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Old 02-19-2013, 02:23 PM   #1301
VpointVick
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silver arrow View Post
Let me rephrase. I'm not an avid enough rider that I'm going to spend 4-10k on a bike, so what would be some reasonable improvements to the 4300. The fork doesn't seem to really dampen a whole lot. Can I soften it more than the stock settings allow? Is there a good fork that I should look for used or on sale that would be worth it?
You don't need to spend that to be on a quality ride, but I would say that you'd need to figure on about $2500 new, but buy used and let someone else take the depreciation hit.

Upgrades like you're talking about are huge wastes of money, and can also result in some pretty role confused rides.
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Old 02-19-2013, 02:28 PM   #1302
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silver arrow View Post
Let me rephrase. I'm not an avid enough rider that I'm going to spend 4-10k on a bike, so what would be some reasonable improvements to the 4300. The fork doesn't seem to really dampen a whole lot. Can I soften it more than the stock settings allow? Is there a good fork that I should look for used or on sale that would be worth it?
How much static sag does the fork have with you on the bike? I can't imagine a low end fork having too much factory preload, and there's also a limit of how much a fork can isolate the rider. The advantage of better suspension is better damping, but that's not the issue you're having problems with.

It's probably your tires that give the harsh feeling, what kind of pressure are you running? Bad technique and line selection can make just about any trail rough as well.

When it comes down to it any upgrade is going to run a few (as in three) hundred bucks, which is well on the way to a new complete bike.
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Old 02-19-2013, 03:09 PM   #1303
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$300 bucks is not very far into buying a $2500+ bike.

Here's the issue. I have lowered the tire pressures and that helped some. I ride on trails with a lot of ruts and tree roots on the trail. Even with the front fork set to the softest setting, it just hits and doesn't compress. I know it doesn't compress because I put a zip tie around it semi loosely to measure the compression. Now if I put all of my weight on the handlebars and compress straight down, it does compress, but not while riding.

http://www.mtbr.com/cat/older-catego...5_1546crx.aspx

It appears to be an OEM version on this shock, which from what I've just read in the comments sound EXACTLY like what I'm complaining about.

I just want a reasonably priced (either new or used) alternative with a less preload and a smoother ride or if I can modify this one to have less preload. I'm willing to spend up to $400.
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Old 02-19-2013, 03:16 PM   #1304
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You also said that you wanted to do a wheelset, that's another $300. Six hundred is a hell of a long way into a decent used bike.
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Old 02-19-2013, 03:23 PM   #1305
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Originally Posted by VpointVick View Post
You also said that you wanted to do a wheelset, that's another $300. Six hundred is a hell of a long way into a decent used bike.
It was more question than intent. It appears that the front suspension my bike came with is heavy and crappy. I might be able to kill 2 birds with one stone and make it ride better and make it lighter in one step.

So, what front fork would be a good new, on sale, or used around $400 or less?
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Old 02-19-2013, 03:31 PM   #1306
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I have an old Marzocchi Monster on my downhill rig that I would like to upgrade cause it is so heavy but damned if it ain't the smoothest fork I have ever experienced and for the price of an "upgrade" I might as well get a used demo with a boxxer on it.
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Old 02-19-2013, 03:45 PM   #1307
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Originally Posted by silver arrow View Post
$300 bucks is not very far into buying a $2500+ bike.

Here's the issue. I have lowered the tire pressures and that helped some. I ride on trails with a lot of ruts and tree roots on the trail. Even with the front fork set to the softest setting, it just hits and doesn't compress. I know it doesn't compress because I put a zip tie around it semi loosely to measure the compression. Now if I put all of my weight on the handlebars and compress straight down, it does compress, but not while riding.

http://www.mtbr.com/cat/older-catego...5_1546crx.aspx

It appears to be an OEM version on this shock, which from what I've just read in the comments sound EXACTLY like what I'm complaining about.

I just want a reasonably priced (either new or used) alternative with a less preload and a smoother ride or if I can modify this one to have less preload. I'm willing to spend up to $400.
I'd try having a shop look at it, because it shouldn't do that...and one of the reviewers had the same problem as you.

Wait, does it have a lockout, because it would do exactly what you're describing.

Upgrading is such a slippery slope, ugh.
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:22 PM   #1308
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Originally Posted by phunkeeHomosapien View Post
I have an old Marzocchi Monster on my downhill rig that I would like to upgrade cause it is so heavy but damned if it ain't the smoothest fork I have ever experienced and for the price of an "upgrade" I might as well get a used demo with a boxxer on it.
Off season boxxer world cups and fox 49s go for 1kish new
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:43 PM   #1309
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Originally Posted by silver arrow View Post
$300 bucks is not very far into buying a $2500+ bike.

Here's the issue. I have lowered the tire pressures and that helped some. I ride on trails with a lot of ruts and tree roots on the trail. Even with the front fork set to the softest setting, it just hits and doesn't compress. I know it doesn't compress because I put a zip tie around it semi loosely to measure the compression. Now if I put all of my weight on the handlebars and compress straight down, it does compress, but not while riding.

http://www.mtbr.com/cat/older-catego...5_1546crx.aspx

It appears to be an OEM version on this shock, which from what I've just read in the comments sound EXACTLY like what I'm complaining about.

I just want a reasonably priced (either new or used) alternative with a less preload and a smoother ride or if I can modify this one to have less preload. I'm willing to spend up to $400.
Oh for ****'s sake people.

It's a ****ty suntour fork or something like that, right?

Buy a used rockshox tora (preferrably air) for like $150 (or maybe even less!), and you'll be fine. Yeah, the bike will still be heavy, but that just means you'll get stronger.

Then, think about saving for a quality bike. How much depends on what kind of bike you want to get (HT 29er, Full Suspension, etc.)


EDIT: Can someone confim that the rockshox XC replaces the Tora? If so, a 32mm stanchioned version of that, in say solo air. if anything like the Tora, it will be inexpensive but highly functional. unlike your suntour.
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Old 02-19-2013, 04:47 PM   #1310
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silver arrow View Post
$300 bucks is not very far into buying a $2500+ bike.

Here's the issue. I have lowered the tire pressures and that helped some. I ride on trails with a lot of ruts and tree roots on the trail. Even with the front fork set to the softest setting, it just hits and doesn't compress. I know it doesn't compress because I put a zip tie around it semi loosely to measure the compression. Now if I put all of my weight on the handlebars and compress straight down, it does compress, but not while riding.

http://www.mtbr.com/cat/older-catego...5_1546crx.aspx

It appears to be an OEM version on this shock, which from what I've just read in the comments sound EXACTLY like what I'm complaining about.

I just want a reasonably priced (either new or used) alternative with a less preload and a smoother ride or if I can modify this one to have less preload. I'm willing to spend up to $400.
Your best bet would probably be a Fox Float. Just find the correct travel. They've been made in everything from 80mm-150mm over the years. Unless it's changed, yours is in the 100mm range.

You need to also make sure it's a 9mm quick release, not QR15 or 20.

And you need to make sure the steer tube hasn't been cut so that it's too short for your frame. If you measure the length from where the fork meets the head tube up to the top of the stem, that's the length you need at a minimum.

Also, your steer tube is probably 1 1/8" so a "tapered" steer tube fork will not work for you.

The positive side of all that is that the options you require are generally less expensive. You could probably pull one off ebay in the $200-$250 range. A rebuild at your local bike shop is in the $75 range, so you could have a functionally new fork for well under $400.

One big consideration I almost forgot is your braking system. almost all modern forks are disc only. If you have V-brakes, it will make finding a fork significantly more difficult. If this is the case, then you should have your current fork serviced, save up some money, and scour craigslist for used bikes.

Although, I did just find this one on ebay to support v-brakes: Fox Float 100 RLC
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Old 02-19-2013, 05:37 PM   #1311
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Originally Posted by Shavenyak View Post
Your best bet would probably be a Fox Float. Just find the correct travel. They've been made in everything from 80mm-150mm over the years. Unless it's changed, yours is in the 100mm range.

You need to also make sure it's a 9mm quick release, not QR15 or 20.

And you need to make sure the steer tube hasn't been cut so that it's too short for your frame. If you measure the length from where the fork meets the head tube up to the top of the stem, that's the length you need at a minimum.

Also, your steer tube is probably 1 1/8" so a "tapered" steer tube fork will not work for you.

The positive side of all that is that the options you require are generally less expensive. You could probably pull one off ebay in the $200-$250 range. A rebuild at your local bike shop is in the $75 range, so you could have a functionally new fork for well under $400.

One big consideration I almost forgot is your braking system. almost all modern forks are disc only. If you have V-brakes, it will make finding a fork significantly more difficult. If this is the case, then you should have your current fork serviced, save up some money, and scour craigslist for used bikes.

Although, I did just find this one on ebay to support v-brakes: Fox Float 100 RLC
I would posit that a float is way too nice of a fork for a 4300. There are cheaper options that will perform almost as well, if not equally well. (But heavier)
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Old 02-19-2013, 05:41 PM   #1312
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Originally Posted by laxman2001 View Post

Oh for ****'s sake people.

It's a ****ty suntour fork or something like that, right?

Buy a used rockshox tora (preferrably air) for like $150 (or maybe even less!), and you'll be fine. Yeah, the bike will still be heavy, but that just means you'll get stronger.

Then, think about saving for a quality bike. How much depends on what kind of bike you want to get (HT 29er, Full Suspension, etc.)

EDIT: Can someone confim that the rockshox XC replaces the Tora? If so, a 32mm stanchioned version of that, in say solo air. if anything like the Tora, it will be inexpensive but highly functional. unlike your suntour.
Thank you. That's exactly what I'm looking for.
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Old 02-19-2013, 05:43 PM   #1313
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also: pinkbike has some of the best deals on bike parts, and a good selection. But be careful as it's full of 13 year olds.


For example: here's a 100mm fox with both disc tabs mounts for v-brakes, and a full length steerer, for $250
http://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/1274703/

another one:http://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/1273271/ (short steerer)
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Old 02-19-2013, 05:46 PM   #1314
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Quote:
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Thank you. That's exactly what I'm looking for.
I try.

Helps that at as I think I mentioned I rocked a Giant Rincon (I paid $400 new), with nothing but a tora bought for $100 on craigslist, clipless pedals, and a different seat for a year just fine. Worked pretty damn well actually.
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Old 02-19-2013, 05:55 PM   #1315
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Quote:
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Thank you. That's exactly what I'm looking for.
Except the ones he later shows are $250, not $150.

I would really take the advice of others here and just ride it as is until you can put more $$ towards a new/used bike. You can get better everything for $500-$750 with a used bike. If you could sell yours for $200 and put the $300 or so you were willing to spend towards a new/used bike you'd be much better off.

You are going to recoup $0 of anything you spend on the 4300 when/if you decide to sell it.
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:16 PM   #1316
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I would posit that a float is way too nice of a fork for a 4300. There are cheaper options that will perform almost as well, if not equally well. (But heavier)
Yes, I agree, but I was looking primarily at his price range.

Quote:
Originally Posted by laxman2001 View Post
also: pinkbike has some of the best deals on bike parts, and a good selection. But be careful as it's full of 13 year olds.


For example: here's a 100mm fox with both disc tabs mounts for v-brakes, and a full length steerer, for $250
http://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/1274703/

another one:http://www.pinkbike.com/buysell/1273271/ (short steerer)
Of which you found examples
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Old 02-19-2013, 06:44 PM   #1317
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Except the ones he later shows are $250, not $150.

I would really take the advice of others here and just ride it as is until you can put more $$ towards a new/used bike. You can get better everything for $500-$750 with a used bike. If you could sell yours for $200 and put the $300 or so you were willing to spend towards a new/used bike you'd be much better off.

You are going to recoup $0 of anything you spend on the 4300 when/if you decide to sell it.
I plan on riding it for the next few years, so the fact that the front fork is terrible is a big deal to me.
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Old 02-19-2013, 07:10 PM   #1318
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Quote:
Originally Posted by laxman2001 View Post
pay the $ for a chest mount. Worth it.


And go ride farlow gap for me please, I miss it so much.
I ordered one today

Quote:
Originally Posted by laxman2001 View Post
Oh for ****'s sake people.

It's a ****ty suntour fork or something like that, right?

Buy a used rockshox tora (preferrably air) for like $150 (or maybe even less!), and you'll be fine. Yeah, the bike will still be heavy, but that just means you'll get stronger.

Then, think about saving for a quality bike. How much depends on what kind of bike you want to get (HT 29er, Full Suspension, etc.)


EDIT: Can someone confim that the rockshox XC replaces the Tora? If so, a 32mm stanchioned version of that, in say solo air. if anything like the Tora, it will be inexpensive but highly functional. unlike your suntour.
I had a Tora on my on my old bike that I bought used. Granted I think I broke the lock out hitting some hard stuff with it on by accident, but the internal rebound damper failed too. And that takes a full rebuild to fix. The shock still worked but it wasn't really adjustable at all and was noisy as hell at the end.

You are right that it's miles better than a Suntour or something like that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by silver arrow View Post
I plan on riding it for the next few years, so the fact that the front fork is terrible is a big deal to me.
If you did the fork only with something like this (I'm assuming 100mm travel is what you need but you need to check that) http://www.jensonusa.com/Bicycle-Sus...-26-100mm-Fork You'd probably be fine for some basic riding.


I agree with richde though, and only because I've done it, upgrading a heavy older bike just is a lot of money you end up putting in that you'll never see again. For $600 you can get a new hardtail of decent quality, or for $1500 a new full suspension. Or you can browse craigslist for something in between.
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Old 02-19-2013, 07:25 PM   #1319
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I plan on riding it for the next few years, so the fact that the front fork is terrible is a big deal to me.
I feel this way too.

"Ride it until it breaks" is sorta good advice, but then you're riding on ****ty equipment for months or years. The fork on my entry level 29er is garbage and the closest trail to me is solely comprised of roots, meaning I don't like riding the bike that much.

If I had sprung for the $1500 bike, would I have a much better biking experience? I dunno, probably. But my wife nearly shat her woman pants when I told her I spent $750 on a bike.

At this point, I'm thinking I either spend the $300 for a halfway decent fork and see how I like it, or sell the bike and get a road bike. I live in Tampa, so maybe a "mountain" bike wasn't the smartest idea anyway.
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Old 02-19-2013, 07:39 PM   #1320
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I rode for 15yrs on entry level bikes. When I finally broke down and bought a mid level bike all I could think was, "Whoa... I really should've done this 10yrs ago." I've ridden my current bike harder and many more times than my previous ones and had way less(read: none) problems. Ie: I've rode more in the last year than in the 5 yrs prior. It really is that big of a difference. Just more food for thought if you want to get semi serious about it.
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Old 02-19-2013, 07:39 PM   #1321
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I plan on riding it for the next few years, so the fact that the front fork is terrible is a big deal to me.
Then do yourself a favor and get the Fox Float laxman2001 () and I were recommending. You'll appreciate the extra quality and tuneability compared to other options.
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Old 02-19-2013, 09:46 PM   #1322
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To me if I'm on a cheap bike it'll be a SS rigid 29er. I've never been truly happy with the way stuf flike forks and components are on a 500-1k bike and they aren't worth upgrading much. I foresee my stable being the monocog and my scalpel for a long time. I've got a rockhopper that I'll probably hang on to for towing the kids trailer.
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Old 02-19-2013, 09:50 PM   #1323
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More thoughts:

1. Duster: Sorry you had a bad experience, stuff like that is never fun. My tora treated me very well, and might be still running. I ended up giving it to a friend as my bike was converted into a commuter that was going to be locked up outside, then he sold it.

2. I do agree that in the long term you should look at a nicer bike, even if it's something like a $1000-$1500 hardtail. Way lighter frame, slx or better components, a real fork, and better wheels are without question worth it. That said, I recognize that a high-quality bike costs a significant chunk of change, and that you can't go spend cash like that all willy-nilly. So making your current ride bearable for a while makes a lot of sense in my mind. I happen to think a non-crappy (not good, but non-crappy) fork is the best way to do that.

3. Tora vs Fox (or an older SiD I guess): the latter will be nicer, but more expensive, which you really don't need. A lot of that extra money (not all, but a lot) goes towards lightness. Which you shouldn't care about with your bike. But, if you're only going to use it a year or so the nice forks generally hold their value much better. I always prefer spending less now if possible. Counting on resale can be a risky proposition.

4. I would also say that whatever you decide I highly recommend an air fork. They're easier to get dialed for your weight and riding style, and of course lighter. I like coil on my DH bike, but there's a reason the only 100mm coil forks are cheap.
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Old 02-19-2013, 11:22 PM   #1324
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3. Tora vs Fox (or an older SiD I guess): the latter will be nicer, but more expensive, which you really don't need. A lot of that extra money (not all, but a lot) goes towards lightness. Which you shouldn't care about with your bike. But, if you're only going to use it a year or so the nice forks generally hold their value much better. I always prefer spending less now if possible. Counting on resale can be a risky proposition.
It's not just weight, everything about them is just a little bit better. Fox coming into the market made everybody step it up a notch.

The first thing I would do in SA's case is have a shop look at it, it sounds like the lockout is engaged when it shouldn't be. $50 is better than $100-200 for the next step of an affordable used fork. Pay close attention to steerer tube diameter and length if you do that, btw.

And hey, if you really like biking and plan to make a real hobby of it, you can feel more free to spend more and get more.
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Old 02-20-2013, 12:26 AM   #1325
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It's not just weight, everything about them is just a little bit better. Fox coming into the market made everybody step it up a notch.
yeah. a little. not a lot. of course I went from a fox to a revelation and love it.
The first thing I would do in SA's case is have a shop look at it, it sounds like the lockout is engaged when it shouldn't be. $50 is better than $100-200 for the next step of an affordable used fork. Pay close attention to steerer tube diameter and length if you do that, btw.
still gonna be a suntour man. wasn't good to start with and it's just gonna break again. (my opinion, of course)
And hey, if you really like biking and plan to make a real hobby of it, you can feel more free to spend more and get more.
agreed
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