks are RF Turbine cinch. BB is CK BSA30 in a 73mm shell. Frame is a salsa Timberjack (boost spacing standard). I'll have to look into how to measure/calc chainline but I thought if the frame was boost spacing that the bb shell and rear dropouts were aligned to use boost components. My chainline, from sighting down the chain, is dead nuts straight in the 5th from the tallest gear. If it was a chainline issue I would think that the outside of the chainring teeth would be the worn/damaged part since it would be more cross chained at a shorter gear (which I don't think I've ever used the granny yet because Michigan) than in the taller gear.
measure the distance between the center of your chainring teeth to the drive side of your seat tube, then add half of the seat tube's outside diameter to that distance. that's at least my method, using calipers.

have you reviewed the RF chainline guide? looks like the recommend a 52mm chainline with 148mm rear spacing. however it also looks like there's some variation based on the crank spindle length?
https://res.cloudinary.com/fox-facto...nes_omaj5n.pdf
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Old 06-25-2020, 10:30 AM   #15878
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Originally Posted by GrundleJuice View Post
Cranks are RF Turbine cinch. BB is CK BSA30 in a 73mm shell. Frame is a salsa Timberjack (boost spacing standard). I'll have to look into how to measure/calc chainline but I thought if the frame was boost spacing that the bb shell and rear dropouts were aligned to use boost components. My chainline, from sighting down the chain, is dead nuts straight in the 5th from the tallest gear. If it was a chainline issue I would think that the outside of the chainring teeth would be the worn/damaged part since it would be more cross chained at a shorter gear (which I don't think I've ever used the granny yet because Michigan) than in the taller gear.
It should work, but I blame the chainring...as in the Race Face design is to blame.

Last edited by richde; 06-25-2020 at 11:38 AM.
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Old 06-25-2020, 12:03 PM   #15879
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Originally Posted by isotopesope View Post
measure the distance between the center of your chainring teeth to the drive side of your seat tube, then add half of the seat tube's outside diameter to that distance. that's at least my method, using calipers.

have you reviewed the RF chainline guide? looks like the recommend a 52mm chainline with 148mm rear spacing. however it also looks like there's some variation based on the crank spindle length?
https://res.cloudinary.com/fox-facto...nes_omaj5n.pdf
For some reason I was thinking that boost frames had the bb shell off center to compensate for the rear spacing but when I think about it it makes less sense than I thought. I'll have to measure things tonight.
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It should work, but I blame the chainring...as in the Race Face design is to blame.
I'm hoping that it is this and that they make it right. They were great with my past warranty issue on my wheels.
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Old 06-25-2020, 05:16 PM   #15880
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How are those working out for you?

I finally gave in to the temptation from Roka's constant Strava contests and discounts and ordered a set of Roka Matadors to replace my over five year old Oakley Racing Jackets.



I don't know if I can pull off this level of pimp, but I'll give it a shot.
Just earned that coupon today. Said 'why the f not' and jumped on the bandwagon

TL-1 Carbon black, because it was pretty much the only thing in stock in black.
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Old 06-25-2020, 08:16 PM   #15881
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measure the distance between the center of your chainring teeth to the drive side of your seat tube, then add half of the seat tube's outside diameter to that distance. that's at least my method, using calipers.

have you reviewed the RF chainline guide? looks like the recommend a 52mm chainline with 148mm rear spacing. however it also looks like there's some variation based on the crank spindle length?
https://res.cloudinary.com/fox-facto...nes_omaj5n.pdf
Just measured chain line at 51.9mm. I then crunched the numbers for my setup and crank/spindle and 52mm is what my equipment should result in for chainline, which is nominal for this boost rear spacing. So I'm pretty sure I have it about as close to nominal as one should expect.

I wonder if chain suck is just something that will happen with the Shimano 12 speed system if it's not cleaned and lubed often. I usually lube when I hear it start to get noisy or clean and lube after particularly dirty/wet rides.

Going to tear down, clean and lube and see if that changes anything.
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Old 06-25-2020, 08:18 PM   #15882
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Just measured chain line at 51.9mm. I then crunched the numbers for my setup and crank/spindle and 52mm is what my equipment should result in for chainline. So I'm pretty sure I have it about as nominal and one should expect.

I wonder is chain suck is just something that will happen with the Shimano 12 speed system if it's not cleaned and lubed often. I usually lube when I hear it start to get noisy or clean and lube after particularly dirty/wet rides.

Going to tear down, clean and lube and see if that changes anything.
You shouldn't get chainsuck unless the chain is rusted or absolutely coated with mud. Dump that ring and get an absolute black.
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Old 06-25-2020, 08:19 PM   #15883
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Just earned that coupon today. Said 'why the f not' and jumped on the bandwagon

TL-1 Carbon black, because it was pretty much the only thing in stock in black.
Should be able to try them out on Monday, I'm really curious about the quality.

Their return policy was a big part of the purchasing decision.
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Old 06-25-2020, 08:55 PM   #15884
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You shouldn't get chainsuck unless the chain is rusted or absolutely coated with mud. Dump that ring and get an absolute black.
Why? They both have Shimano HG+ tooth profiles.
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Old 06-25-2020, 09:01 PM   #15885
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Why? They both have Shimano HG+ tooth profiles.
Do they?

Were you saying you got chainsuck with that ring?
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Old 06-25-2020, 10:07 PM   #15886
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Just measured chain line at 51.9mm. I then crunched the numbers for my setup and crank/spindle and 52mm is what my equipment should result in for chainline, which is nominal for this boost rear spacing. So I'm pretty sure I have it about as close to nominal as one should expect.

I wonder if chain suck is just something that will happen with the Shimano 12 speed system if it's not cleaned and lubed often. I usually lube when I hear it start to get noisy or clean and lube after particularly dirty/wet rides.

Going to tear down, clean and lube and see if that changes anything.
Hmm, crap, yeah sounds like a good chainline measurement. So it’s wearing hard on both sides of the thick teeth or just one side? I wonder where your chainline would shift if you flipped the chainring around? Would it push it further out? Reading that OneUp chainline description, it talks in general that 51-53 is a good range for boost spacing.

It’s funny you posted about this because I’ve been needing longer cranks for my adventure bike, which is boost spacing at 148mm with 1x11... and I just ordered 11 speed boost spaced XT 8000 cranks and a OneUp boost chainring. So I’ve really been reading up on chainline ahead of this purchase. My current FSA cranks are at 51.3ish chainline.
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Old 06-25-2020, 10:08 PM   #15887
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Do they?

Were you saying you got chainsuck with that ring?
Supposedly. They market it as HG+ Shimano 12 speed compatible, there are no other instances of similar problems that I have been able to find and RF has been making excellent chainrings for decades so I have no good reason to believe the chainring is defective outside of just bad luck getting a ****ty ring or that something else is the problem. I'm leaning towards the latter.
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Old 06-25-2020, 10:42 PM   #15888
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Originally Posted by isotopesope View Post
Hmm, crap, yeah sounds like a good chainline measurement. So it’s wearing hard on both sides of the thick teeth or just one side? I wonder where your chainline would shift if you flipped the chainring around? Would it push it further out? Reading that OneUp chainline description, it talks in general that 51-53 is a good range for boost spacing.

It’s funny you posted about this because I’ve been needing longer cranks for my adventure bike, which is boost spacing at 148mm with 1x11... and I just ordered 11 speed boost spaced XT 8000 cranks and a OneUp boost chainring. So I’ve really been reading up on chainline ahead of this purchase. My current FSA cranks are at 51.3ish chainline.
Now that I have it apart and all cleaned up I took the time to look at the chainring teeth under magnification. (because R&D nerd) I think that the hard wear indications are actually just the anodizing coating worn off on the sharply machined facets of the wide teeth. If there is any base metal worn, it appears to be very little to none. I'd have to compare to a new one to be sure but I'm pretty confident. The chain still looks pretty gnarly, especially under magnification, but I'm going to re lube it and at least see what it does in the repair stand.

Side note: I've been having rear brake rotor noise after releasing the brakes after hard/sustained braking. Measured the rotors a few rides ago with a mic and got 1.62mm. 1.5mm is the published min service thickness. Performance is still good and after a few seconds (of cooling I assume) the noise dissipates so I've been letting it ride. Found a spot where the outer surface worn through and the inner aluminum core was being exposed. I assume that edge was curling from differential thermal expansion or something. These rotors are way past typical life for other rotors I've had so I'm impressed that they lasted this many miles.


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Old 06-26-2020, 01:28 AM   #15889
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Now that I have it apart and all cleaned up I took the time to look at the chainring teeth under magnification. (because R&D nerd) I think that the hard wear indications are actually just the anodizing coating worn off on the sharply machined facets of the wide teeth. If there is any base metal worn, it appears to be very little to none. I'd have to compare to a new one to be sure but I'm pretty confident. The chain still looks pretty gnarly, especially under magnification, but I'm going to re lube it and at least see what it does in the repair stand.
I have an 11sp 28t, and it seems like it makes a machiny noise, like a grind but not really. I think that noise is related to the clutch spring tension on the rear derailleur, mostly since it quiets down with it off. I plan on looking at the adjustment screw (XT.) I tried for 1 minute, I didn't understand how it works - popped the cap off and stuck a couple of different hex keys in there. I didn't know what it looked like inside so I read the fine materials.

But I never noticed it with the original 32t and it's 2 years old. I replaced the chainring, casette and chain. IIRC I spent more on the chain too.
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Old 06-26-2020, 07:04 AM   #15890
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I have an 11sp 28t, and it seems like it makes a machiny noise, like a grind but not really. I think that noise is related to the clutch spring tension on the rear derailleur, mostly since it quiets down with it off. I plan on looking at the adjustment screw (XT.) I tried for 1 minute, I didn't understand how it works - popped the cap off and stuck a couple of different hex keys in there. I didn't know what it looked like inside so I read the fine materials.

But I never noticed it with the original 32t and it's 2 years old. I replaced the chainring, casette and chain. IIRC I spent more on the chain too.
My 11spd slx was like that. Clutch on gave it a little bit more of chain/gear mesh noise. It never changed or got louder so I didn't give it much thought.

After re assembly and lube the grinding noise and chain suck issue has appeared to have gone away... For now anyway. Planning to ride today at a place with plenty of bail outs in case it comes back.
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Old 06-26-2020, 12:02 PM   #15891
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I did my first ride for endurance training on singletrack Wednesday. The trail (Applegate Lake) is 18 miles, with not much climbing (500') with 1 200' climb "the wall," with some twisty places and some road - gravel and paved. I went there because the profile is similar to the race in Bend, although less climbing at 11 miles / 1K' per loop. This ride is like 3 laps. I thought I would realistically do 2.5 hour loops. I rode the trail once before 3 years ago.

I felt faster on the second lap. Booth loops were minutes apart at about 2:40. I rested maybe 30 minutes - not much on the rides, and 15 minutes between laps. I climbed the wall once riding (it sucks, straight up, off the water the there are little bugs in your face the whole trip) and pushing My goal is endurance, not a record up a small part of the ride. I think it was 7 minutes riding and 11 minutes pushing. I was fresher at the top, and using a different set of muscles made me feel more limber, but it's a gravel ride.down hill to pavement so it's easy to recover from the climb. My time on the gravel to pavement to singletrack again on both rides was seconds apart.

I was tired at the end. Another whole lap would have been tough. For my first try, I am pretty happy with the consistency across a 2.5 hour effort. I want to to 7 loops for the event. Last time I did 5, and I quit at 10 hours. That means 2 hour loops, and starting the 7th at like t=11:55 - if you fire off a lap before the end, you get to finish it, so I could survival ride it if I really want it.

This it the ride https://www.strava.com/activities/3671563274

One thing about the ride is that the lake is LOW. What was an 3' - 8' fall into water is now like a 33' - 38' foot roll down a steep. branch covered hill to water, and there are places you are on a 2' tread and that's all there is. Not that risky, but you can ****ing see it, both to your right, and around the corners in front / across from you. It's just in your head.

Last edited by chapstien; 06-26-2020 at 12:18 PM.
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Old 06-26-2020, 12:51 PM   #15892
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That sounds like a good ride chap. I like those types of rides.

I’ve been a bit hobbled this week from stepping on a hot coal that fell out of my big green egg. First day was ok but then it blistered up and blister popped. I rode outside Monday AM, zwift tues/wed. I ended up taking the day off everything yesterday because walking sucked. Hoping to zwift again today.
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Old 06-26-2020, 01:54 PM   #15893
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Oh, and I would like to endorse Endura Extract Lite road shorts. I wear then onder baggies for long rides, and after 4.5 hours in the saddle, no butt complaints.
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Old 06-26-2020, 04:30 PM   #15894
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I did my first ride for endurance training on singletrack Wednesday. The trail (Applegate Lake) is 18 miles, with not much climbing (500') with 1 200' climb "the wall," with some twisty places and some road - gravel and paved. I went there because the profile is similar to the race in Bend, although less climbing at 11 miles / 1K' per loop. This ride is like 3 laps. I thought I would realistically do 2.5 hour loops. I rode the trail once before 3 years ago.

I felt faster on the second lap. Booth loops were minutes apart at about 2:40. I rested maybe 30 minutes - not much on the rides, and 15 minutes between laps. I climbed the wall once riding (it sucks, straight up, off the water the there are little bugs in your face the whole trip) and pushing My goal is endurance, not a record up a small part of the ride. I think it was 7 minutes riding and 11 minutes pushing. I was fresher at the top, and using a different set of muscles made me feel more limber, but it's a gravel ride.down hill to pavement so it's easy to recover from the climb. My time on the gravel to pavement to singletrack again on both rides was seconds apart.

I was tired at the end. Another whole lap would have been tough. For my first try, I am pretty happy with the consistency across a 2.5 hour effort. I want to to 7 loops for the event. Last time I did 5, and I quit at 10 hours. That means 2 hour loops, and starting the 7th at like t=11:55 - if you fire off a lap before the end, you get to finish it, so I could survival ride it if I really want it.

This it the ride https://www.strava.com/activities/3671563274

One thing about the ride is that the lake is LOW. What was an 3' - 8' fall into water is now like a 33' - 38' foot roll down a steep. branch covered hill to water, and there are places you are on a 2' tread and that's all there is. Not that risky, but you can ****ing see it, both to your right, and around the corners in front / across from you. It's just in your head.
What were you doing for nutrition vs. what are you planning on for the race?

What kind of aid station support is there?
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Old 06-26-2020, 09:28 PM   #15895
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15 miles of dusty singletrack and shifting was flawless, no noise and no chain suck. If lubing more often is the cost of shimano 12spd working well, meh. Could be worse. Hopefully it's something that won't occur again and I'll just never know.
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Old 06-27-2020, 05:36 PM   #15896
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I put the wolftooth 30t on the bike. Had to shorten the chain by one full link because derailleur was not applying any tension while uncompressed in the 10t cog. I hope I can swap the 32t back on without this chain being too short if I need to or go to lower altitude/less steep climbs. If not no big deal I suppose I will just have to have one chain for each ring - doubtful I’ll swap often.

In a quick test the eagle gear is a lot more eagle-ey so it should be nice to have both the lower low gear but ability to use 2-3 gears down low vs 1-2. I don’t expect I’ll miss the top end very frequently.
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Old 06-28-2020, 01:36 AM   #15897
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What were you doing for nutrition vs. what are you planning on for the race?

What kind of aid station support is there?
I am working that out. I usually eat big the last meal of the day before, The race starts at 10 so I will probabaly have whole grain hot cereal (it will be cold in the am, hot in the afternoon, ) fruit, honey and a egg at 7.

On this ride, that's about my breakfast, and I had a banana and protein bar 1/2 hour before starting. I carry protein bars, dried fruit, cliff bars, stinger, cut apples. Not always all that, but that sort of stuff with protein, sugar and both, and stop to eat about every 1/2 hour. I need about 700 calories per loop. I make a concentrated electrolyte sports drink I put in a water bottle in the cage, and carry a bladder - I use at least a liter per loop

I stopped at my car, rested and had an orange. For the race, I will have a campsite, and a table with a cooler with water and food, sandwiches, fruit or whatever, and probably a thermal bottle of coffee. I will stop on each loop so I spend about 1:45 per lap. I will probably have 2 laps in the dark, so those will probably be slower, for one, I'll be tired and pretty careful.
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Old 06-28-2020, 04:57 PM   #15898
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Went on a not-early-after-all Mountain Lion loop this morning. Did 55 minutes last night on the Peloton, mostly zone 2-4 but with a few bursts (eg 475W x 15 seconds).

That plus being fasted 14.5 hours meant I started the ride at least feeling glycogen depleted. I noticed it immediately, from the first burst of energy required to climb the section out of the parking lot!

Thus I stuck to the loop itself, nothing extra. Zone 2 on climbs, and dabbed and thus pushed up the last two switchbacks (loose slate one and the steep, loose, rooty one).

Last edited by shikataganai; 06-28-2020 at 05:28 PM.
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Old 06-28-2020, 05:02 PM   #15899
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I was just having the thought “I wonder if I should do zwift now if I’m gonna go ride at 6”

I had been leaning toward no, your post reinforces that. I may do a quick neignborhood loop around the lake with the kids in a bit.

I am thinking I’ll do Hall Ranch in the morning, hoping for enough time to do two loops of Nelson up too. I’m going to shoot for a 6am start.
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Old 06-29-2020, 12:21 PM   #15900
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I rode Valmont bike park last Friday after a long camping trip. Great spot for kids to work on skills and hasn't been too busy.

I was feeling good and decided to try a new line on the Slopestyle, the boner log. Unfortunately I misjudged speed and came up short and cased petty badly. I held on and rolled out no problem but the impact was so great as it's probably an 8ft drop that I had a pretty bad whiplash event. Enough to rattle my brain a bit. I'll call it what it was, a moderate to mild brain injury but it's been enough that my head feels sensitive and just not quite right. This is really the first brain trauma I've experienced and it's not fun and I know this is pretty mild on the spectrum. No memory issues and I feel pretty normal. After the hit I went to the car and took a break but did actually go back and ride the feature successfully 3-4 more times.

I've been taking things really easy and will do a soft pedal today. No real mountain biking for at least 7 days I think.

Found a pic
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